Symptoms vs Cause

[loverofhumanity]

Dear friends,

Recently I began experiencing symptoms of muscular pain so I bought foot and shoulder massagers but the pain did not subside. Then the other day I suffered acute nausea for days but after consulting a Dr took electrolyte drinks and felt better. But then I noticed I struggled to walk and could hear thumping palpitations in my ears and called an ambulance. It turned out it wasn’t what we thought it was and I was on the verge of death with my haemoglobin count of 6 I did sign myself out but when they checked my blood count again they urgently called me for 3 blood transfusions. Initially it was 8.5.

Now unfortunately too, this seems to be the way of the world treating the symptoms such as printing more money, or buying more military hardware while humanity’s condition worsens due to incompetent physicians putting a bandage on the sickness. Our pride denies us to admit we’ve got it wrong and our condition I believe will worsen and force us to turn to the Divine Physician.

The Diagnosis

Its (humanity’s) sickness is approaching the stage of utter hopelessness, inasmuch as the true Physician is debarred from administering the remedy, whilst unskilled practitioners are regarded with favour, and are accorded full freedom to act.
Bahá’u’lláh

The Remedy

That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.
Bahá’u’lláh

This is not about conversion, changing religion or joining the Baha’i Faith but about ‘all men being as brothers’ If we all considered one another brothers and sisters how could we just stand by and watch the injustices in the world. When people wanted same sex marriage there was a great movement around the world to bring about change so people can bring about change if they really want to but it’s up to us not the politicians. Unless we care and unite together, injustices will continue.

 

[Left Coast]

Dear friends,

Recently I began experiencing symptoms of muscular pain so I bought foot and shoulder massagers but the pain did not subside. Then the other day I suffered acute nausea for days but after consulting a Dr took electrolyte drinks and felt better. But then I noticed I struggled to walk and could hear thumping palpitations in my ears and called an ambulance. It turned out it wasn’t what we thought it was and I was on the verge of death with my haemoglobin count of 6 I did sign myself out but when they checked my blood count again they urgently called me for 3 blood transfusions. Initially it was 8.5.

Now unfortunately too, this seems to be the way of the world treating the symptoms such as printing more money, or buying more military hardware while humanity’s condition worsens due to incompetent physicians putting a bandage on the sickness. Our pride denies us to admit we’ve got it wrong and our condition I believe will worsen and force us to turn to the Divine Physician.

The Diagnosis

Its (humanity’s) sickness is approaching the stage of utter hopelessness, inasmuch as the true Physician is debarred from administering the remedy, whilst unskilled practitioners are regarded with favour, and are accorded full freedom to act.
Bahá’u’lláh

The Remedy

That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.
Bahá’u’lláh

This is not about conversion, changing religion or joining the Baha’i Faith but about ‘all men being as brothers’ If we all considered one another brothers and sisters how could we just stand by and watch the injustices in the world. When people wanted same sex marriage there was a great movement around the world to bring about change so people can bring about change if they really want to but it’s up to us not the politicians. Unless we care and unite together, injustices will continue.

Unity certainly has value if we care about fostering a sense of global cooperation and interdependence. If we're so antagonistic toward one another we can't even have a respectful dialogue about our views, we're sunk.

That said, too much unity can also hinder us. It can lead to groupthink and the stifling of minority rights and opinions.

IMHO, we need to strike a balance between enough unity to recognize our common humanity and cooperate, but also maintain freedom of speech, religion, and so on, so we can foster constructive dialogue and debate when we disagree.

 

[danieldemol]

Our pride denies us to admit we’ve got it wrong and our condition I believe will worsen and force us to turn to the Divine Physician.

Irony alert. It is our pride in my view, which lead us to declare whichever human reinforces our biases as "the divine physician" without any adequate demonstration that they are divine more than any other human in the first place.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Unity certainly has value if we care about fostering a sense of global cooperation and interdependence. If we're so antagonistic toward one another we can't even have a respectful dialogue about our views, we're sunk.

That said, too much unity can also hinder us. It can lead to groupthink and the stifling of minority rights and opinions.

