Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

[free spirit]

Depends on whether or not the person in question is addicted to the act.
If not, then no. It neither harms the person nor others.

Sin has nothing to do with addiction or harming others.

I know you disagree with me. I respect that. But all the "reasons" you've provided have been vague and unsupported. So I ask you to provide a definite reason that relates only to the act itself.

Yes i will provide a definite reason.

I have no intention of changing your mind. That would be as useless as you trying to change mine. But I want to know why.

I wish to change your mind because is a question of life and death. Your eternal life is at stake here.
The homosexual act is a sin because it is offensive to God: because it goes against his ordained order of things. End of story.
It is not my idea or law, so you agree with God or you do not. any other argument is useless because God will not change his mind.

 

[Riverwolf]

I wish to change your mind because is a question of life and death. Your eternal life is at stake here.

It will not work. If the prophecy is literal, then hell looks more appealing, anyway. I'd rather be as good a person as I can and burn for it than serve a deva and be rewarded with celestial pleasures.

The homosexual act is a sin because it is offensive to God: because it goes against his ordained order of things. End of story.

Why is it offensive to God? Why does he care?

It is not my idea or law, so you agree with God or you do not. any other argument is useless because God will not change his mind.

God can't change his mind because God does not have a mind to change.

 

[free spirit]

It will not work. If the prophecy is literal, then hell looks more appealing, anyway. I'd rather be as good a person as I can and burn for it than serve a deva and be rewarded with celestial pleasures.



Why is it offensive to God? Why does he care?



God can't change his mind because God does not have a mind to change.

your pipes are all clogged up you need a good dose of caster oil, to clean you out; unless you do that you will never understand, but you are happy to burn or you will be placed into the outer darkness, is up to you. But remember this, there is no love in hell.

 

[tumbleweed41]

But remember this, there is no love in hell.

If those who love, are sent to hell for that love.....hell will a beautiful place.

 

[Riverwolf]

your pipes are all clogged up you need a good dose of caster oil, to clean you out; unless you do that you will never understand, but you are happy to burn or you will be placed into the outer darkness, is up to you. But remember this, there is no love in hell.

Not from others.

But if there's love from myself, that's good enough. I'll have you know that I'll hold no grudge against God if I burn in hell. But I'd reject the city of gold if I go to heaven; I have no desire for it.

Anyway, you have not given an answer, which yet again tells me that you don't have one.

So I'll give you one, instead.

Homosexual acts do not cause reproduction, which is the only purpose of sex. Since that is the case, homosexual acts are only committed out of lust and carnal desire.

Am I right so far?

If so, then it should be factual that people aren't born homosexual, but that they are all heterosexual purposefully rebelling against God by being homosexual.

How am I doing?

The only reason they'd do this is because of Satan's trickery, who is behind the entire homosexual rights movement, as well as tricking me and everybody else who doesn't agree with God.

So... how'd I do?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Not from others.

But if there's love from myself, that's good enough. I'll have you know that I'll hold no grudge against God if I burn in hell. But I'd reject the city of gold if I go to heaven; I have no desire for it.

Anyway, you have not given an answer, which yet again tells me that you don't have one.

So I'll give you one, instead.

Homosexual acts do not cause reproduction, which is the only purpose of sex. Since that is the case, homosexual acts are only committed out of lust and carnal desire.

Am I right so far?

If so, then it should be factual that people aren't born homosexual, but that they are all heterosexual purposefully rebelling against God by being homosexual.

How am I doing?

The only reason they'd do this is because of Satan's trickery, who is behind the entire homosexual rights movement, as well as tricking me and everybody else who doesn't agree with God.

So... how'd I do?

And what about those who are hetero but are having sex for the purpose of having sex and not for reproduction....???? I guess that's a "sin" too.

 

[Riverwolf]

And what about those who are hetero but are having sex for the purpose of having sex and not for reproduction....???? I guess that's a "sin" too.

In Free Spirit's mind, I'm sure that's the case.

In my opinion, for the spiritual aspirant, who wishes complete Union with God, one has to renounce ALL attachment to fleeting pleasure which is here today and gone tomorrow. (This is something I am currently unable to do. )

I don't believe there is a hellfire awaiting those who do not wish for such a Union, or who attempt such a Union via pleasurable actions, like sex. It's simply another method, and I do not know whether or not it will lead to God.

 

[free spirit]

Not from others.
But if there's love from myself, that's good enough. I'll have you know that I'll hold no grudge against God if I burn in hell. But I'd reject the city of gold if I go to heaven; I have no desire for it.

in hell there is no love at all, because love is from God, no, not even your own love.

Anyway, you have not given an answer, which yet again tells me that you don't have one.

Yes I have, that is proof that you must be spiritually blind.
So I'll give you one, instead.

