Superstition vs Faith

[McBell]

And you were going to offer something about the topic?

I figured I would wait until after you explain the difference between your faith in god and superstition...

You were going to do that, right?
Explain the difference?

 

[waitasec]

Same to you.

Repost your best shot...I'll rebuttal it.

ok, what is the difference between superstition and your faith?
i'm still waiting, we all are.

 

[waitasec]

And you were going to offer something about the topic?

what are you complaining about ...your the one who's going off topic...

read the title of the thread and tell us...what is the difference between superstition and your faith?

 

[Thief]

Let's try post #133

Spirit first.
God as creator.
Man as a reflection.

There are more than 6billion copies of a device that produces spirit.
A fair assumption would be some will survive dying.

Not much point in all of this 'chemistry' only to have it fail in the dust.

Of course, because of freewill, many copies have chosen not to learn.
Many copies do fail in the dust.

Then I'll take you back to another...and another...
Or you could do something more than lazy, and pick one you might be able to discuss.

There are several others....choose....

 

[jarofthoughts]

Let's try post #133



Then I'll take you back to another...and another...
Or you could do something more than lazy, and pick one you might be able to discuss.

There are several others....choose....

How is that an explanation for the difference between your belief in a god and superstition? :sarcastic
I think you are going to have to be more clear than that...

 

[Thief]

How is that an explanation for the difference between your belief in a god and superstition? :sarcastic
I think you are going to have to be more clear than that...

So pick another post I've done....choose....

 

[jarofthoughts]

So pick another post I've done....choose....

How about you just explain it here and now?

 

[Thief]

How about you just explain it here and now?

So you don't want to...or haven't read the thread...
and all you really want to do is troll?

 

[jarofthoughts]

So you don't want to...or haven't read the thread...
and all you really want to do is troll?

No, I am genuinely asking for an answer and the one you pointed us to didn't make matters any clearer.
Why can't you just give us a clear and consistent explanation for why you think your faith in god is not superstition, if indeed that is what you think?

 

[Thief]

No, I am genuinely asking for an answer and the one you pointed us to didn't make matters any clearer.
Why can't you just give us a clear and consistent explanation for why you think your faith in god is not superstition, if indeed that is what you think?

God is real.
Or did you want to forgo the topic and do another 'prove God' thread?

 

[jarofthoughts]

God is real.
Or did you want to forgo the topic and do another 'prove God' thread?

You've established that you think god is real.
Now explain how that is different from people who think ghosts are real or that the number 13 actually brings bad luck.
I understand that you don't think that your belief in god is superstition, but what is the actual difference?
The people believing in ghost, faeries or whatever, will say exactly the same thing as you do; that ghosts, faeries, curses, magic, Zeus, whatever...is real.

 

[Thief]

Here you go...

I did scan this thread and maybe I missed it.....

Superstition is a practice of the hand as if to influence the world around you.
It is not necessarily effective.
The earmark is typically the lack of connection between this world and the effect the practitioner desires.

So of course there's a crossover between religion and superstition.

I believe washing of the body has no effect about removing sin.
The practice is a superstition.

I believe repetitious prayer is superstitious.

I believe rituals are superstitious. Special garments and incense have no effect about drawing the attention of heaven....to you.

I could go on.

Oddly though, I do 'feel' good about wearing rings with crosses on them.
And so....though I refrain ritual and repeated prayer....
I don't over look how the other person feels.

Perhaps the practice is all they can really do....for themselves and others.
I say, if the intention is selfless and the desire for help is there....

Let there be prayer.

Better yet...let's see if you can answer this previous post better than you did the last time.

And maybe this time you might take a stance and speak what YOU think the topic is about.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Here you go...

Better yet...let's see if you can answer this previous post better than you did the last time.

So, am I reading you right in that you think there is little difference, if any, between religion and superstition?

And yet, you claim that your belief in god is not superstition.
Why not?
This is the original question I asked you, and I've asked it several times now.

And maybe this time you might take a stance and speak what YOU think the topic is about.

I did so in a reply to the OP in post #50.
I'll link it here since it makes little sense without the context: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3000322-post50.html

 

[jasonwill2]

I'm pretty sure that a superstition would be something that wouldn't have any rational or logical reason behind it. For example, if you throw salt over your shoulder because it is believed to negate bad luck, that is superstition and doesn't have a reason.

However if the belief is rooted in some kind of idea and comes as a logical or rational outcome of your assumptions, then it can be religion.

Most of my beliefs are logical, but I do not think that atheists would agree with my assumptions. I use deductive logic as much as possible, but I admit at times inductive logic creeps in if I am not careful.

A small example of my logical process:

assumption: god is the universe. (pantheism)

statement: The Universe is finite,

therefore, God is finite. (and yes I really believe that God is finite).

So superstition has no logic to it, no reason for it. Religion does, even if those assumptions or rationalizations are based on a false foundation... that differs it from superstition.

 

[jarofthoughts]

assumption: god is the universe. (pantheism)

While I have no particular problem with your views, what separates the above assumption from the salt-throwing superstition?

