Supreme Court rules in case of Colorado bakery

[Thief]

*sigh*

42 U.S. Code § 2000a - Prohibition against discrimination or segregation in places of public accommodation

States have the right to expand on this to include any group of citizens, which Colorado has done.

Public Accommodations Discrimination | Department of Regulatory Agencies

thank you.....

but i would reserve the inclination to make denial

and apparently .....a court has stated as much

I don't have to work for you if I don't want to

 

[Jainarayan]

thank you.....

but i would reserve the inclination to make denial

and apparently .....a court has stated as much

I don't have to work for you if I don't want to

The court did not state anything other than the CCRC worded their decision to be perceived as biased. They did not rule in favor of the baker's religious freedom. It never got that far.

And it's true most states are at-will employment. Few, if any, are right-to-work states. An employee can be fired for any or no reason, with or without notice, unless there's overt discrimination. If my employer says "You're fired, a gay person doesn't represent our company well", guess what... lawsuit! But if they say "meh, we can't use you anymore" I have no recourse. Conversely, I can walk out the door on a moment's notice without any repercussion. It's my right to fire my employer too.

 

[Thief]

I can walk out the door on a moment's notice without any repercussion.

lack of recommendation can be serious

 

[Jainarayan]

lack of recommendation can be serious

They can’t do that without repercussions to them. In fact, legal references can only ask for employment verification. Anything else is out of bounds and subject to legal action. My (former) employer cannot say “he was a bad employee” or use my reviews.

 

[Thief]

They can’t do that without repercussions to them. In fact, legal references can only ask for employment verification. Anything else is out of bounds and subject to legal action. My (former) employer cannot say “he was a bad employee” or use my reviews.

If I call your former employer....
and he answers with....."I can't say"

that would be a deal breaker

 

[ecco]

If I call your former employer....
and he answers with....."I can't say"

that would be a deal breaker

I guess you haven't been hiring for the past 20 years. Ex-employers haven't been giving out much more than bare minimum information for many years. Fear of law suits and all that.

 

[Thief]

I guess you haven't been hiring for the past 20 years. Ex-employers haven't been giving out much more than bare minimum information for many years. Fear of law suits and all that.

and in recent years......

...I am TRUE TO LIFE .....shop hopper
I have been the circuit in my home town
now I rent an apartment and go home on the weekends

It's simple....picture two (or several) machine shop owners......playing golf

I won't hire your guy if you don't hire mine
I won't pay more than $***** if you don't either

and yes.....I know this happens.......I am more than sure of it

so.....having been set aside for the sake of the bossman's son
having been turned loose for the sake of the company suck up
having been laid off as the company sells off to foreign interest.......

silence is a death knell if your next prospective employer is doing a background check

 

[ecco]

and in recent years......

...I am TRUE TO LIFE .....shop hopper
I have been the circuit in my home town
now I rent an apartment and go home on the weekends

It's simple....picture two (or several) machine shop owners......playing golf

I won't hire your guy if you don't hire mine
I won't pay more than $***** if you don't either

and yes.....I know this happens.......I am more than sure of it

so.....having been set aside for the sake of the bossman's son
having been turned loose for the sake of the company suck up
having been laid off as the company sells off to foreign interest.......

silence is a death knell if your next prospective employer is doing a background check

?

 

[Cooky]

So, if I were to start a religion that objected to (say) black people or Catholics can I now get away of refusing to bake a cake for them?

That's exactly who the kkk hates -Catholics and black people... But they're scared to death of the mafia.

I watched a documentary on the kkk, and the FBI actually hired Mafia hitman Gregory Scarpa, aka "The Grim Reaper", to intimidate kkk members.

When The FBI Hired A Mafia Hitman To Help Solve A Murder By Threatening The KKK

 

[Cooky]

If I get a bakery, I'm going to refuse to make cakes for Catholic weddings because it imposes a serious infringement upon my beliefs to do such a thing where the highest ranking officials are accomplices is child abuse. Nor will I make cakes for Evangelicals, as they not only infringe upon my religious views, they want to impose their own religious views of morality upon me, and everybody else.

Don't be suprised when protestors break your windows and run you out of business.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Don't be suprised when protestors break your windows and run you out of business.

And I'll be very eager to point out to them that their behaviors are making Jesus shake his head in disapproval. And remind them that, hey, this is exactly how they wanted the law.