Homosexual acts do not cause reproduction, which is the only purpose of sex. Since that is the case, homosexual acts are only committed out of lust and carnal desire.

Am I right so far?

If so, then it should be factual that people aren't born homosexual, but that they are all heterosexual purposefully rebelling against God by being homosexual.

How am I doing?

The only reason they'd do this is because of Satan's trickery, who is behind the entire homosexual rights movement, as well as tricking me and everybody else who doesn't agree with God.

So... how'd I do?

[/QUOTE]
You should apply for a script writer in holly Wood.

 

[free spirit]

In Free Spirit's mind, I'm sure that's the case.

No it is not.

In my opinion, for the spiritual aspirant, who wishes complete Union with God, one has to renounce ALL attachment to fleeting pleasure which is here today and gone tomorrow. (This is something I am currently unable to do. )

You forget that was God who created this body the way it is; Yes those who are called to be coworkers with the Lord are required to forgo the pleasure of the flesh. But the rest of believers can enjoy what the world has to offer, but caring to keeping their conscience blameless.

I don't believe there is a hellfire awaiting those who do not wish for such a Union, or who attempt such a Union via pleasurable actions, like sex. It's simply another method, and I do not know whether or not it will lead to God.

The abuses and perversions are the things to avoid.

 

[free spirit]

If those who love, are sent to hell for that love.....hell will a beautiful place.

Hell a beautiful place!... some people has strange tastes. But hey each to his own.

 

[Riverwolf]

in hell there is no love at all, because love is from God, no, not even your own love.

If I cannot love either, then I won't exist, either. So it will be simply an eternal dreamless sleep. I'm fine with that.

Yes I have, that is proof that you must be spiritually blind.

Am I? Or do I just not fully understand YOU'RE version of it?

You should apply for a script writer in holly Wood.

Ironic. I want to be a film director. ^_^ But NOT in Hollywood; they don't know anything about how to make movies anymore...

So, Teacher, enlighten me, then. Your Teacher is Christ; surely, as is written, you can open my eyes just as Christ did?

 

[Riverwolf]

No it is not.

Really? So people can have sex all they want?

You forget that was God who created this body the way it is; Yes those who are called to be coworkers with the Lord are required to forgo the pleasure of the flesh. But the rest of believers can enjoy what the world has to offer, but caring to keeping their conscience blameless.

...
...
...
...
...


...

...whatever.

The abuses and perversions are the things to avoid.

Abuses are addictions. I fail to see how ANY of the sexual actions are perversions if they are done out of pure love.

 

[free spirit]

If I cannot love either, then I won't exist, either. So it will be simply an eternal dreamless sleep. I'm fine with that.

No, You know good and evil now, but then you will be left just with the evil, not a companion that I would choose.

Am I? Or do I just not fully understand YOU'RE version of it?

You just confirmed what I said, Because the light of understanding is the godly vision; so no understanding no vision, in other words blind.

Ironic. I want to be a film director. ^_^ But NOT in Hollywood; they don't know anything about how to make movies anymore...

Nevertheless your imagination has potential

So, Teacher, enlighten me, then. Your Teacher is Christ; surely, as is written, you can open my eyes just as Christ did?[/

I cannot open your eyes, only Christ can do that, But Christ requires that you are hungry for it, in other words you have to make the decision to repent, and ask for his mercy. only after that you will be able to understand the words of his servants.

 

[free spirit]

Really? So people can have sex all they want?

I find nothing wrong with godly sex or as God ordained it.

Abuses are addictions. I fail to see how ANY of the sexual actions are perversions if they are done out of pure love.

You are confusing lusts of the flesh with love; The lasts of the flesh will die if the other person will not respond to the advances.
Pure love makes no demands on the other.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, You know good and evil now, but then you will be left just with the evil, not a companion that I would choose.

Funny. I never read anything like that in the Bible.

You just confirmed what I said, Because the light of understanding is the godly vision; so no understanding no vision, in other words blind.

How you see God is not how others see God.

I cannot open your eyes, only Christ can do that, But Christ requires that you are hungry for it, in other words you have to make the decision to repent, and ask for his mercy. only after that you will be able to understand the words of his servants.

Believe me; I am hungry for knowledge and realization of God. But what you've been demonstrating isn't realization of God, but following ancient dogmas and cultural laws that are FAR outdated.

You yourself said that Truth is eternal. I agree. But Truth in the Bible is summarized in the Sermon on the Mount, not Paul's letters.

 

[Riverwolf]

I find nothing wrong with godly sex or as God ordained it.

...
You mean as Paul ordained it? As far as I know, God never said anything about sex; that's for us to talk about.

You are confusing lusts of the flesh with love; The lasts of the flesh will die if the other person will not respond to the advances.

