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Suicide

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What do you think about suicide? What does your religion say about it?
It can be pretty sad, depending on the context.

Sometimes the world gives people too much to handle, and their outreach to philosophies or religions doesn't give them enough comfort, and they just can't take it anymore. Sometimes people are in situations that seem impossible, like an adolescent being badly abused. Sometimes chemical imbalances lead one to be unable to feel happiness, or to feel overwhelming sadness. These things are sometimes treatable, and often it's temporary, so it's best to help them as much as possible.

Other times people have debilitating terminal illness and want to be allowed to die. I think that should be respected. Some argue that it's selfish to want to die when one has family, but I'd argue it's selfish for that family to want to keep the person around despite their continual suffering.

Then some people do it out of protest or for honor or religion, like Buddhist Monks that set themselves on fire, or suicide bombers. I think it's usually rather irrational behavior, but if it doesn't hurt anyone else (ie the monks vs the bombers), then that's their call. Those that do so with violence towards others are highly unethical.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Luis ji, We are in this body because of the fear of loosing it, if there would be no fear, than we would be somewhere else,---not in this body.

I don't believe in that, sorry.


Why there is fear ?
Because we want to touch, see, feel our belongings or our beloved ones and we love our body too, as we take care of it day and night, body is just the instrument to feel this world. :)

That too is not really true. It is an ideal that should be pursued, not a fact.


As we were talking about the person who no bondages at all, Such kind of person have no reason to stay in this world, So what is the use of body, or why suicide. :D

That is a very personal question, and the answer will vary a lot among people and moments in time.


And this is known as death before death or "Samadhi". :)

_/\_
Chinu


Hmm, hadn't realized that before.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
chinu said:
Luis ji, We are in this body because of the fear of loosing it, if there would be no fear, than we would be somewhere else,---not in this body.

Why there is fear ?
Because we want to touch, see, feel our belongings or our beloved ones and we love our body too, as we take care of it day and night, body is just the instrument to feel this world. :)

As we were talking about the person who no bondages at all, Such kind of person have no reason to stay in this world, So what is the use of body, or why suicide. :D

Oh my God, i can't believe i agree with you in something. :areyoucra
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
LuisDantas said:
I don't believe in that, sorry.

Why do you believe we stay alive? We have been granted with the choice to suicide, why do you think we don't pick it?

LuisDantas said:
That too is not really true. It is an ideal that should be pursued, not a fact.

That is a part of our inner feelings. The ideal is to bring those inner feelings to the outside, to the surface.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Why do you believe we stay alive? We have been granted with the choice to suicide, why do you think we don't pick it?

We have been selected for the tendency not to use it. Which is not always a good thing. And then there is cultural indoctrination of a counter-suicide taboo.


That is a part of our inner feelings. The ideal is to bring those inner feelings to the outside, to the surface.

Is it? I know quite a few people that don't seem to fit your description.
 

arun

Member
My religion says that soul is immortal.so you can never actually die.If the body dies you will live in the afterlife and when you need to incarnate you can do so.So there may be a purpose or some lessons to learn in this incarnation and it's better to complete it .
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
What do you think about suicide? What does your religion say about it?

I personally consider suicide to be wrong, however, I follow three paths, and one of them at least takes an indifferent view about suicide. Some of the Gnostic Gospels compare the body to a prison that the true self is trapped in, so if you believe that, that at least makes suicide less evil in your eyes.

However, Gnosticism is also about enlightenment, so when it says that, I don't think a truly enlightened person would use suicide as an avenue of liberation.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
We have been selected for the tendency not to use it. Which is not always a good thing. And then there is cultural indoctrination of a counter-suicide taboo.

Selected for the tendency not to use it?
This is the first time i have heard about this.

Is it? I know quite a few people that don't seem to fit your description.

Given the nature of inner feelings it is impossible to actually know how people feel.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why do you believe we stay alive? We have been granted with the choice to suicide, why do you think we don't pick it?
Creatures survive and breed based on their ability to be successful in a given environment.

A species prone to suicide when things get tough wouldn't be a particularly successful species at surviving and breeding.

Therefore, avoiding death is rather strongly hardwired into most organisms, including us. A lot of people continue to live because they genuinely like life. Even those that do not like it continue to live due to hope for the future, or because they fear death, or some principles regarding duty or something. There are several safeguards against suicide because its not in our species best interest to commit suicide too much.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Selected for the tendency not to use it?
This is the first time i have heard about this.

Biologically speaking, it is to be expected that people aren't generally friendly to self-termination. Suicide hurts the odds of having offspring a lot.



Given the nature of inner feelings it is impossible to actually know how people feel.

It is not nearly as difficult as some people make it to be, either.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Creatures survive and breed based on their ability to be successful in a given environment.

A species prone to suicide when things get tough wouldn't be a particularly successful species at surviving and breeding.

This is the interesting part. Do you believe other species even think on the possibility of suicide? I have already heard of animals that commit suicide for a higher cause, but i have never heard of any non-human performing suicide just because they don't want to live anymore.

We are a successful species, and the idea of suicide still exists among us. So i wonder if your argument is valid.

Penumbra said:
Therefore, avoiding death is rather strongly hardwired into most organisms, including us. A lot of people continue to live because they genuinely like life. Even those that do not like it continue to live due to hope for the future, or because they fear death, or some principles regarding duty or something. There are several safeguards against suicide because its not in our species best interest to commit suicide too much.

