Supporting Trump, now a religion?

[tytlyf]

Agreed.



Wrong:


Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers # of
Founding
Fathers % of
Founding
Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204




Silly. Truth is interesting, but not entertaining. FACT

The LW media, lies about all history that incLudes religion of any kind, especially conservative Christianity: FACT

You're mixing up founding fathers versus the population. We're talking about the people responsible for creating the constitution and declaration of independence. The founding documents.

Start here.
The Founding Fathers: Who Were They Really?

 

[metis]

Franklin T. Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 28 were Anglicans (in the Church of England; or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), 21 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians such as Thomas Jefferson, who constructed the Jefferson Bible, and Benjamin Franklin.

Historian Gregg L. Frazer argues that the leading Founders (Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Wilson, Morris, Madison, Hamilton, and Washington) were neither Christians nor Deists, but rather supporters of a hybrid "theistic rationalism". -- Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia


From another source:

Although orthodox Christians participated at every stage of the new republic, Deism influenced a majority of the Founders. The movement opposed barriers to moral improvement and to social justice. It stood for rational inquiry, for skepticism about dogma and mystery, and for religious toleration. Many of its adherents advocated universal education, freedom of the press, and separation of church and state. If the nation owes much to the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is also indebted to Deism, a movement of reason and equality that influenced the Founding Fathers to embrace liberal political ideals remarkable for their time. -- The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity | Founding Fathers

 

[omega2xx]

You're mixing up founding fathers versus the population. We're talking about the people responsible for creating the constitution and declaration of independence. The founding documents.

Not completely. Most if not all of them has something to do with the constitution, and or the Bill of rights

Start here.
The Founding Fathers: Who Were They Really?

It told who they were but did no mention their religion or lack of. We know Washington was a solid Christian. It would be unthinkable that he wold not have a great influence on what they ended up with.

 

[metis]

Seriously, I cannot understand how anyone who voted for Trump and who still justifies Trump's words and actions can actually claim that they are a believer in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.

When we hear and read what Trump has repeatedly said, and then we compare them to what is found with the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim scriptures, there simply is hardly any that match. When we look at Trump's actions and compare them to Moses', Jesus', or Mohammed's actions, there's hardly any that match.

So, I guess some will have to make a decision as to who they really want to follow..

 

[tytlyf]

Not completely. Most if not all of them has something to do with the constitution, and or the Bill of rights



It told who they were but did no mention their religion or lack of. We know Washington was a solid Christian. It would be unthinkable that he wold not have a great influence on what they ended up with.

Correct, from the list of our founding fathers, the majority are not christian. Which is why they created a secular constitution and a secular country. They weren't fond of religion and government.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You are like little children eating sour grapes.

Mmmmmmm.... sour grapes.... tasty and delicious too.

Meanwhile? I was 100% CORRECT in my prophecy that you would ignore the main points, and instead call people names!

LMAO! Does this mean I'm a PROPHET now?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Even with those bad things, America was still better overall.

Unless you were black. Or a woman--especially an unmarried woman. Or a minority in a major-white district. Or NOT a land-owner. Or underage (no protection against child labor).

Or a non-union worker (no safety protection-- you got fired if you got sick).

But yeah... the were "better overall" ...... riiiiiight..

"The Kool-Aid is Strong with this one"

Also Americans saw the injustice of these things and corrected them.

Unless the injustice was against Native Americans. Or against Blacks. Or against Women--especially unmarried women. Or against Children.

Then? NO CORRECTIONS OF ANY SORT. It was "Carry on, nothing to see here, move along"

Since then America has become more violent, more dishonest, more lawless, more disrespect for authority, including parents, and many ON THE LEFT BLAME AMERICA FIRST for all the evil in the world.

No to ALL of the above. Crime is DOWN-- has been going down since Bill Clinton you hate with every fiber of your being.

Murder? DOWN. Untimely death? DOWN. Lawlessness? DOWN.

You truly do buy Fox Noise and it's continues presentation of comfortable lies.

Instead of the truth which you deny every day.

Because you prefer being .... angry for "the good old days"... !

Sad.

 

[tytlyf]

You truly do buy Fox Noise and it's continues presentation of comfortable lies.
.

Fox has changed their format/tone the past week or 2. No more hyperbole, more fair and balanced coverage. I wonder if the usual Fox audience has boycotted them yet?

The owners of Fox news were embarrassed by the network, which is why it's changing.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

That is part of Presbyterian theology, which I am wedded to. The Bible speaks of both---God's sovereignty and man's free will. That is a theological knot man has unsuccessfully being trying to untie since they started studying the Bible.

I am not going to untie it, but I am going to loosen it a bit. "God's sovereignty and man's responsibility is an antinomy---2 apparent truths that seem to contradict each other and you cant play one against the other without destroying them both---Wen you were born did you start living or dying---is cleaving separating or joining?

Instead of saying they are contradictory, I say they SEEM contradictory because my understanding is lacking.

I'm going to ignore the above, because it's an argument from ignorance fallacy.

It's also an argument that re-defines the meaning of "good" to be "whatever god wants".

Which is false-- that is Might Makes Right, which is false.

