Students Are Pushing Back Against Gender Ideology In Their Schools

[Kfox]

Yes, and so are yours as back to your subjective thoughts about real. But you don't understand when you are subjective and you do subjective choices and norms.

What are these subjective choices and norms you speak of?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What are these subjective choices and norms you speak of?

You don't understand that when you say you treat someone a certain way that is in effect a subjective choice and norm in you? You really don't understand when you express subjective thoughts about how to behave in regards to other humans?

 

[Kfox]

You don't understand that when you say you treat someone a certain way that is in effect a subjective choice and norm in you? You really don't understand when you express subjective thoughts about how to behave in regards to other humans?

The choice is subjective, but the actual treatment is objective. But I never spoke on how I treat people; only how I address them when talking about them to someone else.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The choice is subjective, but the actual treatment is objective. But I never spoke on how I treat people; only how I address them when talking about them to someone else.

Yeah, how you adress them or speak about them as per pronouns, sex and gender is a subjective choice .
BTW what do you mean by obejctive?

 

[Orbit]

Actually our primate cousins as well as dolphins, whales amd elephants have culture. Dolphins have even been noted for having language variations among different groups. From what I've personally observed I would even say crows and scrub jays (both corvids) have their own culture.

You're missing the point and ignoring the context of the exchange. Dogs don't have gender norms the way humans do.

 

[Kfox]

Yeah, how you adress them or speak about them as per pronouns, sex and gender is a subjective choice .
BTW what do you mean by obejctive?

Subjective is that which only exist in the context of human thought. Objective exist by itself regardless of human thought.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Subjective is that which only exist in the context of human thought. Objective exist by itself regardless of human thought.

Yeah, how you choose adress and speak about other humans as for sex and gender, is not objective.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're missing the point and ignoring the context of the exchange. Dogs don't have gender norms the way humans do.

I'm not too sure about that one either. It's not as profound as ours, but I've definitely noticed a few things.

 

[Kfox]

Yeah, how you choose adress and speak about other humans as for sex and gender, is not objective.

What difference does it make if it is objective or subjective?

 

[SkepticThinker]

When I refer to my dog as he/she, am I refering to my dog's gender? Or biology. Obviously biology because dogs don't have gender. If I can refer to my dog's biology this way, why can't I refer to a human's biology this way

Humans have genders.
Dogs don't.
No idea why you're comparing this to your dog, whose genitals you can clearly see.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, I made the claim that he/she is a reference to the biology of all mammals; humans included. You responded that biology is messy. This has nothing to do what the fact that he/she is used in reference to all mammals!

I will admit when I responded initially, I was in a hurry on a break at work and I missed the part where you claimed mammals that were observed displaying traits of both sexes are exempt from the he/she reference. What did you mean by this?

It was meant to show you how fuzzy biology actually is, rather than the clear cut black-and-white distinction that you really, really want it to be.

Gender is a social construct.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You need to realize, I do not recognize the countless different genders people claim, because I equate gender with biology. However for people like you who believe in the countless numbers of gender, if someone is expressing gender in the way they present themselves, I perceive that expression as an indication of their biology, so when I refer to them, I am referring to their biology which is limited to male/female; and does not include aproagender, bigender, and the countless others that I am unable to distinguish one from the other.

Yeah, you've said this like eighty times now. You even said it in the post I just responded to. Again I have to point out that we're not talking about 100 different genders. No idea why you keep saying that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Okay; just to be clear, when I say “don’t exist” I mean they don’t have an existence by themselves, they do not exist outside of human thought. To answer your question; economics, ethnicity, education and intelligence do not exist outside of human thought; family does because it is a description of real people with an objective existence.

And yet economics and education are still useful to us, aren't they?
Family is just a concept too. What's a family? A mom and dad and kid? Two grandparents and a kid? Two moms and four kids? Just a married couple? The possibilities are endless.

Fine; so you call it gender. But the fact that it changes from person to person, culture to culture an indication that gender is a social construct IOW subjective?

No, everyone who understand the topic calls it gender. It is subjective and it has changed over time.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Then where does it exist then? If social/cultural norms are not just the result of human thought/ideas, what else is it the result of?

It exists within society and culture. Who decided that women showing their ankles was scandalously evil? Society did. Probably men, mostly.

Who decided that pink is a girl colour and blue is a boy colour? Why did it used to be the other way around?
Who decided that girls wear dresses and men wear pants? Who decided it was okay for girls to start wearing pants?
I mean, we could go on and on here.

 

[Kfox]

Humans have genders.
Dogs don't.
No idea why you're comparing this to your dog, whose genitals you can clearly see.

To prove he/she applies to biology as well.

It was meant to show you how fuzzy biology actually is, rather than the clear cut black-and-white distinction that you really, really want it to be.

I never said biology was clear cut, as a matter of fact I’ve mentioned intersex many times.

Yeah, you've said this like eighty times now. You even said it in the post I just responded to. Again I have to point out that we're not talking about 100 different genders. No idea why you keep saying that.

So how many different genders are we talking about?

It exists within society and culture. Who decided that women showing their ankles was scandalously evil? Society did. Probably men, mostly.



Who decided that pink is a girl colour and blue is a boy colour? Why did it used to be the other way around?

Who decided that girls wear dresses and men wear pants? Who decided it was okay for girls to start wearing pants?

I mean, we could go on and on here.

If that is what gender is to you, why are you taking such outdated, sexist, stereotypes seriously in the year 2023? I would think progressives would be doing everything they can to dispel such sexist attitudes. If that is gender, don’t cha think we should get rid of gender all together and go with something else? Like Biology?

 

[SkepticThinker]

To prove he/she applies to biology as well.

I never said biology was clear cut, as a matter of fact I’ve mentioned intersex many times.

So how many different genders are we talking about?

If that is what gender is to you, why are you taking such outdated, sexist, stereotypes seriously in the year 2023? I would think progressives would be doing everything they can to dispel such sexist attitudes. If that is gender, don’t cha think we should get rid of gender all together and go with something else? Like Biology?

Totally missed the point.
I think I give up.

 

[Copernicus]

A colleague of mine on Facebook has just pointed out that Jesus, born of a virgin woman, lacked a Y chromosome. Yet he dressed and acted like a male. I offer this as something to ponder for Christians who have problems with transgender behavior that doesn't pair well with their biological chromosomes.

 

[fantome profane]

So how many different genders are we talking about?

If this is really such a stumbling block for you, fine, stick with the two. But understand even with two genders they might not necessarily match biological sex.

If you can handle that, maybe at a later date you could consider a third.

But small steps to begin with.

 

[Soandso]

A colleague of mine on Facebook has just pointed out that Jesus, born of a virgin woman, lacked a Y chromosome. Yet he dressed and acted like a male. I offer this as something to ponder for Christians who have problems with transgender behavior that doesn't pair well with their biological chromosomes.

I dunno... How masculine is a long white robe and long hair?

 

[fantome profane]

I dunno... How masculine is a long white robe and long hair?

Hey, be respectful, she died for your sins.