Superstition vs Faith

[Storm]

I must admit that I bristle whenever I hear someone call faith (alternately, religion) superstition. I suspect that's the point, but I also think there's a discussion there.

"Superstition," to me, boils down to trivial habit. Throwing spilled salt over your shoulder, etc.

Faith, otoh, has the power to transform lives, be it religious or otherwise. Religion reflects our deepest-held values, expresses our hopes and dreams, and reveals depths of our collective psyche normally hidden.

To dismiss these things as mere superstition is incomprehensible to me.

So, how do you understand the words?

If you're in the habit of equating superstition with religion/ faith, why do you do so?

If, like me, you see them as incomparable, what difference do you see?

 

[outhouse]

I use superstition knowing its a joke but enjoy playing lol everything kept light and happy. Im not serious about it at all.

I have no faith in a religion or afterlife

 

[Storm]

I use superstition knowing its a joke but enjoy playing lol everything kept light and happy. Im not serious about it at all.

I have no faith in a religion or afterlife

OK, honest question: you say it's a joke, is it intended to aggravate believers?

 

[Riverwolf]

Well, I already went into it in another thread, but for the sake of this one, I'll repeat it.

In short, all superstition is faith, but not all faith is superstition.

This is based on the idea that faith is basically trust with either minimal or no evidence.

 

[Storm]

Well, I already went into it in another thread, but for the sake of this one, I'll repeat it.

In short, all superstition is faith, but not all faith is superstition.

This is based on the idea that faith is basically trust with either minimal or no evidence.

OK, so what is superstition?

 

[Riverwolf]

OK, so what is superstition?

Superstition falls under faith, but it's one that's based on absolutely no evidence, and I also think it may be based on ritual actions that are supposed to bring about a positive result, even if the action and result appear completely unrelated.

 

[outhouse]

OK, honest question: you say it's a joke, is it intended to aggravate believers?

no its more like this tie is my lucky tie or these are my lucky pants ect ect.

no rabbits foot ect ect its all kept light.

Now if that tie doesnt do me justice LOL it may stay on the hook a while lol

 

[Erebus]

Personally I see superstition as faith in the absurd. This admittedly leads to a lot of subjectivity, though I would expect a pretty strong argument from anybody who called another's faith superstitious before I agree with them.

Calling all faith superstition though is flawed, since people can have faith in anything from science to a lover's promise which is hardly superstitious. Faith can also be placed into an idea or concept with no evidence to support it without it being superstitious. For example, many people will claim that science is the key to a better world. This is of course pure faith based conjecture since scientific advancement could easily result in nuclear/biological war instead. Despite this, such a statement of faith could not really be called superstitious.

 

[Skwim]

I must admit that I bristle whenever I hear someone call faith (alternately, religion) superstition. I suspect that's the point, but I also think there's a discussion there.

"Superstition," to me, boils down to trivial habit. Throwing spilled salt over your shoulder, etc.

Faith, otoh, has the power to transform lives, be it religious or otherwise. Religion reflects our deepest-held values, expresses our hopes and dreams, and reveals depths of our collective psyche normally hidden.

Interesting that you describe superstition in terms of what it is, a habit; and faith as what it does, transform lives.

Religion reflects our deepest-held values, expresses our hopes and dreams, and reveals depths of our collective psyche normally hidden.

Err... what does this have to do with a comparison of superstition and faith?

To dismiss these things as mere superstition is incomprehensible to me.

And I don't believe anyone would dismiss values, hopes, dreams, and the depth of some collective psyche as superstition. Seems to be a straw man here.

So, how do you understand the words?

I think dictionary.com puts it pretty well.

Superstition:

1) An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
​

2)A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
​

Faith:

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
​

If you're in the habit of equating superstition with religion/ faith, why do you do so?

No habit, but I do regard some of it as irrational.

If, like me, you see them as incomparable, what difference do you see?

Just as a matter of information In some respects I do see them as comparable. Both deal with personal perceptions, and both lack a grounding in knowledge.

 

[Storm]

Interesting that you describe superstition in terms of what it is, a habit; and faith as what it does, transform lives.

I hadn't thought of that, but it is interesting.

To clarify, I was comparing the power of the two... modes, I guess. That superstition is trivial, even to those who hold it, while faith couldn't be further from it.

Err... what does this have to do with a comparison of superstition and faith?

As I said in my first sentence, religion is also equated with superstition. So, I addressed both.

And I don't believe anyone would dismiss values, hopes, dreams, and the depth of some collective psyche as superstition. Seems to be a straw man here.

Fair enough. The op was as much a rant as an argument, I admit. I could have been more clear.

I guess I just don't think those who equate faith/ religion with superstition are thinking it through.

I think dictionary.com puts it pretty well.

Superstition:

1) An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
​

2)A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
​

Faith:

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.​

Well, I concede that many practices fall under the definition of superstition given. My point, though, is that there's more to words than bald definition. What are the connotations, to you?

No habit, but I do regard some of it as irrational.

Fair enough.

Just as a matter of information In some respects I do see them as comparable.

Again, fair enough. Thanks for explaining your perspective.

Both deal with personal perceptions, and both lack a grounding in knowledge.

Now, the latter part I don't agree with at ALL. Not as a blanket statement, anyway.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't recall using the word superstition too often, if ever.

But based on the definition posted by Skwim, superstition does seem to accurately apply to a broad range of faiths.

