Tampons too "woke" for conservatives.

[Shaul]

You're not paying attention. We've already talked about how about a quarter of teen girls can't afford/don't have access to feminine care products. Not sure if you realize or not, but they ain't all that cheap.

The costs could easily be covered with a tiny, tiny fraction of the money the state already has. Also, as pointed out before. No need for citizens to "donate funds voluntarily" which apparently hasn't happened. Apparently the state can easily afford it.

Again, "the need". The need is not the question. The question is this, who should fulfill the need. Nor is the size relevant. Taking money without justification, by theat of force if necessary, is morally wrong. Which is what you are proposing. When there are less odious alternatives available that you won't even consider.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes, there it is. There's the attitude. You want to virtue signal and spend other people's money to your heart's content to do it. And it never ends. And it isn't limited to just a few tampons. Others with the same attitude want this, and another wants that. Soon enough the chickens come home to roost and a nation is broken. But that doesn't matter as long as you feel good about "doing what's right".

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money."-Margaret Thatcher

Well, the problem is that in effect the money you pay in taxes are not your money. If it really was your money, you wouldn't be paying them in taxes.

 

[Shaul]

So, using public funds for a small convenience that a huge proportion of people find strictly necessary means... the end of civilisation as we know it.

Whatever you say, snowflake.

Look at you who wants it both ways. The costs are "so small" they should be dismissed when talking about taking it from other people, but the costs are so huge and grave that the poor, poor families will be reduce to penury if they are (gasp!) "forced" to bear it themselves.

 

[Shaul]

Well, the problem is that in effect the money you pay in taxes are not your money. If it really was your money, you wouldn't be paying them in taxes.

i can't tell if you are saying this tongue in cheek or not. Which is truly frightening.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Again, "the need". The need is not the question. The question is this, who should fulfill the need. Nor is the size relevant. Taking money without justification, by theat of force if necessary, is morally wrong. Which is what you are proposing. When there are less odious alternatives available that you won't even consider.

Yes, as a tautology. But that is not the same as all taxation is that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Um, if that is the definition of "duty of care" that you are using then, no, schools don't need to follow your ill-defined idea.
You are really arguing that education scores differ because of whether tampons are available? If that is your reasoning, and you are an example of a product of your vaunted Australian education system, then maybe we better re-check those supposed education results.

I had chatgpt produce the following. just for you:

explain why US education standings internationally are misleading

The United States education standings internationally can be misleading for several reasons. Here are some of them:

1. Different assessment methods: Education rankings are often based on standardized tests such as the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which assesses student performance in reading, mathematics, and science. However, these tests may not accurately reflect the quality of education in different countries, as they are often designed to measure specific skills and may not reflect the broader curriculum. Furthermore, different countries may use different assessment methods, making it difficult to compare educational outcomes accurately.
2. Socioeconomic factors: Education rankings do not take into account socioeconomic factors that can impact student performance, such as poverty and income inequality. Students from disadvantaged backgrounds may have lower test scores than their peers from more affluent families, which can skew the overall rankings of a country's education system.
3. Cultural differences: Education systems can be influenced by cultural factors such as attitudes towards education and academic achievement. In some cultures, academic achievement is highly valued and prioritized, leading to higher test scores and rankings. In other cultures, other factors such as practical skills or creativity may be prioritized over academic performance, leading to lower test scores.
4. Variations within countries: Education systems can vary significantly within a country. For example, a country may have high-performing schools in certain areas but low-performing schools in others. Rankings that are based on national averages may not accurately reflect the quality of education in specific regions or schools.

Overall, while education rankings can provide a broad overview of a country's education system, they should be interpreted with caution as they can be influenced by a range of factors that may not accurately reflect the quality of education in a given country.

Many of us have already gone over this can interfere with students' ability to focus and learn and feel comfortable in the school environment. I've asked you several times why people such as yourself seem to want to make schools as unpleasant as possible for kids.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

i can't tell if you are saying this tongue in cheek or not. Which is truly frightening.

No, your money, my money and all that only works in a certain context that requires force as such.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well, just for the record, and to the best of my knowledge, the total number of US students last year that died because their school didn't provide them with tampons was....
zero.

I'll even go out on a limb here and suggest the zero have died due this that over the last decade.

No one has suggested that. Try addressing the actual points made instead of making up nonsense. There are very real educational concerns here, that can, and do have an affect on students' ability to focus and learn in an educational setting.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well, golly, maybe we can figure out some way to avoid that. How about this. The parents of every student that has a cell phone provide their "lil darlings" with the tampons they might need. Surely if the parents can afford to give them a cell phone they could provide them with tampons. Since about 99% of students that might need a tampon have a cell phone, that should cut way down on the problem.

