Suicide

[Koldo]

Okay. One more question...

Is there a reason why we live? We all have the capability and the opportunity to kill ourselves. In any given day, there's a hundred different ways to do it. But most of us don't. We wake up every morning and go to work and do all the stuff that a life entails without ever entertaining the option. But I want to know why that is.

From this point on, I don't want to generalise because I can only speak for myself. I don't know what other people think.

I can't think of a reason why I live. Or should continue to live. So I can't see a reason why not to kill myself. The two seem pretty arbitrary to me and very similar in that respect, even though at first glance they seem worlds apart. If I live without thinking about why I should live, then killing myself without thinking about why I should kill myself seems okay as well. Now this seems a bit odd, since people have already mentioned stuff like happiness, family and friends, money and so forth...but I don't know if I live for my family, or happiness, money ec.

We are programmed by default to live. We have safeguards, both physical and psychological to prevent death. And to trespass them you need a good reason.

The question "Why not kill myself?" becomes thus irrelevant, and i can hardly imagine anyone committing suicide just because of it. We don't need a reason to live, but we do need reason to kill ourselves. The question that matters then is "Why kill myself?". What do you intend to accomplish?

 

[Penumbra]

I agree with the biological imperative part. It's what makes gazelles flee away from a tiger instead of straight into its mouth. But living because we don't want to die doesn't appeal to me that much.

It doesn't appeal to me much either, but that's a fundamental basis for survival.

The thing, though, is that it's usually not conscious. If hope, fear, and duty are three biologically imperative safeguards against suicide, I doubt that most people identify them as such. They simply identify the reason as hope, fear, or duty, without digging deeper. And that's why those feelings work so well, and it doesn't make them any less real.

I don't think I have compassion for those that suffer. I feel sad and I tear up like anyone else would do when I read about people suffering, but I've done nothing as yet to help those who are suffering. The only reason I can think of for this negligence is that I don't care enough about those who are suffering to send at least a little bit of money to beggars or poor people. Any real compassionate person would not just be a feeler but a doer.

If you feel sad and tear up when you learn about suffering, then you have compassion. At this point you can act on it, especially since you're conscious of it. What would stop you from doing so?

Is that a rational action from the point of view of someone other than the saviour?

Yes. Among the most powerful of humanity's tools for survival and flourishing have been our social skills. Feelings like compassion, and the actions that follow from such a mindset, have brought humans this far.

 

[Nooj]

We are programmed by default to live. We have safeguards, both physical and psychological to prevent death. And to trespass them you need a good reason.

You don't need much of a good reason. Those safeguards are here simply because of our evolutionary history. And to be honest, I don't feel any sense of duty to my past furry ancestors. My body/mind screams at me to be scared of heights, but I've climbed a hundred metre cliffs in perfect safety.

If there was a reproductive advantage to dying, say because when we died we spread spores around, we wouldn't have these safeguards. We'd feel right in killing ourselves.

The question "Why not kill myself?" becomes thus irrelevant, and i can hardly imagine anyone committing suicide just because of it. We don't need a reason to live, but we do need reason to kill ourselves. The question that matters then is "Why kill myself?". What do you intend to accomplish?

You don't ever make choices just because of it?

 

[Koldo]

You don't ever make choices just because of it?

Barely ever.And i really mean it.
However, suicide is not a choice to be taken lightly. There is no going back.
And, seriously, if you are fine with your life why recur to suicide? What are you going to gain by doing so?

I don't know what you believe in, but from the religious views i know you are going to:

1) Hell
2) Worse reincanation
3) Eternal death

So there is no reason to suicide just because. I am not totally against the suicide idea, i just personally believe people need a very good reason to do so.

 

[Nooj]

Barely ever.And i really mean it.
However, suicide is not a choice to be taken lightly. There is no going back.
And, seriously, if you are fine with your life why recur to suicide? What are you going to gain by doing so?

You're right. I'm just saying that it could happen, and I know it could happen because for one very strange moment, I did feel the compulsion to step in front of a train for basically no reason. An opportunity was there for me to take. Then the moment passed and I kept on walking. We do all sorts of strange stuff based on instinct, habit or subconscious thinking. It's not as if we sit around and think about every action we do.

I don't know what you believe in, but from the religious views i know you are going to:

1) Hell
2) Worse reincanation
3) Eternal death

So there is no reason to suicide just because. I am not totally against the suicide idea, i just personally believe people need a very good reason to do so.

Are you religious? Personally, I'm not. I don't believe that Hell or reincarnation exists.