 

[jasonwill2]

While I have no particular problem with your views, what separates the above assumption from the salt-throwing superstition?

It's an assumption that isn't based on casually linking causation with an arbitrary event. but is instead based on how I have interpreted nature in general along with some rationalizations. Even in cosmology there are assumptions. I recall reading there being something like 3-5 for cosmology in an old (1980's) Astronomy textbook, but as far as I know I think at least one of those were proven more recently.

However the assumption that God is the Universe is, well, an assumption. The idea that throwing salt over your shoulder negates bad luck has more to do with casually linking causation than it does a logical given.

That's all givens are in any logical process, a fact that is assumed to be true. Axioms are typically "self-evident" things, but I wouldn't say that pantheism is self-evident like the identity axiom that says A=A. I won't even say it is self-evident, it's merely my assumption.

If I reach a deductively logical conclusion that at least seems to be consistent with my observations and magical experience, I then run it through some other processes to determine if it is a likely candiate for a useful model or not.

But it must all pass the deductive logic before it ever gets to that stage.

I would say that my religion, and how I screen information, differs it from mere superstition. Religion has some kind of logic (even if inductive) or rationalization to it, superstitions do not.

 

[waitasec]

God is real.
Or did you want to forgo the topic and do another 'prove God' thread?

that is beside the point...the point you are avoiding...for some reason.
what is the difference between your faith in god and superstition?

superstitions are real you know

 

[InsurgoInsurgiInsurrect]

I must admit that I bristle whenever I hear someone call faith (alternately, religion) superstition. I suspect that's the point, but I also think there's a discussion there.

"Superstition," to me, boils down to trivial habit. Throwing spilled salt over your shoulder, etc.

Faith, otoh, has the power to transform lives, be it religious or otherwise. Religion reflects our deepest-held values, expresses our hopes and dreams, and reveals depths of our collective psyche normally hidden.

To dismiss these things as mere superstition is incomprehensible to me.

So, how do you understand the words?

If you're in the habit of equating superstition with religion/ faith, why do you do so?

If, like me, you see them as incomparable, what difference do you see?

Superstition and faith are both forms of belief and both will shape and affect the lives of anyone who holds beliefs. Trying to draw a line between superstition and faith is going to be a line drawn differently for everyone depending on what you believe... Do you walk under a ladder or curse jesus? Do you draw a cartoon about Mohammad or take Thor's name in vain?

Superstition can transform someones life just as much as faith can and your argument also seems to rely on the idea that having faith will always transform your life for the better which I would argue is something the mothers of the suicide bombers on 9/11 would argue against. (Or the siblings who grew up watching their siblings die from simple medical problems that could easily be cured but whose parents happened to have faith as a christian scientist.)

Faith is not always good or bad and neither is superstition. Faith is not inherently better than superstition and what serves as faith for you might be superstition for others and what serves as superstition for you might serve as faith for others.

 

[Scuba Pete]

what is the difference between your faith in god and superstition?

Faith is revealed.
Myths are "invented".

Suggesting that a person's faith is merely a myth is nothing but a troll and the intent is always to insult.

How do you tell the difference between a myth and faith? You really can't. Many myths were someone's faith at some point. They saw God and tried to describe the spiritual in terms of the physical. As in any translation, something was lost in the process. Does this make their attempt any less valid? Only to egocentric people who feel they have never made a mistake.

Look at how science has evolved. First there were only four elements: air, fire, earth and water. Should we demean the early scientists for getting it so completely wrong? Should we relegate the concept of elements to the garbage heap of myths? No. Understanding evolves. It's natural and it's beautiful. My understanding of God is completely different than when I was in grade school, cursing God for taking my father. It's different that when I was born again in college. It's different than when I left the church of Christ when they preached that war is good. I'm sure it will continue to evolve until I die, and then it will evolve some more. In the process, my love and tolerance has also grown. I'm way OK with that.

No, the urge to paint Theism as being myth based comes from near sighted people trying to get past their own inadequacies by tearing down others. Yes, I do find it offensive and it displays a certain bigotry that I find alarming. Consider me underwhelmed by their efforts thus far. I certainly hope this helps.

 

[Thief]

So, am I reading you right in that you think there is little difference, if any, between religion and superstition?

And yet, you claim that your belief in god is not superstition.
Why not?
This is the original question I asked you, and I've asked it several times now.



I did so in a reply to the OP in post #50.
I'll link it here since it makes little sense without the context: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3000322-post50.html

Yeah well..your rebuttal aimed at someone else didn't work on me.
I have no dogma or ritual. No recital or creed.

Check my banner.

Reason for believing in God is not superstition.
But that belongs in so many other topic threads, of which I have participated.

Maybe you've been quick enough to follow them?

The difference between religion and superstition is a fine line.
Most of which is indiscernible.

Except of course, religion is aimed at a much Higher Intelligence.
Superstition appears to be the practitioner, attempting to control his surroundings by his own gesture.

Not much difference.
Not my practice.
I dropped such things a long time ago.