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Suppression of Free Speech on Covid

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
What a joke -- " Vax or lose Job" - is coercion .. which is a form of forced compliance. Your claim that "Unless someone holds the person down" it is not force -- "Coercion" is pure Authoritarianism .. and patent nonsense..
Too bad for him. His employer has every right to protect it's employees and customers. And should, if they value them. Notice how you didn't address that point.

I guess your son will have to find a job with a company that doesn't value it's employees and customers enough to take proper precautionary health measures during a global pandemic.
That you think there is nothing wrong with a boss telling an employee to have sex with them or lose job .. that such coercion is not force and so if he didn't actually hold her down its perfectly OK .. is another example of some twisted woke joke thinking. \
Uh, no. That's sexual harassment. Not the same thing AT ALL.
My body my choice no more I guess aye "Skeptic" ?
Still is. Your son could get vaccinated and go to work. Or quit, and find a job that doesn't require vaccination. Those are his CHOICES he still has.
If the Gov't threatens abortion providers with "FORCE" -- laws banning the procedure and stiff penalties for providers .. Thats OK according to you because the woman was not held down and forced to give birth naturally .. or forced not to have an abortion .. She could have left the country after all .. she had a choice. Your Facist Logic .. not mine. What a joke.
Oops, you've gone off the rails. This makes zero sense.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Absolutely false, so I don't know what you pulled that out of, but I do have a theory. :p

As one who taught a political science course for 25 years, I had to look at things from an unbiased viewpoint as best as I could. To check and see if I was successful in being even-handed, I had my students fill out a confidential survey and had a student collect and mix them at the end of a semester.

LOL... If you taught for 25 years, you need to exercise that capacity in your global broad brush statement.. maybe your age? :eek:

I'm a lot deeper than just a simple epidermis-style "I have you in a box" position..

And you base this on what?

I don't know if Lindsey was right, but my point is that to put Biden on the same moral level as Trump is nothing short of pure garbage; and I am not that crazy about Biden either, btw, but for a different reason. There is no way that I could vote for anyone even close to what Trump has said and done because so much of that was the antithesis of what Jesus taught, as "love one another" was and is not part of Trump's m.o.

What is garbage, current or past, is highly subjective. Plus, we aren't God determines who He wants to use and not us.

Saul had a horrible garbage past but God said, "I think I will make him Paul for my use".
Simon was a cusser but Jesus say Peter.
David was a murdering adulterer, but God saw him as a friend.
Balaam wanted money - God used him to bless Israel.

So I try to follow the Holy Spirit's direction to the best of my ability. I trust His mercy rejoices over judgement if I make an honest mistake like Abimelech. :D




Fits my split personality. :oops:

:) Which one is Dr. Jekyll and which one is Mr. Hyde?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
After your assumption that ignorant doctors were the explanation for a miraculous healing you'll excuse me if I don't value your opinion on that.
I made no such assumption. What I have done is continually ask you for further information that you have repeatedly failed to provide. In response, you've thrown out quippy remarks that provide no information.
Please stop making false claims about me.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Who said it wasn't legal - the Nazi's made a law stating Jews were less than human . What is being clamed is that these Nazi's in the Blue woke camp have made such law .. one known as "Forced Medical Treatment" Making "Forced medical Treatment" legal ..does not change the fact that it is forced medical treatment.

Why would health care practitioners have to get a flue vaccine ? .. there is no point .. legitimizing the ability of a company to violate "my body my choice" .. I don't believe that folks were forced to get a flue vax .. but even if they were .. is still Nazi mania .. complete violation of essential liberty .. for no legitimate reason.

Your claim that one needs be aware of policy before taking job is a horrible argument .. as we are talking someone who already has the job ... and there was no requirement prior.

You then double down on bad argument crying "the company could change its policy" .. ????????????? Get some logic -- or try to use that which you have .. So if you are working at a place that the Boss changes the policy -- Blowjobs every monday or lose your Job .. that is all good in the hood ? ... get a grip.