I agree the safeguards are most likely the cause we avoid suicide. The psychological fear is likely one of them.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Personally, i believe the idea of suicide is inherent to the developed intelligence. In other words, it is not related to the natural selection. If anyone has evidence to prove otherwise i would highly appreciate it.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is the interesting part. Do you believe other species even think on the possibility of suicide? I have already heard of animals that commit suicide for a higher cause, but i have never heard of any non-human performing suicide just because they don't want to live anymore.
My observation seems to be in line with yours. I mean, creatures like bees will sometimes kill their self attempting to sting a target and protect the hive, but that's a higher cause.

I don't think very many animals have the capability of understanding life and death, or realizing that they will one day or die or that they can kill themselves if they wish to. Maybe a few of the smartest animals on the planet can realize it, but not many.

We are a successful species, and the idea of suicide still exists among us. So i wonder if your argument is valid.
The idea of suicide exists, but the suicide rate is very low. Unfortunately a large magnitude of people do kill themselves, but it's a very small percentage of the whole.

I agree the safeguards are most likely the cause we avoid suicide. The psychological fear is likely one of them.
There is often fear of death. Even if there isn't fear of death, there is fear of pain and gore and messing up. And even if there isn't fear of that, there's fear of hurting loved ones or failing to fulfill duties. Multiple safeguards have to be broken through before someone kills their self, so it's typically either a highly emotional person with severe and unbearable mental or physical suffering, or a person who is terminally ill, or someone with radical beliefs.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Suicide is a fairly sofisticated idea, that requires a certain level of abstract thought to be developed. Bacteria, for instance, may multiply so much that their individual survival becomes emperiled, but that is not intentional.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Personally, i believe the idea of suicide is inherent to the developed intelligence. In other words, it is not related to the natural selection. If anyone has evidence to prove otherwise i would highly appreciate it.
Suicide is indeed inherent to developed intelligence, and yet it is related to natural selection. Those aren't contrasting ideas.

Even unintelligent creatures have a strong will to live, despite not understanding suicide and death. It's in their survival and breeding interests to have that drive. If animals just gave up, or didn't go through pain and suffering for continuing to live, their species wouldn't last very long.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
My observation seems to be in line with yours. I mean, creatures like bees will sometimes kill their self attempting to sting a target and protect the hive, but that's a higher cause.

I don't think very many animals have the capability of understanding life and death, or realizing that they will one day or die or that they can kill themselves if they wish to. Maybe a few of the smartest animals on the planet can realize it, but not many.


The idea of suicide exists, but the suicide rate is very low. Unfortunately a large magnitude of people do kill themselves, but it's a very small percentage of the whole.


There is often fear of death. Even if there isn't fear of death, there is fear of pain and gore and messing up. And even if there isn't fear of that, there's fear of hurting loved ones or failing to fulfill duties. Multiple safeguards have to be broken through before someone kills their self, so it's typically either a highly emotional person with severe and unbearable mental or physical suffering, or a person who is terminally ill, or someone with radical beliefs.

I agree with your entire post.

LuisDantas said:
Suicide is a fairly sofisticated idea, that requires a certain level of abstract thought to be developed. Bacteria, for instance, may multiply so much that their individual survival becomes emperiled, but that is not intentional.

Correct.

Penumbra said:
Suicide is indeed inherent to developed intelligence, and yet it is related to natural selection. Those aren't contrasting ideas.

Even unintelligent creatures have a strong will to live, despite not understanding suicide and death. It's in their survival and breeding interests to have that drive. If animals just gave up, or didn't go through pain and suffering for continuing to live, their species wouldn't last very long.

Ah yes, this is more like it. I can see the connection now. In other words, there is a natural selection and individuals with more will to live are more likely to survive. And then suicide is directly related with the will to live. Thanks for clarifying. ;)
 
As long as someone is making an informed decision and sufficient effort has been made to resolve the issue which has led to a persons decision to commit suicide I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do so. I have absolutely no respect for the religious opinion that its wrong on the grounds that their religiouis scripture says so because this is a less than feeble arguement. I'd quite happily go as far to say that any religious opinion founded on scripture can be disregarded in favour of actual arguements when any issue is being discussed.
 

TJ73

Active Member
There are just so many different reasons that someone may attempt or commit suicide. It really is a complex issue.
In my daughters HS a girl committed suicide, within a months 3 others did and a few others tried, one of her girlfriends included. We visited her often in the hospital while she was under mental eveluation and I came and picked her up from home one day when I got a message that my daughter thought she was going to try again.
I lost a family member, depression
My girlfriends father, depression /drug addition
A good friend and another young man(clients son) both did it after taking prescription anti-depressants. Now this type really scares me. Someone can out of now where just do it. They are not in the "cry for help mode" where they do something dramatic, but don't seem to really want to follow through, they go for it full on after appearing just fine.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Depends on how religious you are. Suicide according to interpretation is prohibited by the bible. However, that is between you and your God. There are various passages in the bible that suicide is described and throughout history there have been many instances of suicide. Look at WWII and the Pacific Theater. Suicide in some instances may be preferable to life. Would you consider a Living Will in which you specify that you should not be kept alive by artificial means be considered suicide? I think everyone has to make their own decision in this matter.
 
suicide is an escape clause for those who have had enough of Life, and is their individual right. religion has no right whatsoever to forbid anyone from making this choice. also people who have terminal illnesses and are in severe pain should be given the choice of when to end the pain. religion is of itself a suicidal choice as it aborts the individual to think for him/herself.

Namaste,

Lenny
always smiling, well nearly:)
 
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