The easiest solution is to use the money that the state already has available. You know, instead of just pulling statistics out of your backside.

 

[SkepticThinker]

When you are young, your period is very often irregular and unpredictable, making it difficult to plan for. Girls are also starting to menstruate at younger ages--10% of girls have menarche before age 10, and more than half before age 12. When you need the supplies, you need the supplies, and it is a difficult thing for youngsters to plan ahead and be prepared for. Having the supplies readily available will help keep school attendance steady.

Look at it from a business perspective: at work, we keep a supply of menstrual products in the women's bathroom so people don't have to leave work due to a lack of having them available, just as we keep a supply of headache medicines and various first aid supplies for the same reason. We don't need a drop in productivity when the solution is so simple and cost-effective as compared to what the loss of productivity might cost.

This ^^ This ^^ This ^^

 

[Shaul]

The easiest solution is to use the money that the state already has available. You know, instead of just pulling statistics out of your backside.

Taxes are a taking of the people's livelihood and should only be done for the most essential common needs and even then only if a less obtrusive alternative isn't available. Supply tampons doesn't cut it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, there it is. There's the attitude. You want to virtue signal and spend other people's money to your heart's content to do it. And it never ends. And it isn't limited to just a few tampons. Others with the same attitude want this, and another wants that. Soon enough the chickens come home to roost and a nation is broken. But that doesn't matter as long as you feel good about "doing what's right".

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money."-Margaret Thatcher

Yes, that's what taxes are. "Other" peoples' money. And our own. All pooled together to fund things like schools, roads, fire departments, that we all use. And since girls\women are 50% of the population, perhaps they should also get a say in where their, and your, money goes.
Hell, I don't even have kids, so why am I funding public education!? Oh right, because it benefits the entire society that I live in, including myself.

 

[Shaul]

No one has suggested that. Try addressing the actual points made instead of making up nonsense. There are very real educational concerns here, that can, and do have an affect on students' ability to focus and learn in an educational setting.

Which doesn't mean the schools have to fund it, just that somebody does. I say the parents as the first choice, and schools as the last resort. The school budgets are struggling. They don't need this too.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Again, "the need". The need is not the question. The question is this, who should fulfill the need. Nor is the size relevant. Taking money without justification, by theat of force if necessary, is morally wrong. Which is what you are proposing. When there are less odious alternatives available that you won't even consider.

This was all addressed in the post you were just responding to. Except you didn't actually address what I said.

The state has the ability to address the need. For a tiny, tiny cost.

I don't know why you're going on about "threat of force" or whatever.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Taxes are a taking of the people's livelihood and should only be done for the most essential common needs and even then only if a less obtrusive alternative isn't available. Supply tampons doesn't cut it.

Yeah, you decide that, because you are the only one with a vote, because that is how the US Constitution works.

 

[Left Coast]

***STAFF POST***

Alright everyone. Yes I mean you.

Let's keep the forum mission and rules in mind here. If you're feeling agitated, annoyed, angry...take a break for a minute. Get up, walk around, take some deep breaths. Go feel the sun on your face. Pet an animal. Meditate, pray, whatever you need to do to get in a better headspace. Then come back and re-engage when you are calm.

Alright?

Have a good day everyone!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Look at you who wants it both ways. The costs are "so small" they should be dismissed when talking about taking it from other people, but the costs are so huge and grave that the poor, poor families will be reduce to penury if they are (gasp!) "forced" to bear it themselves.

Uh no. The funds have already been "taken from other people." Do you think that parents of the students attending these schools don't also pay taxes?

I've provided you with facts about lack of access to feminine hygiene products, and how around one quarter of girls miss school days due to this lack of access. Instead of thinking through the sorts of negative effects this has on their education, you instead choose to argue silly strawman about how nobody has died from not having access to tampons and give me some sarcastic response that essentially mocks those living in poverty who have issues with this stuff.

Just some general information about women living in poverty in the US:

"It’s happened to so many people who menstruate: you’re going about your life until you realize that you just got your period. The ungainly scramble to find a restroom and the fervent prayer that you packed a menstrual product leaves you feeling anxious, vulnerable, and exposed. This is compounded by the fact that our society stigmatizes menstruation — or really, anything to do with a uterus — and a taboo hangs over these discussions.