If you feel sad and tear up when you learn about suffering, then you have compassion. At this point you can act on it, especially since you're conscious of it. What would stop you from doing so?

I'll try.

 

[Koldo]

Are you religious? Personally, I'm not. I don't believe that Hell or reincarnation exists.

Eternal death is pretty much the option left for non religious people. And oh well, it is not better than our current positions, unless you are going through a lot of suffering.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

when you swith off a light does it remember ever being on.

 

[Ilisrum]

Why do you think so?

Because when you kill yourself you're still taking a life. A buddy of mine killed himself not too long ago and it was no different than if he was killed by some drug dealer. People still feel pain.

I don't know, because I've never been suicidal myself. I have asperger's disorder and my life sucks, but the idea of suicide's never crossed my mind, mainly because of family who cares about me.

My father's side is strongly Catholic and suicide is a sin in Catholicism. Maybe it's the noble thing to do in some cultures but I think it's selfish.

 

[chinu]

Personally, i believe the idea of suicide is inherent to the developed intelligence. In other words, it is not related to the natural selection. If anyone has evidence to prove otherwise i would highly appreciate it.

Koldo, you can compare death with "Dreams that we all take during nights "

Can anybody learn anything new in dreams ? No !, Why ?
Because in dreams we are in form of only thoughts without body, Sometimes you might have been noticed, that in dreams if we are trying to do any work, we feel it hard to do, or feel like that the work becomes difficult.

Similarly after death, We are, only in the form of thoughts not body, And in that form we cannot control our desires without this instrument which is known as body, which becomes the reason of our new births again,

As, body is the very important instrument, which has been given to us by "God" to learn the meaning of life. and further this instrument gives the directions to our desires.

For Example: Some of our friends are forcing us to do any bad work, and suppose we are in form of "Only-Thoughts" or "Dreams", in this case we cannot stop ourself,
But if we are in the form of body, than firstly we can control our body to join the bad company and than slowely we can also change our thoughts or desires.

As this "Body" or instrument has such a great value, So, "Sucide" is considred has Sin, because "Sucide" is not the solution to the problem.

I hope you might be understanding my point.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Storm]

What do you think about suicide?

Been there.

What does your religion say about it?

That it's pointless, but we won't hold it against you.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

It's tragic that people put life aside to die purposely. As I believe this is the only life we get, I think it's wrong, and should not be done.

 

[methylatedghosts]

To the person taking their own life, they believe there is no other option. I know there are other options, and there are others who know there are other options, but to the one concerned, all others have been exhausted, and for that I cannot blame them. I think it tragic and I think it's a shame that some are taught to hate their self enough to take such action, but I cannot blame them. I do not believe it to be sinful, though I wish it wouldn't happen. I do not believe that we can ever truly die... to ever truly not exist, so suicide is essentially inconsequential and pointless, but I do not believe that anything negative will result from suicide (to the person killing themself, though for those left behind, it's entirely their choices that can make it positive or negative)


too tired, brains dying... just a few thoughts that fell out of my head...

 

[Lahunken]

The word "suicide" is not in the King James Version, or the original Hebrew Old Testament, or the original Greek New Testament. Most people would say, Well, 'Thou shalt not kill' ". Wasn't King Saul condmned for not killing all the Philistines? In the Commandments there is reference to "thy neighbor". Am I my neighbor? I'll sing to you "I'm My Own Grandpa". Outside of Rome there was a clif where Christians jumped to their deaths, to go right to Heaven. The Roman Catholic Church cracked down and then outlawed suicide.

 

[Onkara]

My religion says that soul is immortal.so you can never actually die.If the body dies you will live in the afterlife and when you need to incarnate you can do so.So there may be a purpose or some lessons to learn in this incarnation and it's better to complete it .

I agree with this. So what does the suicidal individual wish to extinguish? I would say it is his personality, his sense of frustration with who and what is happening to them personally (as a body-mind).

For those who accept reincarnation then suicide just brings you back to have another go, so ultimately it is a wasted opportunity to find the good which lies in life and escape the samsara.

 

[Koldo]

I agree with this. So what does the suicidal individual wish to extinguish? I would say it is his personality, his sense of frustration with who and what is happening to them personally (as a body-mind).

For those who accept reincarnation then suicide just brings you back to have another go, so ultimately it is a wasted opportunity to find the good which lies in life and escape the samsara.

I prefer to look at this situation in another way.
For those who believe in reincarnation, if you are going to commit suicide then you weren't really ready for your current life. Nothing goes to waste though. This life will serve as experience to make your next try easier.