 

[dogsgod]

I always think in terms of religion as being a euphemism for superstition. I use the euphemism so as not to offend, because that's the point of a euphemism.

 

[Storm]

I always think in terms of religion as being a euphemism for superstition. I use the euphemism so as not to offend, because that's the point of a euphemism.

Willing to elaborate on that?

 

[freethinker44]

To me, faith is just large-scale superstition. The two really just blend together for me.

When I was christian there was an obvious difference between the two but once I became atheist they became the synonomous with each other.

Incidentally and maybe on a different topic, the same thing happened with how I view different sects of the same religion. For instance, I completely understand the difference between a priest, reverand, and pastor, but if I am not consciously thinking about it I just refer to all of them as priest or whichever version comes to mind first. Same goes for the terms mass and sermon. They all mean the same to me even though I understand the differences between them.

I am not sure why this is the case for me but maybe this helps explain why, as a non-theist, I generalize religion and superstition. I don't know why it happens but it isn't a conscious decision, and certainly isn't meant to be offensive to anyone. Although, to be honest, if it slips out in an argument or debate, I can't say that it bothers me that it bothered the other person. Sorry.

 

[Storm]

To me, faith is just large-scale superstition. The two really just blend together for me.

OK. Why? Do you think about the connotations? If so, what are they?

When I was christian there was an obvious difference between the two but once I became atheist they became the synonomous with each other.

What was the difference, and why is it no longer valid.

Incidentally and maybe on a different topic, the same thing happened with how I view different sects of the same religion. For instance, I completely understand the difference between a priest, reverand, and pastor,

You're one up on me, then. What's the difference?

but if I am not consciously thinking about it I just refer to all of them as priest or whichever version comes to mind first. Same goes for the terms mass and sermon. They all mean the same to me even though I understand the differences between them.

What do they mean?

I am not sure why this is the case for me but maybe this helps explain why, as a non-theist, I generalize religion and superstition. I don't know why it happens but it isn't a conscious decision, and certainly isn't meant to be offensive to anyone. Although, to be honest, if it slips out in an argument or debate, I can't say that it bothers me that it bothered the other person. Sorry.

I appreciate the effort (and the honesty!)

 

[freethinker44]

You know what? I can't think of a difference between any of that.

The "ex-christian" side of me wants to go into the differences between catholic and baptist and lutheran and whatever else but I really can't think of anything intellectually honest to say. I usually only acknowledge a difference when I refer to someones "mass" or "sermon" in an argument and then they completely brush it off thinking I am confusing them with the other denomination. But yeah, I guess there isn't a difference.

But then, meyabe it isn't atheists or non-theists who are in the wrong. Maybe there really is no difference between superstition and religion. Maybe the two are the same and it is theists who are just "splitting hairs" for some kind of validation effect or something.

 

[Gloone]

I must admit that I bristle whenever I hear someone call faith (alternately, religion) superstition. I suspect that's the point, but I also think there's a discussion there.

"Superstition," to me, boils down to trivial habit. Throwing spilled salt over your shoulder, etc.

Faith, otoh, has the power to transform lives, be it religious or otherwise. Religion reflects our deepest-held values, expresses our hopes and dreams, and reveals depths of our collective psyche normally hidden.

To dismiss these things as mere superstition is incomprehensible to me.

So, how do you understand the words?

If you're in the habit of equating superstition with religion/ faith, why do you do so?

If, like me, you see them as incomparable, what difference do you see?

I agree with your take on superstition. It is a broken concept of what isn’t. I could tell you some things I would like to do with money, but it probably isn’t appropriate for the forums.
I agree with your understanding of faith as well. It can be religious or non-religious. Just like guns don’t kill people, people do. God doesn’t tell people what religion they should be a part of, people do or try to.

 

[Skwim]

I hadn't thought of that, but it is interesting.

To clarify, I was comparing the power of the two... modes, I guess. That superstition is trivial, even to those who hold it, while faith couldn't be further from it.

But as we've seen elsewhere on the forum, one mans faith can be another man's superstition. Granted that some superstitions are pretty trivial, but this isn't the hallmark superstition.

I guess I just don't think those who equate faith/ religion with superstition are thinking it through.

Not saying that all of a religion is superstitious, only some of the faiths/beliefs. Someone has faith that spirits live in a volcano who can be placated by the sacrifice of a young virgin. Superstition or not? The ancient Egyptians believed that using make-up prevented evil spirits from entering through one’s eyes. Superstition or not? Or how about the Filipino religious belief that taking a bath on Good Friday will cause one to become deathly ill. Superstition or not?

​

Well, I concede that many practices fall under the definition of superstition given. My point, though, is that there's more to words than bald definition. What are the connotations, to you?

They both connote quite a bit about people, but nothing more than generalizations that center around an abandonment of reason when it fails to meet one's needs.

Now, the latter part I don't agree with at ALL. Not as a blanket statement, anyway.

Faith is a trust that something is true whereas knowledge is knowing the something is true. Faith is grounded in trust, not knowledge. Superstition, being utterly irrational, is no better.

 

[Storm]

Well, Skwim, I'm not sure I agree, but I do think I understand better. Thanks for that.

 

[dogsgod]

Willing to elaborate on that?

The only way is to define the terms so as to clarify what is meant, and post 9 did that by providing definitions from a dictionary. Religious faith beliefs are a sub set of superstitious beliefs but otherwise synonymous in that superstition covers a wide range of beliefs whereas religious faith beliefs are specific to a particular religion or religions.