IMHO, we need to strike a balance between enough unity to recognize our common humanity and cooperate, but also maintain freedom of speech, religion, and so on, so we can foster constructive dialogue and debate when we disagree.

100% agree. One of the major problems I think, is that most people think it’s all up to politicians but it doesn’t work that way because they usually follow public opinion. So no strong objection to something will see a Luke-warm response from leaders. Problems won’t be addressed unless we unite and ask for them to be addressed. People in general are not trained in public discourse so very little action occurs but thanks to forums like this and the internet, people are able to develop a collective voice worldwide. But this process takes time so all we can do is try and stir the conscience of humanity in our collective communications.

 

[sun rise]

Its (humanity’s) sickness is approaching the stage of utter hopelessness,

First, I hope your medical issues are now resolved - you had a much too close call.

To me what is going on goes far beyond politics. My understanding is that we're living in an era unparalleled in human history. It is an era that has been prophesied by religious scriptures whether they be Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and so forth. Each religion has a different formulation and each expects a new era where their belief is triumphant. But to me we're on the cusp of something brand new and most wonderful.

We can all help that birth by acts of kindness however apparently small.

 

[loverofhumanity]

First, I hope your medical issues are now resolved - you had a much too close call.

To me what is going on goes far beyond politics. My understanding is that we're living in an era unparalleled in human history. It is an era that has been prophesied by religious scriptures whether they be Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and so forth. Each religion has a different formulation and each expects a new era where their belief is triumphant. But to me we're on the cusp of something brand new and most wonderful.

We can all help that birth by acts of kindness however apparently small.

Thanks, so, so much for your kind words. A wonderful neighbour drove me to hospital last night. She saved my life. I shouldn’t be here except for another’s kindness. So I’m so happy just to talk to you guys and tell you you’re all special and wonderful in your own way.

 

[Audie]

Dear friends,

Recently I began experiencing symptoms of muscular pain so I bought foot and shoulder massagers but the pain did not subside. Then the other day I suffered acute nausea for days but after consulting a Dr took electrolyte drinks and felt better. But then I noticed I struggled to walk and could hear thumping palpitations in my ears and called an ambulance. It turned out it wasn’t what we thought it was and I was on the verge of death with my haemoglobin count of 6 I did sign myself out but when they checked my blood count again they urgently called me for 3 blood transfusions. Initially it was 8.5.

Now unfortunately too, this seems to be the way of the world treating the symptoms such as printing more money, or buying more military hardware while humanity’s condition worsens due to incompetent physicians putting a bandage on the sickness. Our pride denies us to admit we’ve got it wrong and our condition I believe will worsen and force us to turn to the Divine Physician.

The Diagnosis

Its (humanity’s) sickness is approaching the stage of utter hopelessness, inasmuch as the true Physician is debarred from administering the remedy, whilst unskilled practitioners are regarded with favour, and are accorded full freedom to act.
Bahá’u’lláh

The Remedy

That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.
Bahá’u’lláh

This is not about conversion, changing religion or joining the Baha’i Faith but about ‘all men being as brothers’ If we all considered one another brothers and sisters how could we just stand by and watch the injustices in the world. When people wanted same sex marriage there was a great movement around the world to bring about change so people can bring about change if they really want to but it’s up to us not the politicians. Unless we care and unite together, injustices will continue.

There will be no unity if I'm anywhere you try to
impose your religious ideas.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There will be no unity if I'm anywhere you try to
impose your religious ideas.

Don’t worry I’ll keep my distance.

 

[Audie]

Don’t worry I’ll keep my distance.

I'm not very big but I bite.
Hard.

 

[ppp]

Dear friends,

Recently I began experiencing symptoms of muscular pain so I bought foot and shoulder massagers but the pain did not subside. Then the other day I suffered acute nausea for days but after consulting a Dr took electrolyte drinks and felt better. But then I noticed I struggled to walk and could hear thumping palpitations in my ears and called an ambulance. It turned out it wasn’t what we thought it was and I was on the verge of death with my haemoglobin count of 6 I did sign myself out but when they checked my blood count again they urgently called me for 3 blood transfusions. Initially it was 8.5.