All powerful means "can", not "does." It is obvious that Ada, and Eve had free will in the Garden or God would not have said to them, "you can freely eat for any tree, but not from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

False. Either god has All Power, or god doesn't.

If god "chooses" to not use it? That means that free will cannot exist-- because the all powerful would overwhelm mere human powers.

The ONLY way we can have free will, is if god is as surprised at the future as we are.

Which isn't "all knowing" and isn't "all powerful".

Only for the first 3 of the plagues to show His power over the Egyptian gods to the Egyptians and to the Jews. After that Pharaoh hardened his own heart---But when Pharaoh saw there was relief, HE HARDENED HIS HEART and did not listen to them as the Lord had said. If he had obeyed at that time, the plagues would have been over.

False. Read it again: God destroys any possible free will-- the reason? God DELIGHTS and takes GLORY in the death and destruction of poor Pharaoh. The bible literally states that The Glory Of God, by defeating (killing) Pharaoh--- preferably in the most horrific fashion possible.

But nevermind that. The wanton murder of ALL THE FIRST BORN BABIES by bible-god is nothing short of Atrocity! Genocide, even. What did those BABIES do do bible-god?

INNOCENT BABIES! That is horrible!

You need to read the story as it is, not how you pretend it is.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I didn't see any post about this, so I thought I would link it since it's been gaining some traction online:

The actual article, where she cites religion as her reason:

Woman spars with DMV over Trump hat license photo

The picture that has been circulating online:

Thoughts? Opinions? Well deserved mocking of this lady?

The people (the rabid braindead Trump sheeple) are ridiculous...!

Support the man if you like but don't come off entitled as if it gives you carte blanche to do whatever you want.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Well at least if she had been elected maybe she would finally quit whining about what a big loser she is--have to give you that.

Yet we already see Trump campaigning for 2020 and constantly talking about how bigly he won...and that's when he's not golfing at our expense at one of his resorts or hotels....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

That's not the point.
It's that her fans point to all the horrible things Trump will certainly have done,
& use this to prove we should've elected her. But since she lost, her supposed
superior record is entirely imagined, ie, she does no wrong because she does nothing.

Well given what this administration is going through and the many investigations they're under I think the consensus I've been hearing is not that people should have voted and elected her...rather they just shouldn't have voted and elected him.

You must understand that that agenda sucks for many others....
- Higher taxes

Taxes will be raised on me if they pass their TrumpCare plan to shift the 800 billion in tax cuts to the upper percentile.

- More dysfunctional regulation

But the regulation he is poised to elimiate affects people on a whole when you consider he's making it easier for some companies to dump in the water, pollute the air and use scientifically proven harmful chemicals that were once banned.

- More wars

We've, under this administration, have already gotten more engaged in Syria, Afghanastan, Iraq and now we're saber rattling with N. Korea

- Bigger government

Trump's seems to be on track to running what we had into the ground with no understanding as to how government works. I'm all for small consolidated governmental services and agencies but what he's doing isn't small government.

- Crony capitalism

You're joking right....I mean..just look at who the man has on his team. Golman Sachs execs, Exxon exec, Devos and her family ties, Kushner's sister doing a little pay for play, Kushner and Ivanka with business intrest, non-divestment in businesses..on and on......!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Fox has changed their format/tone the past week or 2. No more hyperbole, more fair and balanced coverage. I wonder if the usual Fox audience has boycotted them yet?

The owners of Fox news were embarrassed by the network, which is why it's changing.

I wonder what happened to Murdock? Is he out, then? I thought he was behind the extremism.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well given what this administration is going through and the many investigations they're under.....

Are investigations proof of anything by their very existence,
when they've yet to yield anything significant?

......I think the consensus I've been hearing is not that people should have voted and elected her...rather they just shouldn't have voted and elected him.

This isn't clear.

Taxes will be raised on me if they pass their TrumpCare plan to shift the 800 billion in tax cuts to the upper percentile.

Finally!
You'll pay your fair share.

But the regulation he is poised to elimiate affects people on a whole when you consider he's making it easier for some companies to dump in the water, pollute the air and use scientifically proven harmful chemicals that were once banned.

I oppose further environmental degradation.

We've, under this administration, have already gotten more engaged in Syria, Afghanastan, Iraq and now we're saber rattling with N. Korea

This is indeed troubling....at least to me.
Both Dems & Pubs find war too appealing.

Trump's seems to be on track to running what we had into the ground with no understanding as to how government works. I'm all for small consolidated governmental services and agencies but what he's doing isn't small government.

I don't recall Trump ever being a small government candidate.

You're joking right....I mean..just look at who the man has on his team. Golman Sachs execs, Exxon exec, Devos and her family ties, Kushner's sister doing a little pay for play, Kushner and Ivanka with business intrest, non-divestment in businesses..on and on......!

Where's the joke?
I oppose crony capitalism, be it from either Dem or Pub politicians.