Then unlike the flue vax .. this Covid vax is incredibly dangerous (high risk of harm - SAR/Death) .. and does not work nearly as well as normal flue vax .. doesn't work at all on healthy people.
Healthcare practitioners have to be up-to-date on all vaccinations, including flu vaccinations. AT least, where I live. There is definitely a point to it.

The COVID vaccine is not incredibly dangerous. You are spreading lies.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Of course I can support my claim .. but it is not up to me to support your claim .. which is that to the contrary .. crying out "ignorant nonsense" .. as if you would know the difference.

So .. fancy pants .. Go first - tell me the risk of harm (SAR) from the vax to a healthy male who has had covid age roughly 16-30 vs the risk of harm from Omicron.

You are the one running around claiming the vax is safe and effective .. and approving of Law on this basis to Jab your Neighbor rather than love your neighbor.

YOU -- are the one needs support your claim .. wanting to force your personal beliefs on others through physical violence. I am not the one trying to justify Law .. I just want the Jabbers to leave me alone.

Prove to us all that you have absolutely no idea what the numbers are .. which is obviously true .. demonstrated by your crying out "ignorant nonsense" because that necessary illusion bubble was popped .. and you were triggered .. just like the religious folks .. same "Thought Stopping" process going on .. a function of sophisticated mind control techniques.

Lets go sport. .. Risk of harm -- SAR numbers which you should know being so up in the issue .. whats the risk to a healthy male 16-30 from the Vax "Severe Adverse Reaction" I will give you a hint .. the Phizer -Moderna pretrial data is available thanks to an Austrailian freedom of information act request as of last Xmas .. those would be good numbers to use. but feel free to come up with others.

Oh .. shart .. don't have a clue . .not the foggiest idea ? like that is a surprise .. 1 in 800 is the number you are looking for. The "STAT" you don't know .. and were desperately ignorant of .. believing some ignorant nonsense instead.

What does that mean fancy pants .. tell us how much you know .. is 1 in 800 good .. bad ? perfectly safe No ? not a clue on that one either .. well perhaps instead of me giving you the answer .. you try to figure it out first .. and also tell us what the risk of harm "SAR" of Covid is to a healthy male 16-30 .. from Covid ?

and for Giggles .. tell us how many healthy males 16-30 -died from Covid
Physical violence? What are you going on about??
You've fallen into a YouTube rabbit hole of nonsense there, "fancy pants."
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Too bad for him. His employer has every right to protect it's employees and customers. And should, if they value them. Notice how you didn't address that point.

I guess your son will have to find a job with a company that doesn't value it's employees and customers enough to take proper precautionary health measures during a global pandemic.

Uh, no. That's sexual harassment. Not the same thing AT ALL.

Still is. Your son could get vaccinated and go to work. Or quit, and find a job that doesn't require vaccination. Those are his CHOICES he still has.

Oops, you've gone off the rails. This makes zero sense.
Unfortunately he has bought into conspiracy theory nonsense and of course he does not apply the same standards to his beliefs as he does to others. When it comes to forced vaccinations that is quite often decided by the employer. An employer does have that right. He may not understand it, but an employer could conceivably be sued if an employee was a vector of a disease that is controllable. No one is forcing people to work at those jobs so he has no complaints there. This site is a bit out of date, it is pre-Covid, but you can see different state requirements for different vaccines for different health care facilities. There is no "one size fits all" law. For example hospitals with maternity wards quite often have state laws that say that workers have to get a rubella vaccine:


