Suicide

[TJ73]

suicide is an escape clause for those who have had enough of Life, and is their individual right. religion has no right whatsoever to forbid anyone from making this choice. also people who have terminal illnesses and are in severe pain should be given the choice of when to end the pain. religion is of itself a suicidal choice as it aborts the individual to think for him/herself.

Namaste,

Lenny
always smiling, well nearly

Ahh balls... Religion has every right. You just happen to have the right to disagree. And I am glad religion, for the most part, forbids it. It may keep at least some people from doing it. Like I said before, there are some many different types/reasons. Illness and suffering aside, It really hurts the one left behind. To see a Mother who can't help but wonder why and what she could have done. That is a pain I never want to see again.

 

[notthedalaidrama]

Ahh balls... Religion has every right. You just happen to have the right to disagree. And I am glad religion, for the most part, forbids it. It may keep at least some people from doing it. Like I said before, there are some many different types/reasons. Illness and suffering aside, It really hurts the one left behind. To see a Mother who can't help but wonder why and what she could have done. That is a pain I never want to see again.

aah balls! great intelligence their my friend! Religion is a man made institution which is as corrupt as politics, an Osho quote

"Priests and Politicians are the Mafia of the Soul".

I myself came very close to suicide, so I have been very close to the exit door, what stopped me from leaving is something I may answer later. But, if I want to end my life, then that is MY choice, and no one else has the right to forbid me from doing so. As for those left behind, well, that is their problem to deal with! Whether it be a mother, father, sister, brother or partner. For a person to want to end their life then obviously something/someone in their life is not right/good; and so those people around who are close to the person must have some inkling that something is not right! Their are occasions when the suicide does come as a surprise/shock, but generally people know something isn't right. Religion has no place to interfere in a persons life, after all look at the mess it causes when it does! No same sex marriages for starters! No women priests! No abortions! But this is about suicide, so I'll not digress!!!

Namaste,

Lenny
Fairies wear Pink Boots!

 

[TJ73]

aah balls! great intelligence their my friend! Religion is a man made institution which is as corrupt as politics, an Osho quote

"Priests and Politicians are the Mafia of the Soul".

I myself came very close to suicide, so I have been very close to the exit door, what stopped me from leaving is something I may answer later. But, if I want to end my life, then that is MY choice, and no one else has the right to forbid me from doing so. As for those left behind, well, that is their problem to deal with! Whether it be a mother, father, sister, brother or partner. For a person to want to end their life then obviously something/someone in their life is not right/good; and so those people around who are close to the person must have some inkling that something is not right! Their are occasions when the suicide does come as a surprise/shock, but generally people know something isn't right. Religion has no place to interfere in a persons life, after all look at the mess it causes when it does! No same sex marriages for starters! No women priests! No abortions! But this is about suicide, so I'll not digress!!!

Namaste,

Lenny
Fairies wear Pink Boots!

Ahh twinkies!
I am just sayin' you don't have to agree or adhere to religion. Religion can sy anything, just like you can. And the thought of religion or loved ones left behind may have prevented some people from doing it and that's good. And if it was their own thought that stopped them then good too. Many different reasons people get in that state of mind. You said someone or something in their life isn't right, but sometimes it is worse than that. There are some new drugs out that seem to just compel people to give it up. It's complicated.

 

[Nooj]

In Japan there are survivors of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings who refer to themselves as-
‘Those who refused to commit suicide’
I take inspiration therefrom and remind myself that there is nothing in my life that surpasses what they went through.

Why do you think people who have gone through absolutely horrendous things refuse to kill themselves, and yet some people who haven't endured half the things they have do? Is it just because some people are stronger than others?

Do you think suicide takes courage or is it indicative of cowardice?

 

[Quagmire]

What do you think about suicide? What does your religion say about it?

Mine says it's cheating. It's like calling in sick on the day of a test: you're just going to have to take it over again anyway.

 

[McBell]

Interesting how so many people feel that laying down ones own life for another is such a bad thing.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Why do you think people who have gone through absolutely horrendous things refuse to kill themselves, and yet some people who haven't endured half the things they have do? Is it just because some people are stronger than others?

Do you think suicide takes courage or is it indicative of cowardice?

From my experience, madness. And one area where empathy fails completely is in assessing the despair of another. I have yet to be flayed alive, but I remember being without my Gwynnies... but, hey, what am I trying to do, convince you to be mad?

 

[Penumbra]

Why do you think people who have gone through absolutely horrendous things refuse to kill themselves, and yet some people who haven't endured half the things they have do? Is it just because some people are stronger than others?

I do think some people are stronger than others. It's rather unrealistic in my opinion to assume all people are equal. Some people simply have far more resilience than others.