Now unfortunately too, this seems to be the way of the world treating the symptoms such as printing more money, or buying more military hardware while humanity’s condition worsens due to incompetent physicians putting a bandage on the sickness. Our pride denies us to admit we’ve got it wrong and our condition I believe will worsen and force us to turn to the Divine Physician.

The Diagnosis

Its (humanity’s) sickness is approaching the stage of utter hopelessness, inasmuch as the true Physician is debarred from administering the remedy, whilst unskilled practitioners are regarded with favour, and are accorded full freedom to act.
Bahá’u’lláh

The Remedy

That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.
Bahá’u’lláh

This is not about conversion, changing religion or joining the Baha’i Faith but about ‘all men being as brothers’ If we all considered one another brothers and sisters how could we just stand by and watch the injustices in the world. When people wanted same sex marriage there was a great movement around the world to bring about change so people can bring about change if they really want to but it’s up to us not the politicians. Unless we care and unite together, injustices will continue.

I am sorry for your pains, and truly hope better for you.

But my sympathy for another human being does not blind me to the cycle of hollow claims, snakeoil promises, and unearned trust that you are attempting, both implicitly and explcitly, to cozen from your audience. It was not your "Divine Physician" who created the vaccines. It was not your "Divine Physician" who increased crop yields. It was not your "Divine Physician" who placed a leash on religions. It is not your "Divine Physician" who fought for abolition, or labor laws, or suffrage, or civil rights, or marriage equality, or AIDS research, or marriage or quality or trans rights. It is not your "Divine Physician" who checked your blood count again and called your urgently to rectify their mistake.

It was, is, and ever will be humans. Fleshy mortals. Us.

There are many people and organizations around the world, religious and secular, who have taken real actions in the real world for which I owe gratitude. Either on my behalf, or on the behalf of others. To what specific real actions in the real world do I have to be thankful to the Baha'i

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am sorry for your pains, and truly hope better for you.

But my sympathy for another human being does not blind me to the cycle of hollow claims, snakeoil promises, and unearned trust that you are attempting, both implicitly and explcitly, to cozen from your audience. It was not your "Divine Physician" who created the vaccines. It was not your "Divine Physician" who increased crop yields. It was not your "Divine Physician" who placed a leash on religions. It is not your "Divine Physician" who fought for abolition, or labor laws, or suffrage, or civil rights, or marriage equality, or AIDS research, or marriage or quality or trans rights. It is not your "Divine Physician" who checked your blood count again and called your urgently to rectify their mistake.

It was, is, and ever will be humans. Fleshy mortals. Us.

There are many people and organizations around the world, religious and secular, who have taken real actions in the real world for which I owe gratitude. Either on my behalf, or on the behalf of others. To what specific real actions in the real world do I have to be thankful to the Baha'i

Thanks very much.

That is so true. It’s people who need to act. And it’s people who are needed to create a better world. Where the ‘Divine Physician’ comes in is to create the impetus for major changes such as world peace, unity between races and religions and nations which humans so far have not been able to achieve or even gain much momentum in. We still have major racial problems, civil wars, problems between religions so what do you propose? Humans unitedly got same sex marriage but what about world peace, racial harmony and unity between nations? These issues are far more pressing and urgent.

The whole thing which is so important to me is not who gets credit or members or power but that we as humans look out for one another which we aren’t doing. It’s us humans who are causing each other angst so it’s us humans who need to fix our relationships with one another that of a more closely knit world. How we do that is controversial amongst ourselves but I think we can agree that us humans need to improve ourselves so we can live in peace and free from poverty and such.

 

[ppp]

That is so true. It’s people who need to act. And it’s people who are needed to create a better world. Where the ‘Divine Physician’ comes in is to create the impetus for major changes such as world peace, unity between races and religions and nations which humans so far have not been able to achieve or even gain much momentum in.

No religion has managed to acheive any significant saturation in the world without conquest, coersion and colonization.
How do you intend to convince the majority of the world to rally behind your Divine Physician?
How do you intend to convince people who do not believe that we should pretend otherwise?
How do you intend to convince people who do not believe in the supernatural that a society built on a lie is a good thing?

How do you intend to avoid becoming people who press their religious beliefs for The Greater Good (the greater good)?