It of course does not even go over workplaces that require vaccinations on their own. And many can and do do that. Nursing homes for example often require a flu vaccine for everyone. The flu is not life threatening if one is generally in one's sixties or less. Over that and it starts to be a concern.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
LOL... If you taught for 25 years, you need to exercise that capacity in your global broad brush statement.. maybe your age?
I fail to see how what I posted was supposedly a "broad brush statement", especially since I don't use stereotypes.
I'm a lot deeper than just a simple epidermis-style "I have you in a box" position..
Where did I supposedly assume that? What I judged is your support for a former president who is clearly a danger to our democracy and is immoral and dishonest on multiple counts. The fact that you can't even see that is quite troubling from any Judeo-Christian perspective.
What is garbage, current or past, is highly subjective. Plus, we aren't God determines who He wants to use and not us.
I don't think sin is "highly subjective".
Saul had a horrible garbage past but God said, "I think I will make him Paul for my use".
Simon was a cusser but Jesus say Peter.
David was a murdering adulterer, but God saw him as a friend.
Balaam wanted money - God used him to bless Israel.
So, this is an excuse to ignore what Trump and many of his supporters have done? That's not what Jesus taught. Maybe reread the Sermon On the Mount and then Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats.
:) Which one is Dr. Jekyll and which one is Mr. Hyde?
They won't admit that they have anything to do with me. :mad:
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Facts are not the same thing as expert opinions.
Yes. I told you that: "Vetted experts are a much more reliable source of facts than "ordinary people." People pay them for their expertise"

Did you have a larger point? Did you have a rebuttal to the comment, or just this deflection?
if you think that because of a choice between two people who have issues qualifies for "that tells me a lot" gives the hue that you are a single issue person.
The evangelicals voted for him to criminalize abortion. Those are your one-issue voters.

And I agree with her. You voted for Trump twice? I have the same single issue, but maybe you consider it two issues. Like her and most humanists, I don't approve of either immorality or incompetence in a president, and I don't need to know anything else at all about a person if I know that person finds Trump acceptable.

Sorry if that offends you, but that's how it is. What's really dispiriting is that you're a professional Christian teaching other Christians who believe you have a connection to the source of truth and morality what is true and what is good.

You'd vote for Trump again now in 2024 if you could, right (you can add dementia to immorality and incompetence at governance, and a few mental illnesses to boot: Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy are the dark triad)? He attacked the United States of America and committed multiple crimes against it, and is likely to have been convicted of a few of them before then, but he'll support your church, and what else really matters, right? Certainly not democracy, the Constitution, egalitarianism, or the rule of law - just your Great Commission, right. That's one issue.
What a joke -- " Vax or lose Job" - is coercion .. which is a form of forced compliance
Your son wasn't entitled to his job. Work has to be mutually agreeable. His boss has no duty to keep him on once he won't meet the requirements for the job. Of course, it wasn't coercion. either, nor oppression nor tyranny as many like to call not being able to do whatever they like. Coercion is "the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats." His boss simply didn't want him on the premises unvaccinated even if he would have been willing to work for free.
Your claim that "Unless someone holds the person down" it is not force
And she's right. NOBODY was forced to get vaccines except some minor children who were literally held down and injected against their protestations. Everybody else either took one voluntarily or refused the vaccine.
My body my choice no more I guess aye "Skeptic" ? If the Gov't threatens abortion providers with "FORCE" -- laws banning the procedure and stiff penalties for providers
Now THAT is coercion by the definition above, since the use of force is implied, but even then, people have the freedom to get abortions elsewhere, and they are. People in Missouri are going to Ilinois for their abortions:

"An island in ‘abortion access desert’ The Fairview Heights clinic – and a partner facility in nearby Granite City, Illinois – expect the number of abortion patients in southern Illinois to double to about 14,000 per year with Roe’s fall." https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/15/us/illinois-abortion-oasis-roe-wade/index.html
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I fail to see how what I posted was supposedly a "broad brush statement", especially since I don't use stereotypes.

Seemed to me that if you can categorize a person on the basis of two presidential free-will voting opportunities, it seems like a broad brush to me.

Where did I supposedly assume that? What I judged is your support for a former president who is clearly a danger to our democracy and is immoral and dishonest on multiple counts. The fact that you can't even see that is quite troubling from any Judeo-Christian perspective.
I find Biden a danger to our Republic. I also see Trump as a danger to our Republic. I hope that Congress can tow the line and prevent that from happening.

My very personal shot in the sky viewpoint is that I see the Democratic party as a danger to our Republic. My very personal prediction is that the Republican party will in position be the new centrist Democratic party and a third party - the religious conservative right, will form a new party.