Pure love makes no demands on the other.

I'm not disagreeing with you; I agree. I'm also trying to say that homosexual love can have this love.

It is completely wrong to think that homosexual love is incapable of this kind of love, or that sexual actions some find unattractive or repulsive is nothing but the lust of the flesh, because to others, it is an expression of love.

 

[free spirit]

Funny. I never read anything like that in the Bible.

Not every details are written in the bible

How you see God is not how others see God.

To see = understanding For we read in Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the holy one is understanding." Therefore before you can understand you need to acquire the beginning of wisdom.

Believe me; I am hungry for knowledge and realization of God. But what you've been demonstrating isn't realization of God, but following ancient dogmas and cultural laws that are FAR outdated.

If you are hungry for knowledge and serious about learning start from the beginning, these dogmas and laws are only the apprentice stage as it were, you need to learn them before you can move on.

You yourself said that Truth is eternal. I agree. But Truth in the Bible is summarized in the Sermon on the Mount, not Paul's letters.

Because “Truth” in God’s eyes is not only that which is contrary to falsehood, but it is also a state of existence, therefore, the day will come when only “Truth” will exist in eternity. Then we can confidently say that“Truth” is a state of unchanging holiness, the essence of God to which we by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ have become partakers.

In John 14 – 6, Jesus said, “I am the ‘Way’, the ‘Truth’, and the ‘Life’; no one comes to the father, but through me”. Yes!
He is the “Way” because we must follow the footsteps of his earthly life = repentance
He is the “Truth” because he is the embodiment of unchanging holiness = God
He is also the “Life” because he is the eternal Word = life

 

[free spirit]

...

You mean as Paul ordained it? As far as I know, God never said anything about sex; that's for us to talk about.

God created male and female; so God created sex. Paul is only exposing the order of things; because God is a God of order.

I'm not disagreeing with you; I agree. I'm also trying to say that homosexual love can have this love.

Yes, but when you mix true love with homosexual sex you destroy it. so you can love anyone male or female friend without sex.

It is completely wrong to think that homosexual love is incapable of this kind of love, or that sexual actions some find unattractive or repulsive is nothing but the lust of the flesh, because to others, it is an expression of love.

It is love gone astray.

 

[Riverwolf]

Not every details are written in the bible

Then it's purely your opinion.

To see = understanding For we read in Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the holy one is understanding." Therefore before you can understand you need to acquire the beginning of wisdom.

Right, but "fear" is a HORRIBLE word to use in this context. Why fear God? I can understand being afraid of volcano gods, but the Supreme Reality? There's nothing to be afraid of.

How about we replace "fear" with "love?" Because when you love God, you automatically love everybody.

If you are hungry for knowledge and serious about learning start from the beginning, these dogmas and laws are only the apprentice stage as it were, you need to learn them before you can move on.

That was long ago, and we've moved past them. It's been time for a deeper understanding for a while.

Because “Truth” in God’s eyes is not only that which is contrary to falsehood, but it is also a state of existence, therefore, the day will come when only “Truth” will exist in eternity. Then we can confidently say that“Truth” is a state of unchanging holiness, the essence of God to which we by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ have become partakers.

Okay, first of all, God doesn't have a point of view; if he did, he'd be another creation and therefore one of the lesser gods underneath the Supreme Reality.

Second of all, the original concept of "holy" was synonymous with "separate." If separateness became all-pervading, it would no longer be separate, which means it would no longer be holy. So "unchanging holiness" is impossible. Therefore a better word to use would probably be "good." I would still disagree, but it would make sense.

In John 14 – 6, Jesus said, “I am the ‘Way’, the ‘Truth’, and the ‘Life’; no one comes to the father, but through me”. Yes!

He is the “Way” because we must follow the footsteps of his earthly life = repentance
He is the “Truth” because he is the embodiment of unchanging holiness = God
He is also the “Life” because he is the eternal Word = life

How about, he contains the Truth, which is the Way to Life?

And "logos" doesn't translate to "life," by the way. (Neither does it translate very well to "word," so I've heard.) It seems to be a word that has no direct equivalent in English, and should therefore be used as-is, in my opinion, as a word to meditate on.

 

[Riverwolf]

God created male and female; so God created sex. Paul is only exposing the order of things; because God is a God of order.

Yes, but when you mix true love with homosexual sex you destroy it. so you can love anyone male or female friend without sex.

It is love gone astray.

So you are still believing that homosexuals don't exist; that they're actually heterosexuals having homosexual sex just to rebel against God, just because Paul apparently said so, and he's authoritative because he claims to have met Jesus.

You know, Christ wasn't kidding when he said, "Many will come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ,' and shall deceive many." Have you ever considered that one of these "many" may have been one who met Paul?