"Student's 'Jesus' shirt sparks feud with school"

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I must say you have a peculiar interpretation of "Life without Jesus is wasted" if you don't think that says something quite ugly about non-Christians.

Oh, I do think the message is quite ugly; my point was that inclusion/exclusion is probably an even bigger issue in terms of the mental well-being of teenagers.

It isn't necessary for a kids to accept thr statement as true to suffer harm. Even without accepting it as true, the fact that it implies the message "I exclude non-Christians from my peer group" makes it inappropriate.

 

[McBell]

"A Christian student suspended from a high school in Nova Scotia for sporting a T-shirt with the slogan "Life is wasted without Jesus" vows to wear it when he returns to class next week.

William Swinimer, who's in Grade 12, was suspended from Forest Heights Community School in Chester Basin in Lunenburg County for five days. He's due to return to class on Monday.

The devout Christian says the T-shirt is an expression of his beliefs, and he won't stop wearing it.

Nancy Pynch-Worthylake, board superintendent, said some students and teachers found the T-shirt offensive.

Swinimer wore the T-shirt every day to class for several weeks. The principal told him repeatedly to stop wearing it, but the student refused to comply.

Swinimer says the principal would have accepted a shirt with the slogan, "My life is wasted without Jesus."
source

​

So, what do you think? To me it looks too much like proselytizing, and should be stopped.

Sounds like said student thinks his religious beliefs are to be exempt from all rules...

my opinion, he wears it again, expel him for the rest of the school year.

He wears it (or another one like it) when he comes back again, expel him again for the rest of the school year.

 

[Falvlun]

I agree that kids have a lot of distractions in school. However, that is no reason to allow additional distractions, especially ones that can hit serious nerves. Students are still developing emotionally, they are stressed out about other things in life, and many are dealing with issues of self-worth. They don't need some intolerant student coming to school and spreading the idea that they are worthless if they are "others."

It isn't teaching them how to properly handle being offended.

Does anybody know if any students actually were offended?

What if that student simply chose to talk about his faith to others? How would that be any different, and how would you police that? During that frisbee match, there was one conversation about what sort of music which sort of people listened to. And you obviously didn't want to be listening to the sort of music "posers" listened to.

I don't see why religious intolerance is any worse than musical intolerance, in respect to the average highschooler's mindset. You can't stamp out all intolerance in a highschool, and I think it discriminatory to focus on religious beliefs. It also just perpetuates that cultural feeling that talking about religion is taboo, and one should become more offended or more uncomfortable than other subjects when people bring it up.

I agree that a level of social education is needed. However, I don't think we should allow the blind to lead the blind. This kid is proselytizing, or what I would deem close enough. It is the same basic tactic that many evangelical Christians use in order to "witness" to others. I don't think that belongs in school. Especially not when it becomes offensive, and borders on bullying.

Bullying is a major problem in school. It should be something that has no place in school. A message such as the one that this student is promoting, really is a form of bullying. He's stating that other's lives are worthless. Now, if, while in high school, I went up to someone and stated that their life was worthless unless they believed like I did, that would either be proselytizing, or bullying. Neither one belongs in school.

I dunno. I think it a little hyperbolic to consider this bullying.

Now, I wouldn't mind if students were more aware of political and religious ideal in the real world, but generally, unless they are taught otherwise (and religion and modern politics generally are not taught in many schools), the conversations are inane. And much of this has to do with them simply not having studied religion nor modern politics, and instead repeating nonsense that they either got off of crummy websites, or the like. There are obviously exceptions, but from my experience, students are severely lacking in those two departments.

Kids gotta start somewhere. The more you talk about things, the more you're thinking about them, the more you become aware of them, and then the more you wanna look into them.

 

[Falvlun]

I don't think it's so much a matter of making other kids unhappy about not having Jesus; I see a danger in deliberately setting up any in-group/out-group dynamic in a school. Whether the other kids believe the shirt or not, I think the implicit message that it communicates to non-Christians is "I consider you outsiders." That's why I don't think it's appropriate.

Personally, I think the kid wearing the shirt is setting himself up for outsider status, rather than creating it for anyone else. I doubt even the Christian kids would want to be strongly associated with such zealotry.