I don't think sin is "highly subjective".

It is when one shuts their eyes and says "there are no sins" - make it subjective.

So, this is an excuse to ignore what Trump and many of his supporters have done? That's not what Jesus taught. Maybe reread the Sermon On the Mount and then Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats.

That is the funny part... who is ignoring what?

It reminds me of Jesus eating with the Zacchaeus crowd. "God doesn't associate or use those awful sinners!" Makes one wonder who were the sinners, the one who pointed the finger or the one who Jesus ate with. I've come to realize that God will use a donkey if He needs to whether or not I agree with Him.

They won't admit that they have anything to do with me. :mad:

ROFL
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The evangelicals voted for him to criminalize abortion. Those are your one-issue voters.

And I agree with her. You voted for Trump twice? I have the same single issue, but maybe you consider it two issues. Like her and most humanists, I don't approve of either immorality or incompetence in a president, and I don't need to know anything else at all about a person if I know that person finds Trump acceptable.

Sorry if that offends you, but that's how it is. What's really dispiriting is that you're a professional Christian teaching other Christians who believe you have a connection to the source of truth and morality what is true and what is good.

You'd vote for Trump again now in 2024 if you could, right (you can add dementia to immorality and incompetence at governance, and a few mental illnesses to boot: Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy are the dark triad)? He attacked the United States of America and committed multiple crimes against it, and is likely to have been convicted of a few of them before then, but he'll support your church, and what else really matters, right? Certainly not democracy, the Constitution, egalitarianism, or the rule of law - just your Great Commission, right. That's one issue.
Are you a Marxist Communist? Socialist? Atheist totalitarian?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Nope, let's add burden of proof to the many concepts that you do not understand.

And why did you link a failed conspiracy theorist?

The "Failed Conspiracy theorist" goes over some studies in peer reviewed journals .. so never mind him but, do mind the studies presented :) Har har .. and what is it about "Ad Hom Fallacy" did you not understand.

Now look friend -- I know you have some hurtebutt because your necessary illusion delusion bubble was challenged .. and can not understand why beloved Gov't and various Health care institutions would like .. and you do not understand the science at all .. but you do not need to understand the science friend .. your problem is not understanding basic logic - logical fallacy - what constitutes a valid argument.

Now -- crying out "John Hopkins said the vax is safe and effective" is what we call "Appeal to authority Fallacy" and this in no way shows that your claim is true .. KK !?

Now listen up .. the main metric by which "Safety" is measured - SAR - Severe Adverse Reaction. .. u understand ? "Main Metric" somethign by which we can "Measure" whether the Jab is safe or not.

What is the SAR for the mRNA vaccines -- Moderna - Pfizer .. many studies combine and average the two .. if you don't wish to accept the value you have been given .. a Stat that you requested crying out "I want the Statistics" That number was 1 in 800 -- was a combined average Moderna-Pfizer.

You claim the Vax is "Safe" .. as does most every other Gov't - Health site on the continent .. I have told yo uthat 1 in 800 SAR is not "Safe" not by any stretch of the imagination. You can not handle this reality .. and so engage in all kinds of fallacious nonsense trying to avoid reality .. that Beloved Gov't has been lying to you .. crying out "Conspiracy, Conspiracy" If you don't like my numbers .. then provide your own .. This should be readilly available .. and were those laughable Gov't sources you love have any credibility what so ever .. they will advise you what the SAR is no the pill you are talking .. so should be real easy to find .. perhaps look further into the John Hopkins site .. see if they ever justify the Gov't propaganda trope they .. and most other Health institutions post .. and of course then you posted it as well .. falling hook - line and sinker .. because you don't understand what a valid argument is .. nor scientific proof and how it works .. which is not " Doctor said so it must be true"

Metrics you see .. in science we measure things .. u understand "Measure" .. that is how you show a claim true or false. And just because the guy showing you findings from a Journal article is a "Conspiracy theorist .. or a moron .. or a fool" does not make the findings of the journal article false .. has no bearing on it in fact .. Thinking Ad Hom Fallacy has merit is what is foolish .... and so enough of that .. and lets get to the measurement.