To paraphrase Rex Stout, It's not enough to want to do a good deed. Wanting is fine, but you also need some slight idea how to go about it. When you don't understand how, you get the uneducated masses trying to acheive major social change. Think the Peasants' War in Germany, the Taiping Rebellion, the October Revolution, the Cambodian Revolution , the Iranian Revolt, Arab Spring. Full of idealists without a clue as to what they were doing. Which allowed some truly heinous people to rise to power.

We still have major racial problems, civil wars, problems between religions so what do you propose? Humans unitedly got same sex marriage but what about world peace, racial harmony and unity between nations? These issues are far more pressing and urgent.

What are you using to determing the hierarchy of urgency? You seem to also be implying that fighting against discrimination against LGBTQIA2+ folk is less important and less urgent than fighting against discrimination along racial lines. I cannot help but suspect that is because Baha'i discriminate against gays. You also seem to imply that we can only focus on one thing at a time.

The whole thing which is so important to me is not who gets credit or members or power but that we as humans look out for one another which we aren’t doing.

And yet your primary rallying point is around your Divine Physician

It’s us humans who are causing each other angst so it’s us humans who need to fix our relationships with one another that of a more closely knit world

I agree. But religion can never be the scaffold for that weave.

. How we do that is controversial amongst ourselves but I think we can agree that us humans need to improve ourselves so we can live in peace and free from poverty and such.

We need to raise up everyone who buys into the social contract.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Recently I began experiencing symptoms of muscular pain so I bought foot and shoulder massagers but the pain did not subside. Then the other day I suffered acute nausea for days but after consulting a Dr took electrolyte drinks and felt better. But then I noticed I struggled to walk and could hear thumping palpitations in my ears and called an ambulance. It turned out it wasn’t what we thought it was and I was on the verge of death with my haemoglobin count of 6 I did sign myself out but when they checked my blood count again they urgently called me for 3 blood transfusions. Initially it was 8.5.

I'm glad the doctors managed to diagnose the problem, and I wish you good health.

Take care.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No religion has managed to acheive any significant saturation in the world without conquest, coersion and colonization.
How do you intend to convince the majority of the world to rally behind your Divine Physician?
How do you intend to convince people who do not believe that we should pretend otherwise?
How do you intend to convince people who do not believe in the supernatural that a society built on a lie is a good thing?

How do you intend to avoid becoming people who press their religious beliefs for The Greater Good (the greater good)?

To paraphrase Rex Stout, It's not enough to want to do a good deed. Wanting is fine, but you also need some slight idea how to go about it. When you don't understand how, you get the uneducated masses trying to acheive major social change. Think the Peasants' War in Germany, the Taiping Rebellion, the October Revolution, the Cambodian Revolution , the Iranian Revolt, Arab Spring. Full of idealists without a clue as to what they were doing. Which allowed some truly heinous people to rise to power.


What are you using to determing the hierarchy of urgency? You seem to also be implying that fighting against discrimination against LGBTQIA2+ folk is less important and less urgent than fighting against discrimination along racial lines. I cannot help but suspect that is because Baha'i discriminate against gays. You also seem to imply that we can only focus on one thing at a time.


And yet your primary rallying point is around your Divine Physician

I agree. But religion can never be the scaffold for that weave.

We need to raise up everyone who buys into the social contract.

These matters all depend on people joining together for the common good. It depends on everyone wanting to make it work. It all depends on putting aside our differences and working together for the same goal such as to end war, racism, poverty and such.

To motivate people to come together to end wars and such will mean to me that we will require an adjustment in peoples relationships. Instead of ‘us and them’ I believe we need and are gravitating towards ‘us’ as in ‘we, humanity’. The Baha’i Cause is one way but not the only way. We see ourselves as a catalyst of sorts not the main protagonist to bring about a better world. Baha’is are only common folk who have joined together to show that we can have peace if we really want it because we are a world community composed of all races, religions and nations yet we get along.

So we spread sentiments like these below to accept both our commonness and diversity. We Baha’is don’t set the agenda, only try and lend impetus to the process of unity and peace which are not treaties but matters of heart and conscience.