 

[Skwim]

A few posts back I made the mistake of forgetting this took place in Nova Scotia and not the USA. I then condemned the act as being in violation of Separation of Church and State. While US laws don't apply, I think the underlying principle of the law should. To blatantly advertise one's religious belief in a public school---on government property---which is what it amounts to in this case, is little different than trotting around in a government building wearing the same message on a sandwich board. It's using public property to proselytize, and I don't believe anything funded by tax payers should be used to support any religion or its tenets. I don't believe many Christians would want property they helped pay for used to promote Satanism, and vice versa. So the compromising solution would be to not let anyone use government property to promote any religion. What could be simpler? Want to advertise your religious beliefs? Then do it outside school property. And no, I don't believe that wearing religious items that are relatively inconspicuous should qualify under such a prohibition.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't understand what you're even saying here. This isn't an issue about being Christian, or religious. It is about an individual, in effect, being a bully by implying that those who are not like him, their lives are worthless. That is not tolerant, that is not Christ-like, and simply, it is ridiculous.

I think I have to side with free speech. If we have to start limited what can be stated to appease one group or another then I think we in danger the concept.

The issue again is not that the kid wore a shirt proclaiming Jesus. The article said there was nothing wrong with that. It was that he wore a shirt saying that "others" lives were worthless if they didn't have Jesus in them. That is a horrible message, and yes, it is disruptive and has no place in school.

Free speech and expressing one's self has no place in school?

It is a shirt with words printed on it. It is not inherently disruptive. However people use such things as an excuse to become disruptive. So we teach that in order to silence free speech it is only necessary to become disruptive. I don't know if that is a good thing to teach. It is better to appease the disruptive in society then support free speech. I don't think it is a road we should go down.

Anyway he has to go to school. If they expel they have to find another school for him. Probably just see himself as a martyr.

 

[Quiddity]

Not when it is disrupting class or interfering with the reason the students are in school....

I agree with this.

I just hope it's applied to all things that disrupt.

Like FSM shirts and alike.

 

[McBell]

I think I have to side with free speech.

Ah, so you are all for someone yelling fire in a crowd when there is no fire?
At what point, if any, do you draw the line?

If we have to start limited what can be stated to appease one group or another then I think we in danger the concept.

Had he been suspended without being warned MULTIPLE times not to wear it, I would agree.

However, by the time he got suspended, it was not a matter of free speech but plain flat out rebellion.

Free speech and expressing one's self has no place in school?

Not when it interferes with the reason the students are there to begin with...

It is a shirt with words printed on it. It is not inherently disruptive. However people use such things as an excuse to become disruptive. So we teach that in order to silence free speech it is only necessary to become disruptive. I don't know if that is a good thing to teach. It is better to appease the disruptive in society then support free speech. I don't think it is a road we should go down.

It is a bunch of metal that is pieced together. it is not inherently disruptive.
However, some people use the fact that it is called a gun as an excuse to become disruptive....

Anyway he has to go to school. If they expel they have to find another school for him. Probably just see himself as a martyr.

If I were the principal, I would encourage him to go play the martyr somewhere else.

 

[McBell]

I just hope it's applied to all things that disrupt.

Like FSM shirts and alike.

IMO, it matters not what it is that is causing the disruption, it matters not how stupid I think it is, it matters not how stupid others think it is...

If it is causing a disruption, it should be removed, period.

 

[Oryonder]

Does anybody know if any students actually were offended?

What if that student simply chose to talk about his faith to others? How would that be any different, and how would you police that? During that frisbee match, there was one conversation about what sort of music which sort of people listened to. And you obviously didn't want to be listening to the sort of music "posers" listened to.

I don't see why religious intolerance is any worse than musical intolerance, in respect to the average highschooler's mindset. You can't stamp out all intolerance in a highschool, and I think it discriminatory to focus on religious beliefs. It also just perpetuates that cultural feeling that talking about religion is taboo, and one should become more offended or more uncomfortable than other subjects when people bring it up.


I dunno. I think it a little hyperbolic to consider this bullying.


Kids gotta start somewhere. The more you talk about things, the more you're thinking about them, the more you become aware of them, and then the more you wanna look into them.