What is the SAR of the Jab you think you are justified to force on everyone else .. the jab which is not safe .. and certainly not effective .. not effective at preventing transmission .. nor effective in reducing risk of harm unless one is severely immune compromized and already near deaths door.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
No, you did that. Don't you dare trying to put that on me.

YOU said this:

"Sounds like you the one shouting fire in theatre friend -- "Preventable How" ? How were these Covid deaths preventable Doc .. other than eathing less donuts throughout one's life ..."


It's true. Sorry you don't seem to like it. But the vaccine saved lives. Which you seem to acknowledge above while simultaneously denying it. LOL

I'm sorry you don't seem to think that the lives of overweight and immuno-compromised people and "nearly dead" people are valuable, but I do. I find your view of them rather sickening.

You told us you don't know how vaccines work. Several times.

Rambling ...

More rambling and already addressed.

It helped stopped hospitals from being overwhelmed, which saves lives overall. As already pointed out.

You're out to lunch, bud. Your beliefs fly in the face of reality.

You know what significantly slowed down the spread of COVID - the vaccine. Herd immunity. You're welcome.

More rambling and conspiracy theory nonsense ...

More conspiracy nonsense. Ho hum.

I havn't said anything about any conspiracy ... but that said .. only a moron does not think conspiracies exist so what is the purpose of running around crying "Conspiracy" failing to state what this conspiracy even is .. in hopes of deflecting from your your failure to support your claims.

1) Your claim the vax was effective at preventing transmission is false nonsense .. a claim for which you have given no valid support and sorry .. running around crying conspiracy is not support for claim. Even Propaganda Central CDC has admitted the vax does not prevent transmission .. which kind of precludes this treatment from even being called a Vax .. chaning the definition of Vax in of itself is a falsehood.

2) your claim that masking and lockdowns worked .. is preposterous false nonsense .. obviously the lockdown and mask path we followed was a complete failure .. failing to prevent or significantly slow transmission. What part of near everyone has has Covid at least once .. do you not understand ? Transmission was not prevented and crying conspiracy conspiracy will in desperate attempt at denial not change this fact.


You were lied to .. sorry .. no need to shoot the messenger .. it is not his fault you drank the spiked kool-aid and were duped into running around like someone yelled fire in a crowded theater .. wanting to force your desire to Jab people into law .. Yeah friend.. that is you running around crying "Fire Fire" .. not me :)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The "Failed Conspiracy theorist" goes over some studies in peer reviewed journals .. so never mind him but, do mind the studies presented :) Har har .. and what is it about "Ad Hom Fallacy" did you not understand.

Now look friend -- I know you have some hurtebutt because your necessary illusion delusion bubble was challenged .. and can not understand why beloved Gov't and various Health care institutions would like .. and you do not understand the science at all .. but you do not need to understand the science friend .. your problem is not understanding basic logic - logical fallacy - what constitutes a valid argument.

Now -- crying out "John Hopkins said the vax is safe and effective" is what we call "Appeal to authority Fallacy" and this in no way shows that your claim is true .. KK !?

Now listen up .. the main metric by which "Safety" is measured - SAR - Severe Adverse Reaction. .. u understand ? "Main Metric" somethign by which we can "Measure" whether the Jab is safe or not.

What is the SAR for the mRNA vaccines -- Moderna - Pfizer .. many studies combine and average the two .. if you don't wish to accept the value you have been given .. a Stat that you requested crying out "I want the Statistics" That number was 1 in 800 -- was a combined average Moderna-Pfizer.