"If you desire with all your heart, friendship with every race on earth, your thought, spiritual and positive, will spread; ibmill become the desire of others, growing strunger and stronger, until it reaches the minds of all men."

And this:

Love ye all religions and all races with a love that is true and sincere and show that love through deeds

 

[ppp]

These matters all depend on people joining together for the common good. It depends on everyone wanting to make it work. It all depends on putting aside our differences and working together for the same goal such as to end war, racism, poverty and such.

Baha'i beliefs are not good.. And are antithetical to the common good. They are just more of the same that we get from other religions who claim the same goals of an end to war, racism, poverty and such.

The Baha’i Cause is one way but not the only way. We see ourselves as a catalyst of sorts not the main protagonist to bring about a better world. Baha’is are only common folk who have joined together to show that we can have peace if we really want it because we are a world community composed of all races, religions and nations yet we get along.

The Baha'i Grater Peace is a world government (which is fine) to which the Baha'i Universal House servers as moral advisors.(which is not fine) Unsurprisingly, I dont believe you in this.

So we spread sentiments like these below to accept both our commonness and diversity. We Baha’is don’t set the agenda, only try and lend impetus to the process of unity and peace which are not treaties but matters of heart and conscience.

Baha'i discriminate against a tenth of the population.

And again what practical actions do Baha'i understake to help the world. SPreding sentiments is lovely, but it is not supportive action. Words are easy. Tell me about your deeds

 

[sun rise]

It’s people who need to act.

Attributed to St. Teresa of Avila is a quote I quite like:

Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which He looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which He walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which He blesses all the world.
Yours are the hands, yours are the feet,
Yours are the eyes, you are His body.

Love ye all religions and all races with a love that is true and sincere and show that love through deeds

“Aren’t all religions equally true? No, all religions are equally false. The relationship of religion to truth is like that of a menu to a meal. The menu describes the meal as best it can. It points to something beyond itself. As long as we use the menu as a guide we do it honor. When we mistake the menu for the meal, we do it and ourselves a grave injustice.” - Rabbi Rami Shapiro

 

[loverofhumanity]

Baha'i beliefs are not good.. And are antithetical to the common good. They are just more of the same that we get from other religions who claim the same goals of an end to war, racism, poverty and such.

The Baha'i Grater Peace is a world government (which is fine) to which the Baha'i Universal House servers as moral advisors.(which is not fine) Unsurprisingly, I dont believe you in this.


Baha'i discriminate against a tenth of the population.

And again what practical actions do Baha'i understake to help the world. SPreding sentiments is lovely, but it is not supportive action. Words are easy. Tell me about your deeds

Everything depends on the people of the world. Baha’is are a very small group. World peace will depend on everyone not us. The Baha’i system is only for Baha’is. The world is free to choose whichever system it likes. We believe that in order to solve many problems there are no shortcut. A change of heart is required. Until that happens humans will continue the way they are now.

 

[ChristineM]

Sorry for your medical problems but i am happy that the doctors have diagnosed the cause. Hope medication and your own will helps alleviate your troubles

 

[ppp]

Everything depends on the people of the world. Baha’is are a very small group. World peace will depend on everyone not us. The Baha’i system is only for Baha’is. The world is free to choose whichever system it likes. We believe that in order to solve many problems there are no shortcut. A change of heart is required. Until that happens humans will continue the way they are now.

Do you understand how disingenous it is to cite the Baha'i conceptions of a god as the solution for the whole freaking world, then when challenged on that notion to do a 180 degree flipand say that the Baha'i beliefs only apply to Baha'i? Y'all make these bold anougnement, but when given the most basic of scruitiny flip to, Who me? I didn't say any of the things I just said.

Also noted is that for an organization that is allegedly devoted to saving the world through your Greater Peace, that the as an organization Baha'i do remarkably little in the way of practical actions to improve some tiny piece of that world.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Sorry for your medical problems but i am happy that the doctors have diagnosed the cause. Hope medication and your own will helps alleviate your troubles

Thanks very much Christine. You’re so awesome! It was the fright of my life. The hospital rang last night and said I needed an urgent transfusion - 3 bottles. Which saved my life. Thanks so, so much for your encouragement and well wishes.