I think religions should be discussed in high school .. the good the bad and the ugly.

They should teach about these religions from a historical perspective outlining the various beliefs of ancient peoples and folks in modern times.

They should also teach how religion has been used as a tool for control and the horrible killing, genocide, and persecution conducted throughout history on the basis of religion.

Students should be encouraged to question, including questioning their own religious beliefs.

Students should be taught how the "fear factor" was ramped up over the ages and the effects of this subconscious brainwashing when applied to children at a young age.

Students should be taught how the use of fear of eternal punishment in the afterlife is effective at stopping people from questioning.

Students should be taught that, as far as the state is concerned, no human being speaks for God and that there is a difference between having a religious belief and forcing that belief on others through state legislation.

If we taught these things in school, and taught kids how to think for themselves, the fellow wearing his silly T-Shirt making the veiled fear based threat "A life without Jesus is wasted" would be ostracized so badely that he would quickly cease wearing the shirt.

 

[McBell]

If we taught these things in school, and taught kids how to think for themselves, the fellow wearing his silly T-Shirt making the veiled fear based threat "A life without Jesus is wasted" would be ostracized so badely that he would quickly cease wearing the shirt.

Unless he is looking to play the self imposed martyr card...

or he is starved for attention.

or worse yet, a combination of the two...

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's the update ... 'Jesus' T-shirt student taken out of school by dad - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Shows there's always more to the story than meets the eye. I say good riddance.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I don't care if he wears it, as long as he isn't forcing people to be religious.

I can wear a "Life is Better with a Basketball" shirt to school, which I actually have, and I bet it will inspire absolutely 0 people to go out for basketball.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I don't care if he wears it, as long as he isn't forcing people to be religious.

I can wear a "Life is Better with a Basketball" shirt to school, which I actually have, and I bet it will inspire absolutely 0 people to go out for basketball.

There is a huge difference. Saying life is better with a basketball allows for life without a basketball to be good... Even if it's not AS good.

Declaring that life is wasted without Jesus effectively alienates anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus. You want to shout that at the top of your lungs on a street corner? Go right ahead. There's no place for that in school.

 

[Gomeza]

Here's the update ... 'Jesus' T-shirt student taken out of school by dad - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Shows there's always more to the story than meets the eye. I say good riddance.

Yep, exactly . . . and now the real sad part of the story begins. That would be adding up all of the school board's man hours wasted in dealing with not only this issue but developing a policy to accommodate others wishing to express their religious beliefs.

The proverbial can of worms has just been opened.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Yep, exactly . . . and now the real sad part of the story begins. That would be adding up all of the school board's man hours wasted in dealing with not only this issue but developing a policy to accommodate others wishing to express their religious beliefs.

The proverbial can of worms has just been opened.

Expressing a love for Jesus is one thing. Expressing that non-believers are wasting their lives is another.

Hopefully you can understand why that second thing is unacceptable in a school.

 

[Quiddity]

IMO, it matters not what it is that is causing the disruption, it matters not how stupid I think it is, it matters not how stupid others think it is...

If it is causing a disruption, it should be removed, period.

Agreed.

 

[Oryonder]

Unless he is looking to play the self imposed martyr card...

or he is starved for attention.

or worse yet, a combination of the two...

Sure .. there are always those outliers who qualify for entrance into a mental institution.

Proper education would relegate this fellow into such a slot. This is the point of developing minds with the power to question and an understanding of the subject matter.

This education would allow most folks to recognize insane assertions for what they are and relegate them as such.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't care if he wears it, as long as he isn't forcing people to be religious.

I can wear a "Life is Better with a Basketball" shirt to school, which I actually have, and I bet it will inspire absolutely 0 people to go out for basketball.

And they'd also realize that the shirt is an attempt at humour (like those "____ is life - the rest is just details" shirts). I don't think the Jesus shirt was meant to be humourous.

 

[Vinayaka]

I feel sorry for the kid. He's 18, still a puppet on a string for his father, and the local pastor, hated by all his classmates. Now he has to go and find his place in some narrow island of mind, showing no tolerance for anyone, and somehow survive the whole thing ... with his name in the news. I predict he'll move out of town, most likely Alberta, in a few years.