 

[Cooky]

And I'll be very eager to point out to them that their behaviors are making Jesus shake his head in disapproval. And remind them that, hey, this is exactly how they wanted the law.

Maybe you have a good point afterall. Personally, I think Christians who refuse to bake cakes for gay people are jerks.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's exactly who the kkk hates -Catholics and black people... But they're scared to death of the mafia.

I think just about everyone is scared of the mafia, lol. At least it shows the Klan are capable of rational thought.

 

[Jainarayan]

If I call your former employer....
and he answers with....."I can't say"

that would be a deal breaker

He can't say what? That I was a bad employee? He's the better employer for abiding by the law. You would be the unethical employer, and it would be just as well I wasn't hired.

 

[Thief]

He can't say what? That I was a bad employee? He's the better employer for abiding by the law. You would be the unethical employer, and it would be just as well I wasn't hired.

you don't seem to get it....

it's positive recommendation.....or silence

silence...in this case.....is not golden

 

[Poisonshady313]

Alas, that's not our legal environment.
So the question is to what extent government compels service to whom.
Compelled speech...should I be forced to bake a cake which says...
"Atheists will rot in hell"?
I don't know where the line will eventually be drawn.

Personally, I think the line that should be drawn is one making a more useful distinction between what is and is not considered public accommodation.

In my view, the use of establishments that provide goods and services in a unique and creative manner (bakeries, tattoo parlors, sign makers, etc...) shouldn't be thought of as public accommodation. Owners of such institutions should have veto power over what they will or will not create, regardless of who the client may be.

A Christian baker should be able to refuse to create a cake for a same sex wedding.
A gay baker should be able to refuse to create a cake for a Catholic wedding.
A vegan sign maker should be able to refuse to create a sign for a meatpacker's convention.
A Muslim tattoo artist should be able to refuse to create a "Muhammad wearing a bomb in his turban" tattoo for a Danish cartoonist's forearm.
An atheist cake maker should be able to refuse to create an "Atheists will rot in hell" cake.

The client should take their business elsewhere. Maybe write a bad yelp review. But the owner should NOT be forced to create something he or she refuses to create, and the owner should NOT be sued for discrimination.

 

[fantome profane]

Owners of such institutions should have veto power over what they will or will not create, regardless of who the client may be.

That is another distinction that should be considered. Should a sign painter be allowed to refuse to sell a sign that says “Yard Sale” if the people buying it are a gay couple?

 

[ecco]

you don't seem to get it....

it's positive recommendation.....or silence

silence...in this case.....is not golden

You're the one who doesn't get it. Probably because you haven't ever hired anyone. It's not about positive recommendation or silence.

It's about Yes he worked here from date to date; No he never worked here.

Nothing positive, nothing negative. Period.

It's not about laws, it's about lawsuits.

 

[ecco]

In my view, the use of establishments that provide goods and services in a unique and creative manner (bakeries, tattoo parlors, sign makers, etc...) shouldn't be thought of as public accommodation. Owners of such institutions should have veto power over what they will or will not create, regardless of who the client may be.

So...
If I own a fine dining restaurant and hire creative chefs, I can refuse service to blacks.
If I am an artistic baker, I can refuse service to Jews.

That's your concept of public accommodation?

 

[Revoltingest]

Personally, I think the line that should be drawn is one making a more useful distinction between what is and is not considered public accommodation.

In my view, the use of establishments that provide goods and services in a unique and creative manner (bakeries, tattoo parlors, sign makers, etc...) shouldn't be thought of as public accommodation. Owners of such institutions should have veto power over what they will or will not create, regardless of who the client may be.

A Christian baker should be able to refuse to create a cake for a same sex wedding.
A gay baker should be able to refuse to create a cake for a Catholic wedding.
A vegan sign maker should be able to refuse to create a sign for a meatpacker's convention.
A Muslim tattoo artist should be able to refuse to create a "Muhammad wearing a bomb in his turban" tattoo for a Danish cartoonist's forearm.
An atheist cake maker should be able to refuse to create an "Atheists will rot in hell" cake.

The client should take their business elsewhere. Maybe write a bad yelp review. But the owner should NOT be forced to create something he or she refuses to create, and the owner should NOT be sued for discrimination.

I'd say that under the law, the baker should sell a generic
cake for a gay wedding, but not be compelled to create
some message or embellishmentwhich offends the baker