You might be under the mistaken impression that I approve of Trump's every act & agenda.
I don't.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Only for the first 3 of the plagues to show His power over the Egyptian gods to the Egyptians and to the Jews. After that Pharaoh hardened his own heart

No, your god hardened the unnamed pharaoh's heart, and even told Moses that he would do this. After the first two plagues, the pharaoh was willing to let the Hebrews go, but your god had a petty lesson to teach, revoked his free will, and made some macabre example of him. Not to mention that the first two plagues - water to blood and frogs - was allegedly replicated by the Egyptian priests. It should also be noted that after the plague of flies and lice the Pharaoh yet again was willing to let the Hebrews go, but your god hardened his heart.

God haters sin. What isis does is sin.

And again, what has he done about it? All well and good to stamp his feet angrily and proclaim that he hates sin, but what has he done to stop the swarm of the caliphate?

I have just shown that I do, not it is your turn.

You have shown that you can quote-mine and find verses that you think apply to your point. Not that you know your book.

There are many gods including the one(s) you worship. They are real in the minds of men and they are worshiped. A loving God would be jealous for His people to put man-made god before Him

You're contradicting yourself--remmeber when you said "there are no other gods"? (Something that you need to prove, by the way). If a god is "man-made" (and I challenge you to back up that claim with clear indication for what man-made is as well), then it's not really a god. Your god would be incredibly childish to be jealous; more so to force or command "his people" away from such a non-issue.

Nor have I said that jealousy makes a god not a god. I have said that it would make your god weak and less-than-perfect.

What is flatly and factually wrong is you understanding of the "Bible---For God so loved the WORLD.

Yes yes, he sent his son to be brutally tortured and murdered to (conditionally) fix an error that he caused by dangling temptation in front of thoughtless, innocent beings and then cursing their generations with an affliction of sin. Yet a single line does not void all of your god's statements, actions, and non-actions.

Also since you're so prone to making specific distinctions with wording, it says your god loved the world. Not everyone in it.

God doe snot hate people

Except for Esau, amirite?

He hates what they do because sin is not good for anyone.

Only it does not say that your god hates enchanting, magic, necromancy, wickedness, violence, etc, it says that he hates the people who do them. Also the huge list of actual peoples.

Belief(faith) is required in Christianity.

Not relevant to what was quoted, at all. The subject of that specific quoting was in regards to what @tytlyf said about the founding fathers and deism, and your flaccid rejection of it (with no evidence to back up your claims).

We know Washington was a solid Christian.

No, actually, he wasn't a "solid" Christian. While he was affiliated with the Episcopal Church, his attendance was spotty, he was noted as often leaving mass before communion, his baptism is dubious and hard to prove, and on his death bed he did not send for a priest. While in his writings he used the word "God" quite a bit, the words "Jesus" and "Christ" were avoided - and to note, "God" is something that Deists would use as well. Washington was even flat-out called a deist by many of his peers.

 

[omega2xx]

Correct, from the list of our founding fathers, the majority are not christian. Which is why they created a secular constitution and a secular country. They weren't fond of religion and government.

Not true. They knew from the past that government sponsored religion and religion getting involved in government was the worst thing that can happen to freedom of religion.

 

[omega2xx]

Mmmmmmm.... sour grapes.... tasty and delicious too.

Meanwhile? I was 100% CORRECT in my prophecy that you would ignore the main points, and instead call people names!

LMAO! Does this mean I'm a PROPHET now?

Of course not. You knew what I would do because I have said what I would do for several months.

I am the prophet. I keep saying none of you evos will cut and paste the evidence from one of you links. So far I have been 100% right.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

none of you evos

Evos?

You're still calling names. So far, Bob is a better prophet than you.

 

[omega2xx]

I'm going to ignore the above, because it's an argument from ignorance fallacy.

It's also an argument that re-defines the meaning of "good" to be "whatever god wants".

Which is false-- that is Might Makes Right, which is false.




False. Either god has All Power, or god doesn't.

If god "chooses" to not use it? That means that free will cannot exist-- because the all powerful would overwhelm mere human powers.

The ONLY way we can have free will, is if god is as surprised at the future as we are.

Which isn't "all knowing" and isn't "all powerful".



False. Read it again: God destroys any possible free will-- the reason? God DELIGHTS and takes GLORY in the death and destruction of poor Pharaoh. The bible literally states that The Glory Of God, by defeating (killing) Pharaoh--- preferably in the most horrific fashion possible.

But nevermind that. The wanton murder of ALL THE FIRST BORN BABIES by bible-god is nothing short of Atrocity! Genocide, even. What did those BABIES do do bible-god?

INNOCENT BABIES! That is horrible!

You need to read the story as it is, not how you pretend it is.

Your Bible ignorance is much worse than i thought.God did not kill Pharaoh and dedicating the first born to God was not murdering them.

The other commend in this post, are so wrong, I am not going to bother showing you why.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Your Bible ignorance is much worse than i thought.

Ironic.

God did not kill Pharaoh

Exodus 14:23-30 "...The Egyptians were fleeing toward [the sea], and the Lord swept them into the sea. The water flowed back and covered the chariots and horsemen - the entire army of Pharaoh that had followed the Israelites into the sea. Not one of them survived..."

dedicating the first born to God was not murdering them.

Semantics, but either way it was human sacrifice.