But it's not so black and white. People who kill themselves are not necessarily weak. It depends a lot on context.

-A lot of suicides have to do with depression. In part, it's a matter of the electro-chemistry of the brain not working properly. In that sense, it's a disease, so it's rather inappropriate to say someone is weak because they have a disease. If someone gets other diseases, we don't typically say they are weak.

-Some people are more fortunate than others to come across the right person or the right philosophy at the right time. Some people are introduced to coping mechanisms that work for them while others are not fortunate enough to come across something like that. So given two people in equally bad mental states, if one of them has been introduced to the right ways of thinking that can help them deal with it, they would be less likely to commit suicide than the other.

Do you think suicide takes courage or is it indicative of cowardice?

It depends on the context. I imagine it would be a scary thing to do, so some people are afraid of it while others are able to go through with it. But on the other hand, it can sometimes be viewed as a failure.

So it depends mostly on the specific context and mental state of the person.

Interesting how so many people feel that laying down ones own life for another is such a bad thing.

I haven't seen anyone here mention self sacrifice in this thread.

Altruistic sacrifice is not typically included under the umbrella of suicide, even though it technically is. The difference is that the purpose is not to die, but instead to save.

 

[Quagmire]

Interesting how so many people feel that laying down ones own life for another is such a bad thing.

Most suicides aren't about that.

 

[Nooj]

It can be pretty sad, depending on the context.

Sometimes the world gives people too much to handle, and their outreach to philosophies or religions doesn't give them enough comfort, and they just can't take it anymore. Sometimes people are in situations that seem impossible, like an adolescent being badly abused. Sometimes chemical imbalances lead one to be unable to feel happiness, or to feel overwhelming sadness. These things are sometimes treatable, and often it's temporary, so it's best to help them as much as possible.

Other times people have debilitating terminal illness and want to be allowed to die. I think that should be respected. Some argue that it's selfish to want to die when one has family, but I'd argue it's selfish for that family to want to keep the person around despite their continual suffering.

Then some people do it out of protest or for honor or religion, like Buddhist Monks that set themselves on fire, or suicide bombers. I think it's usually rather irrational behavior, but if it doesn't hurt anyone else (ie the monks vs the bombers), then that's their call. Those that do so with violence towards others are highly unethical.

A lot of the reasons you describe are because the people are under duress. They're in pain or suffer from mental illness. Do you think there's a good reason for killing yourself if you're healthy, have good relationships, wealthy and happy? You say that self immolation and suicide bombing for higher causes is irrational behaviour.

But is there a rational reason for killing oneself that isn't connected to the previously stated reasons?

 

[McBell]

But is there a rational reason for killing oneself that isn't connected to the previously stated reasons?

Saving the life of another comes to mind.

 

[Penumbra]

A lot of the reasons you describe are because the people are under duress. They're in pain or suffer from mental illness.

Do you think there's a good reason for killing yourself if you're healthy, have good relationships, wealthy and happy?

Usually not, but that's why it doesn't happen very often. What reason could there be if the person is healthy, wealthy, social, and most importantly, happy?

Unless of course you're referring to altruistic sacrifice if the need comes up.

You say that self immolation and suicide bombing for higher causes is irrational behaviour.

I said it usually is irrational behavior.

But is there a rational reason for killing oneself that isn't connected to the previously stated reasons?

Not that I see, no. Unless, again, you include sacrifice under the umbrella of "killing oneself".

 

[Nooj]

Saving the life of another comes to mind.

What's rational about that?

 

[Penumbra]

What's rational about that?

It's rational if the life one is saving is more important to them than their own life.

 

[Koldo]

A lot of the reasons you describe are because the people are under duress. They're in pain or suffer from mental illness. Do you think there's a good reason for killing yourself if you're healthy, have good relationships, wealthy and happy? You say that self immolation and suicide bombing for higher causes is irrational behaviour.

If not for a higher cause then i can not imagine a happy person committing suicide. Unless maybe being forced by someone else, or being tricked, or under drugs effect. It would have to be something completely out of control from the person.

But is there a rational reason for killing oneself that isn't connected to the previously stated reasons?

It is possible for someone to suicide for any cause it regards as being of high importance.

 

[esmith]

Interesting how so many people feel that laying down ones own life for another is such a bad thing.

Correct, through time immortal others have laid down their lives that others may live and will continue to do so.

