Student Protests Against Israel Are Wonderful

[Revoltingest]

Is that your rational for doing the wrong thing now? Because we didn't do the right thing years ago?

Any sin by any Muslims at any time in history.
Any passage in the Koran.
Any statement by any Muslim any time ever.
Any one justifies committing genocide against them.

 

[Kathryn]

You know who doesn't ever forget anything? Muslims and Jews.

 

[icehorse]

So it's unnecessary to request people follow normal debate and burden of proof standards?

No, but it's okay to refuse spurious requests.

 

[icehorse]

Any sin by any Muslims at any time in history.
Any passage in the Koran.
Any statement by any Muslim any time ever.
Any one justifies committing genocide against them.

remarkably inaccurate.

today, in 2024, about 1/3 of all Muslims want theocracy and Sharia.
today, in 2024, ALL Muslims claim the Quran is perfect and timeless.
today, in 2024, ALL Muslims claim that the cruel warlord Muhammad is the perfect role model.

Everyday, in their 5 times a day prayer, about half of all Muslims utter out loud the phrase "God is angry with Jews". That's about 5 billion times a day that that phrase is spoken out loud.

How about a little reform?

 

[icehorse]

Is that your rational for doing the wrong thing now? Because we didn't do the right thing years ago?

All I'm saying is that the world needs to step in right now.

 

[fantome profane]

All I'm saying is that the world needs to step in right now.

And all I am saying is the they need to step in the right direction.

Stepping in to go the wrong way will not help.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Everyday, in their 5 times a day prayer, about half of all Muslims utter out loud the phrase "God is angry with Jews". That's about 5 billion times a day that that phrase is spoken out loud.

This is an extreme and defamatory inaccuracy. The above is not among the phrases that are recited in Islamic prayers; the statements that "God is angry with Jews, and Christians are astray" are a highly fundamentalist interpretation of Qur'an 1:7, and most Muslims don't subscribe to that interpretation.

Here is Qur'an 1:7 for anyone who wants to read a translation of the actual text:

https://quran.com/en/al-fatihah/1-7

 

[Pogo]

remarkably inaccurate.

today, in 2024, about 1/3 of all Muslims want theocracy and Sharia.
today, in 2024, ALL Muslims claim the Quran is perfect and timeless.
today, in 2024, ALL Muslims claim that the cruel warlord Muhammad is the perfect role model.

Everyday, in their 5 times a day prayer, about half of all Muslims utter out loud the phrase "God is angry with Jews". That's about 5 billion times a day that that phrase is spoken out loud.

How about a little reform?

THE AL-FĀTIḤAH PRAYER IS ANYTHING BUT A CURSE AGAINST THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS​

By Shaykh Yūsuf Badāt​

Practicing Muslims generally pray five times a day. The Al-Fātiḥah is the first chapter of the Qurʿān which is an integral component of the daily ritual prayers. Here is the verbatim literal English translation of the supplication with no interpretation, brackets, explanation or footnotes:

“In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the worlds,
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Owner of the day of judgment,
We only worship You and only seek help from You.
Show us the straight path,
The path of those whom You have favoured;
Not of those who earn Your anger nor of those who go astray.” (Qurʿān 1:1-7)

Anything questionable in the above prayer? Well there seems to be a handful of anti-Muslim elements calling the above prayer a daily Muslim curse of hate against our brothers and sisters of the Jewish and Christian faith.

Status of the Jews and Christians in Islam​

Allow me to then give you a glimpse into Islam’s position of honour and respect for Jews and Christians.

The Qurʿān addresses many segments of humanity. When God addresses the Jews and Christians in the Qurʿān, He addresses them with a special title. That title is, “The People of the Book” indicative of the respect they have due to receiving God’s revealed Gospels and Testaments.

 

[Revoltingest]

remarkably inaccurate.

today, in 2024, about 1/3 of all Muslims want theocracy and Sharia.
today, in 2024, ALL Muslims claim the Quran is perfect and timeless.
today, in 2024, ALL Muslims claim that the cruel warlord Muhammad is the perfect role model.

Everyday, in their 5 times a day prayer, about half of all Muslims utter out loud the phrase "God is angry with Jews". That's about 5 billion times a day that that phrase is spoken out loud.

How about a little reform?

All this in defense of genocide of Muslims.
But it doesn't make that argument.

I notice that you're really bad at quoting
the nastier parts of Judaism's & Christianity's
scriptures. It's like you have one eye tied
behind your back.

 

[Pogo]

remarkably inaccurate.

today, in 2024, about 1/3 of all Muslims want theocracy and Sharia.
today, in 2024, ALL Muslims claim the Quran is perfect and timeless.
today, in 2024, ALL Muslims claim that the cruel warlord Muhammad is the perfect role model.

Everyday, in their 5 times a day prayer, about half of all Muslims utter out loud the phrase "God is angry with Jews". That's about 5 billion times a day that that phrase is spoken out loud.

How about a little reform?

45% of Americans think US is a Christian Country.
How many Christians think the Bible is imperfect.

Motes and Beams.

 

[Sargonski]

But Hamas has been stealing aid intended for Gazans, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

Why haven't the aid givers put their foot down - years ago.

Hamas are Gazans . but ridiculous nonsense on steroids given it is the Israeli's who are holding up aid .. starving the people .. a crime against humanity .. along with shutting off water .. bioterrorism.