This scenario is far worse if you are one of the nearly 22 million women living in poverty in the US who cannot afford menstrual hygiene products, a problem known as period poverty. One study in Obstetrics & Gynecology demonstrated that 64% of women reported ever having difficulty affording menstrual products, such as pads, tampons, or reusable products like menstrual cups. And 21% reported that they were unable to afford these products every month. People who are homeless or incarcerated are at particularly high risk of not having access to adequate menstrual hygiene products."

Period equity: What it is and why it matters - Harvard Health

Menstruation is a basic fact of human existence, yet millions of people in the US struggle to afford –– or can't afford –– products like tampons and pads, a problem k...

www.health.harvard.edu

As to teen girls:

• "Many female students would rather miss class than go to school while menstruating if they lack access to feminine hygiene products, according to the State of the Period study sponsored by Thinx and Period. Poverty plays a large role in access to obtaining these products, but there is also cultural stigma around menstruation that causes embarrassment and feelings of shame for some girls.
• The study conducted by Harris Insights & Analytics of 1,000 teens ages 13 to 19 found 20% — one in five — of teenage girls surveyed can’t afford to purchase menstrual hygiene products. It also states that two-thirds of respondents feel stress because they don’t have access to tampons and pads, 61% have worn tampons more than four hours, 25% missed class because they didn’t have access to tampons or pads, and 83% think lack of access “is not talked about enough.”
• The study centers on the need for more education on this topic, as 76% of students feel they know more about the biology of frogs than they do about the biology of the female body, and it also found many students feel ashamed when they are menstruating."

Report finds 'period poverty' a top reason girls miss school

Schools are addressing issues including a lack of access to hygiene products and menstruation stigma by stocking items in health rooms and bathrooms.

www.k12dive.com

And ...

"Menstrual products are expensive in the U.S. In a national survey of 1,000 menstruating teens, 1 in 5 struggled to afford period products and 4 in 5 either missed or knew someone who missed class time because they did not have access to period products. Unfortunately, government benefits, such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), do not cover the cost of these necessary supplies. While the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act made period products medical expenses eligible for purchase with flexible spending accounts or health savings accounts, uninsured individuals cannot access this benefit.

Many students rely on menstrual products purchased and supplied by school districts and stored within a school clinic or school nurse’s office. There are at least 14 states and local jurisdictions with proposed legislation to ensure that menstrual products are readily available in school bathrooms. However, many of these bills don’t allocate corresponding funding, leaving it up to school districts to purchase these products. Despite local efforts, menstrual products provided by schools are now unavailable to many youth with school closures due to the pandemic."

Period Poverty: The Public Health Crisis We Don't Talk About | PolicyLab

Period poverty is defined as inadequate access to menstrual hygiene tools and education, including but not limited to sanitary products, washing facilities and waste management.

policylab.chop.edu

Stupid poor people, amirite?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Taxes are a taking of the people's livelihood and should only be done for the most essential common needs and even then only if a less obtrusive alternative isn't available. Supply tampons doesn't cut it.

Feminine hygiene products are a "most common essential need" for half the population.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Look at you who wants it both ways. The costs are "so small" they should be dismissed when talking about taking it from other people, but the costs are so huge and grave that the poor, poor families will be reduce to penury if they are (gasp!) "forced" to bear it themselves.

That sure is a lot of words you're putting in my mouth.

If you can't stand up for your own arguments to the extent that you have to make up ones other people never made, then obviously your arguments are pretty poor.

Meanwhile, you literally claimed that providing tampons to teenagers and pre-teens would bring about the end of western civilisation.

Learn some perspective.

 

[JustGeorge]

Apparently not clear enough since you didn't comprehend it. But that could be attributed to a lack of comprehension ability on your part.

@Shaul , if you tell a person "I don't necessarily believe you, I don't necessarily like you, I don't necessarily think we can do that, etc" they are going to assume that you don't believe them, don't like them, can't do such and such, etc. Unless followed by a witty statement that says the contrary, I can't think of any situation in which a person isn't going to take it that way.

So, to say something like "I don't necessarily believe you" and expect a person or those around them to not pick up that you're insinuating dishonesty is simply twisting words to twist words, and it makes it hard to have an honest debate that way. Instead, it becomes an argument. What's the point of that? What gets accomplished with an argument? A debate, at least, is meant to bring up points that others may not have thought of, consider new points.

If I wanted to argue, there's a 200 dollar dress I've got my eye on... I'd order that, wait for my husband to object, and at least I'd have something to show for all the bickering...