You claim the Vax is "Safe" .. as does most every other Gov't - Health site on the continent .. I have told yo uthat 1 in 800 SAR is not "Safe" not by any stretch of the imagination. You can not handle this reality .. and so engage in all kinds of fallacious nonsense trying to avoid reality .. that Beloved Gov't has been lying to you .. crying out "Conspiracy, Conspiracy" If you don't like my numbers .. then provide your own .. This should be readilly available .. and were those laughable Gov't sources you love have any credibility what so ever .. they will advise you what the SAR is no the pill you are talking .. so should be real easy to find .. perhaps look further into the John Hopkins site .. see if they ever justify the Gov't propaganda trope they .. and most other Health institutions post .. and of course then you posted it as well .. falling hook - line and sinker .. because you don't understand what a valid argument is .. nor scientific proof and how it works .. which is not " Doctor said so it must be true"

Metrics you see .. in science we measure things .. u understand "Measure" .. that is how you show a claim true or false. And just because the guy showing you findings from a Journal article is a "Conspiracy theorist .. or a moron .. or a fool" does not make the findings of the journal article false .. has no bearing on it in fact .. Thinking Ad Hom Fallacy has merit is what is foolish .... and so enough of that .. and lets get to the measurement.

What is the SAR of the Jab you think you are justified to force on everyone else .. the jab which is not safe .. and certainly not effective .. not effective at preventing transmission .. nor effective in reducing risk of harm unless one is severely immune compromized and already near deaths door.
No links, yet you use statistics that scream for links. So I searched using your acronym. Nothing. So I wrote it out without the abbreviation. Again, that phrase does not turn up in studies that I could find. That is a very bad sign for your claim. But I did find this:


Just in case the title does not come up:

"Serious adverse events of special interest following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in randomized trials in adults"

" Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 and 42.2 (95 % CI -0.4 to 20.6 and -3.6 to 33.8), respectively. Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated (95 % CI 2.1 to 22.9); risk ratio 1.43 (95 % CI 1.07 to 1.92). The Pfizer trial exhibited a 36 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group; risk difference 18.0 per 10,000 vaccinated (95 % CI 1.2 to 34.9); risk ratio 1.36 (95 % CI 1.02 to 1.83). The Moderna trial exhibited a 6 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group: risk difference 7.1 per 10,000 (95 % CI -23.2 to 37.4); risk ratio 1.06 (95 % CI 0.84 to 1.33). Combined, there was a 16 % higher risk of serious adverse events in mRNA vaccine recipients: risk difference 13.2 (95 % CI -3.2 to 29.6); risk ratio 1.16 (95 % CI 0.97 to 1.39)."

Just in case you cannot do the math that is 1 to 1.5 out of a thousand for Moderna and up to 1.8 out of a thousand for Pfizer's vaccine. Not even close to your numbers..
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I know you are triggered .. unable to do anything but cry out "Wrong wrong wrong" .. no idea what an argument is about the only thing here that is obvious.

What did you think was wrong friend .. I can't help you if you have no clue what you are talking about -- can't state what you thought was wrong.
I choose not to argue with fanatics. Doesn’t mean I’m triggered.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Yes. I told you that: "Vetted experts are a much more reliable source of facts than "ordinary people." People pay them for their expertise"

Did you have a larger point? Did you have a rebuttal to the comment, or just this deflection?

The evangelicals voted for him to criminalize abortion. Those are your one-issue voters.

And I agree with her. You voted for Trump twice? I have the same single issue, but maybe you consider it two issues. Like her and most humanists, I don't approve of either immorality or incompetence in a president, and I don't need to know anything else at all about a person if I know that person finds Trump acceptable.

Sorry if that offends you, but that's how it is. What's really dispiriting is that you're a professional Christian teaching other Christians who believe you have a connection to the source of truth and morality what is true and what is good.

You'd vote for Trump again now in 2024 if you could, right (you can add dementia to immorality and incompetence at governance, and a few mental illnesses to boot: Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy are the dark triad)? He attacked the United States of America and committed multiple crimes against it, and is likely to have been convicted of a few of them before then, but he'll support your church, and what else really matters, right? Certainly not democracy, the Constitution, egalitarianism, or the rule of law - just your Great Commission, right. That's one issue.