 

[notthedalaidrama]

Ahh twinkies!
I am just sayin' you don't have to agree or adhere to religion. Religion can sy anything, just like you can. And the thought of religion or loved ones left behind may have prevented some people from doing it and that's good. And if it was their own thought that stopped them then good too. Many different reasons people get in that state of mind. You said someone or something in their life isn't right, but sometimes it is worse than that. There are some new drugs out that seem to just compel people to give it up. It's complicated.

yes we can disagree! and I don't agree with religion as it is a form of mental suffocation. I agree with your statement about drugs, prozac(and other similar drugs) has been linked with suicide(and violent behaviour) and that is awfully sad, obviously when I am writing about suicide it is not including this area.
If an individual has had enough and wants out, and they choose to kill themselves, I have no problem with that. It is sad that they have come to that decision, but it is their right to do so. The people left behind will suffer, and again that is sad, but life is tough at times! People learn to accept what has happened and move on with their lives, not forgetting, and feeling pain occasionally; but life is both bitter and sweet.

Namaste,

Lenny
holy smoke is kool

 

[Nooj]

If not for a higher cause then i can not imagine a happy person committing suicide. Unless maybe being forced by someone else, or being tricked, or under drugs effect. It would have to be something completely out of control from the person.

Okay. One more question...

Is there a reason why we live? We all have the capability and the opportunity to kill ourselves. In any given day, there's a hundred different ways to do it. But most of us don't. We wake up every morning and go to work and do all the stuff that a life entails without ever entertaining the option. But I want to know why that is.

From this point on, I don't want to generalise because I can only speak for myself. I don't know what other people think.

I can't think of a reason why I live. Or should continue to live. So I can't see a reason why not to kill myself. The two seem pretty arbitrary to me and very similar in that respect, even though at first glance they seem worlds apart. If I live without thinking about why I should live, then killing myself without thinking about why I should kill myself seems okay as well. Now this seems a bit odd, since people have already mentioned stuff like happiness, family and friends, money and so forth...but I don't know if I live for my family, or happiness, money ec.

I said it usually is irrational behavior.

Sorry for misreading you.

 

[Penumbra]

Okay. One more question...

Is there a reason why we live? We all have the capability and the opportunity to kill ourselves. In any given day, there's a hundred different ways to do it. But most of us don't. We wake up every morning and go to work and do all the stuff that a life entails without ever entertaining the option. But I want to know why that is.

Most likely it's due to one of two reasons:
-A lot of people genuinely enjoy being alive.
-As I have previously mentioned in this thread, it's a biological imperative that creatures do not commit suicide under most scenarios. There are so many safeguards in place, such as hope, fear, duty, etc, even for when a person doesn't genuinely enjoy being alive.

From this point on, I don't want to generalise because I can only speak for myself. I don't know what other people think.

I can't think of a reason why I live. Or should continue to live. So I can't see a reason why not to kill myself. The two seem pretty arbitrary to me and very similar in that respect, even though at first glance they seem worlds apart. If I live without thinking about why I should live, then killing myself without thinking about why I should kill myself seems okay as well. Now this seems a bit odd, since people have already mentioned stuff like happiness, family and friends, money and so forth...but I don't know if I live for my family, or happiness, money ec.

-Do you agree that there exists suffering in this world?
-Do you have compassion for those that suffer?
-Do you have at least some ability to affect the world around you? (Judging by your proficient use of the computer, I'd say yes.)

If you've at least partially answered yes to those questions, then you have a reason not to kill yourself. If you're dead, you can't alleviate suffering or promote happiness for others, but if you're alive, you can.

 

[Nooj]

Most likely it's due to one of two reasons:
-A lot of people genuinely enjoy being alive.
-As I have previously mentioned in this thread, it's a biological imperative that creatures do not commit suicide under most scenarios. There are so many safeguards in place, such as hope, fear, duty, etc, even for when a person doesn't genuinely enjoy being alive.

I agree with the biological imperative part. It's what makes gazelles flee away from a tiger instead of straight into its mouth. But living because we don't want to die doesn't appeal to me that much.

-Do you agree that there exists suffering in this world?
-Do you have compassion for those that suffer?
-Do you have at least some ability to affect the world around you? (Judging by your proficient use of the computer, I'd say yes.)

If you've at least partially answered yes to those questions, then you have a reason not to kill yourself. If you're dead, you can't alleviate suffering or promote happiness for others, but if you're alive, you can.

I don't think I have compassion for those that suffer. I feel sad and I tear up like anyone else would do when I read about people suffering, but I've done nothing as yet to help those who are suffering. The only plausible reason I can think of for this negligence is that I don't care enough about those who are suffering to send at least a little bit of money to beggars or poor people. Any real compassionate person would not just be a feeler but a doer.

It's rational if the life one is saving is more important to them than their own life.

Is that a rational action from the point of view of someone other than the saviour?