Do you know what Bio-terrorism is ? How about Extermination .. and Ethnic Cleansing "From the river to the Sea"

You do not seem informed .. where did you get the "hundreds of millions of dollars" figure from ? This should be a hoot straight from the made up nonsense site .. Right !

 

[icehorse]

All this in defense of genocide of Muslims.
But it doesn't make that argument.

that's defamatory and inaccurate

I notice that you're really bad at quoting
the nastier parts of Judaism's & Christianity's
scriptures. It's like you have one eye tied
behind your back.

I have harshly criticized all the Abrahamic religions many times on this forum. It's like YOU have one eye tied behind your back

 

[icehorse]

This is an extreme and defamatory inaccuracy. The above is not among the phrases that are recited in Islamic prayers; the statements that "God is angry with Jews, and Christians are astray" are a highly fundamentalist interpretation of Qur'an 1:7, and most Muslims don't subscribe to that interpretation.

Here is Qur'an 1:7 for anyone who wants to read a translation of the actual text:

https://quran.com/en/al-fatihah/1-7

Two points:

1 - You are infantilizing Muslims when you pretend that the translation you provided isn't frequently interpreted as I said.

2 - Here's the translation from the most highly printed and distributed translation in the world. You might not like this translation, but it's out there in the world, having been reprinted hundreds of millions of times:

Surah 1:7 - The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

 

[icehorse]

And all I am saying is the they need to step in the right direction.

Stepping in to go the wrong way will not help.

In your opinion where would the right direction leave Hamas? If it leaves Hamas in existence, then why do you think the world should coddle Jihadists?

 

[Revoltingest]

that's defamatory and inaccurate


I have harshly criticized all the Abrahamic religions many times on this forum. It's like YOU have one eye tied behind your back

I see what I see in this & other recent threads.
Blaming the conflict entirely on Israel is a delusion.
Fortunately, student & other protests of genocide
will change public perception so that support
for it will lessen.

I notice from posts & frubals that Christians can
be very uncomfortable with criticism of their faith's
violence & support for Israel's crimes.
When a group I belong to receives valid criticism,
it's useful to recognize that malefactors don't
represent me, eg, businesses cheating customers
or employees. Then I don't take it personally.
And there's no temptation to defend dirtbags or
attack the critics.
(No offense intended to bags of dirt.)

 

[Debater Slayer]

Two points:

1 - You are infantilizing Muslims when you pretend that the translation you provided isn't frequently interpreted as I said.

It is not; that's decidedly a minority interpretation. It defames Muslims to claim that "half" of them say "God is angry with Jews" in their prayers.

2 - Here's the translation from the most highly printed and distributed translation in the world. You might not like this translation, but it's out there in the world, having been reprinted hundreds of millions of times:

Surah 1:7 - The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

This is the fundamentalist, minority interpretation I mentioned in my post. There's a reason the translation inserts commentary in parentheses; it's not part of the verse, and it's not how the majority understand the verse.

 

[fantome profane]

In your opinion where would the right direction leave Hamas? If it leaves Hamas in existence, then why do you think the world should coddle Jihadists?

I think the approach that is being taken right now by the current leadership of Israel will leave Hamas in existence. Or in the very unlikely case where they do manage to exterminate Hamas it will just be replaced by an identical organization with a different name.

The current approach is driving the civilian population (at least those who manage to survive) into the arms of Hamas.

Here, I will let Lloyd Austin - Secretary of Defense - explain what I am trying to say. This is from remarks he made way back in December.

'A Time for American Leadership': Remarks by Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III at t

Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III delivered the keynote address at the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley, Calif.

www.defense.gov

"You know, I learned a thing or two about urban warfare from my time fighting in Iraq and leading the campaign to defeat ISIS.

Like Hamas, ISIS was deeply embedded in urban areas. And the international coalition against ISIS worked hard to protect civilians and create humanitarian corridors, even during the toughest battles.

So the lesson is not that you can win in urban warfare by protecting civilians. The lesson is that you can only win in urban warfare by protecting civilians.

You see, in this kind of a fight, the center of gravity is the civilian population. And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat.


So I have repeatedly made clear to Israel’s leaders that protecting Palestinian civilians in Gaza is both a moral responsibility and a strategic imperative.

And so I have personally pushed Israeli leaders to avoid civilian casualties, and to shun irresponsible rhetoric, and to prevent violence by settlers in the West Bank, and to dramatically expand access to humanitarian aid."





This is the approach we should be taking. This is the only way to truly eliminate Hamas.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Two points:

1 - You are infantilizing Muslims when you pretend that the translation you provided isn't frequently interpreted as I said.

2 - Here's the translation from the most highly printed and distributed translation in the world. You might not like this translation, but it's out there in the world, having been reprinted hundreds of millions of times:

Surah 1:7 - The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

By the way, there have been reports of police violence during the arrests and breaking up of some of the student protests. You have made many posts about "free speech" and criticized some universities for a perceived lack of it. What are your thoughts on how the police have responded to some of these student protests so far, such as in the cases cited in the article I linked?

 

[Revoltingest]

The way to eliminate Hamas is to
eliminate the reasons Hamas exists.

 

[icehorse]

It is not; that's decidedly a minority interpretation. It defames Muslims to claim that "half" of them say "God is angry with Jews" in their prayers.



This is the fundamentalist, minority interpretation I mentioned in my post. There's a reason the translation inserts commentary in parentheses; it's not part of the verse, and it's not how the majority understand the verse.

For the sake of discussion, let's that's all true.

How many billions of times a day does that still leave us with?