Your son wasn't entitled to his job. Work has to be mutually agreeable. His boss has no duty to keep him on once he won't meet the requirements for the job. Of course, it wasn't coercion. either, nor oppression nor tyranny as many like to call not being able to do whatever they like. Coercion is "the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats." His boss simply didn't want him on the premises unvaccinated even if he would have been willing to work for free.

And she's right. NOBODY was forced to get vaccines except some minor children who were literally held down and injected against their protestations. Everybody else either took one voluntarily or refused the vaccine.

Now THAT is coercion by the definition above, since the use of force is implied, but even then, people have the freedom to get abortions elsewhere, and they are. People in Missouri are going to Ilinois for their abortions:

"An island in ‘abortion access desert’ The Fairview Heights clinic – and a partner facility in nearby Granite City, Illinois – expect the number of abortion patients in southern Illinois to double to about 14,000 per year with Roe’s fall." https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/15/us/illinois-abortion-oasis-roe-wade/index.html

Absolute nonsense .. your claim - that give boss a blowjob or lose job is perfectly fine --- as nobody held her down .. and it is not force or coercion.. and triple nonsense about having ot to leave the State ... although that would be enough .. but leave the nation..

Loopy De Doopy logic .. Jab or lose job = FORCE/Coercian and this has absolutely nothing to do with agreed upon conditions prior to employment .. a final big big fail no body no choice sport .. its called Facism - authoritarianism .. and other nastier names ... such as hatred for the founding principle .. deep hatred at that .. Zero respect for individual liberty .. not even considered in the equation .. the safeguards evaded by fallacious utilitarianism. and when you are done explaining to me what that is .. you will be on the path to correcting your horrible error .. = the error of fallacious utilitariaism as justification for Law..

Hint: "If it saves one life" .. is not valid justification for law messing with essential liberty .. in a constitutional republic .. yAHHH .. COMPRENDE VOUS ?? ... got some explaining to do have you.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
No links, yet you use statistics that scream for links. So I searched using your acronym. Nothing. So I wrote it out without the abbreviation. Again, that phrase does not turn up in studies that I could find. That is a very bad sign for your claim. But I did find this:


Just in case the title does not come up:

"Serious adverse events of special interest following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in randomized trials in adults"

" Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 and 42.2 (95 % CI -0.4 to 20.6 and -3.6 to 33.8), respectively. Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated (95 % CI 2.1 to 22.9); risk ratio 1.43 (95 % CI 1.07 to 1.92). The Pfizer trial exhibited a 36 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group; risk difference 18.0 per 10,000 vaccinated (95 % CI 1.2 to 34.9); risk ratio 1.36 (95 % CI 1.02 to 1.83). The Moderna trial exhibited a 6 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group: risk difference 7.1 per 10,000 (95 % CI -23.2 to 37.4); risk ratio 1.06 (95 % CI 0.84 to 1.33). Combined, there was a 16 % higher risk of serious adverse events in mRNA vaccine recipients: risk difference 13.2 (95 % CI -3.2 to 29.6); risk ratio 1.16 (95 % CI 0.97 to 1.39)."

Just in case you cannot do the math that is 1 to 1.5 out of a thousand for Moderna and up to 1.8 out of a thousand for Pfizer's vaccine. Not even close to your numbers..

There are all kinds of different numbers .. many different studdies .. and your number is super close to my number 1-1000 in this study .. the study I quoted 1-800 .. is ridiculously close .. statistically the same number in context demonstrating your lack of understanding ... Ummmmm "Just in case you can not do the math" which was unfortunately the case.

BUT -- that aside .. Excellent job at making an argument .. supporting your claim with numbers .. but unfortunately .. you missed the part about explaining what the number means .. is 1-1000 1-1800 safe ? is 1 in 100 not safe .. 1 in 2000 safe ?

What is Safe ? and I gave you links previously .. our good friend John Campbell which you said was your favorite conspiracy theorist .. but never mind.

What is considered "Safe " you claimed this drug was "Safe" . part of your justification for wishing to force it on others so what is the deal here .. are you claiming that an SAR of 1-1800 is SAFE ?
 
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