Tara Reade who accuses Biden of sexual assault now fears for her life.

[SkepticThinker]

I don't know if Joe has "less" rape under his belt, what with his creepy behavior around young children and what his daughter said in her journal about those bizarre showers she would have with Joe. Also, the fact that he has two kids who ended up drug addicted, alcoholic sex addicts who are broken wrecks of human beings. Those kind of issues usually mean something bad happened in childhood.

Something bad did happen in their childhood - they lost their mother and sister in a horrible car crash.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Something bad did happen in their childhood - they lost their mother and sister in a horrible car crash.

That may not have been the only thing, at least in Ashley's case.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That may not have been the only thing, at least in Ashley's case.

Yes, may. But in general we don't perfect politicians. At best we get good enough or worse. I am realist after all, when it comes to that. And off course I have my biases in favor of and against.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, may. But in general we don't perfect politicians. At best we get good enough or worse. I am realist after all, when it comes to that. And off course I have my biases in favor of and against.

I'd prefer if we didn't have rapists and pedos in office, but that's just me. But then I guess we'd have to get all new people because it seems like they're all either doing it or know about it but do nothing to stop it. R or D doesn't matter. It's beyond parties, ideology, etc. These people are raping kids, raping adults, into child porn, sometimes into snuff, etc. They protect their own and engage in cover ups and silencing through threats or worse. There's no hope, really.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'd prefer if we didn't have rapists and pedos in office, but that's just me. But then I guess we'd have to get all new people because it seems like they're all either doing it or know about it but do nothing to stop it. R or D doesn't matter. It's beyond parties, ideology, etc. These people are raping kids, raping adults, into child porn, sometimes into snuff, etc. There's no hope, really.

I once read a historian's account of that. It apparently always have been so, we just treat it differently today.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I once read a historian's account of that. It apparently always have been so, we just treat it differently today.

Yeah, it's apparently been going on for centuries but I don't think we treat it too much differently these days. We still have our heads in the sand. Most people have no idea what's really going on. It's not a pleasant subject to look into, anyway. Epstein was just the tip of the iceberg. It's far bigger than that, and darker.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yeah, it's apparently been going on for centuries but I don't think we treat it too much differently these days. We still have our heads in the sand. Most people have no idea what's really going on. It's not a pleasant subject to look into, anyway. Epstein was just the tip of the iceberg. It's far bigger than that, and darker.

Yes, but it is not the only problem humankind faces. So with limited resources in effect, you and I prioritize differently.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, but it is not the only problem humankind faces. So with limited resources in effect, you and I prioritize differently.

That's how it keeps going and they prefer it that way. Our popular media is designed to keep us distracted, misinformed, dumbed down and driven by blind animalistic impulses (like consumerism). Our politics, at least in the US, is much the same. Anything to distract us from what's important and keep us fighting with each other over petty bs.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's how it keeps going and they prefer it that way. Our popular media is designed to keep us distracted, misinformed, dumbed down and driven by blind animalistic impulses. Our politics, at least in the US, is much the same. Anything to distract us from what's important and keep us fighting with each other over petty bs.

Yeah, you are in your culture and I am in mine. So you do as you have to. It is your life.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That may not have been the only thing, at least in Ashley's case.

I'm not going to comment on far-right wing internet rumours that don't seem to have any basis in reality.

No Evidence Ashley Biden Said She Feared Her Father 'Coming in the Shower' with Her

The alleged quote has been circulating online for months without a shred of evidence to support it.

www.snopes.com

 

[nPeace]

Why can't someone withdraw consent during the act? Of course they can.
I gave a scenario earlier in the thread that nobody responded to ...

Let's say you're going at it with your partner, and it starts hurting for some reason and tell the partner you don't want to have sex anymore and let's please stop. I would say in such a situation your partner should stop, since you have withdrawn consent. Do you agree?

That's not the point. The point is, you gave consent.
The point is not whether you can change your mind... Or, decide you don't like the experience.... Or, you want some time to get conditions just right to alleviate discomfort.
This isn't about how experienced a person is... If you are both inexperienced, maybe you needed to both stop, and read some books.
Anyway, agreeing to something is giving consent. You can't argue that you didn't give consent to finish. Who made those rules?

 

[SkepticThinker]

That's not the point. The point is, you gave consent.
The point is not whether you can change your mind... Or, decide you don't like the experience.... Or, you want some time to get conditions just right to alleviate discomfort.

You said: "How can a woman give consent, and withdraw that consent during or after the act?"
The point very much is "can you change your mind?'

My response was to give an example in which you may want to change your mind and withdraw consent during the act.

So ... you can't change your mind? Consent cannot be withdrawn at any time once the act has begun? Even if you're not enjoying it. Or it hurts. Or you have a seizure or something? Come on.
I don't think so. It's my body, get off me when I say so.

This isn't about how experienced a person is... If you are both inexperienced, maybe you needed to both stop, and read some books.
Anyway, agreeing to something is giving consent. You can't argue that you didn't give consent to finish. Who made those rules?

I'm not talking about "how experienced a person is." I was talking about a specific example in which consent may be withdrawn and you couldn't even answer the question that was asked.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm not going to comment on far-right wing internet rumours that don't seem to have any basis in reality.

No Evidence Ashley Biden Said She Feared Her Father 'Coming in the Shower' with Her

The alleged quote has been circulating online for months without a shred of evidence to support it.

www.snopes.com

Yes, that's a fake quote someone made up on social media. That's not what her dairy said. She was discussing what might have caused her sex addiction and mentions having sex at a young age and "probably not appropriate" showers with her father. She believes she was molested, but doesn't say by who, IIRC.

EXCLUSIVE SOURCE: Biden Daughter's Diary Details 'Not Appropriate' Showers With Joe As Child

"Was I molested. I think so."

nationalfile.com

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, that's a fake quote someone made up on social media. That's not what her dairy said. She was discussing what might have caused her sex addiction and mentions having sex at a young age and "probably not appropriate" showers with her father.

EXCLUSIVE SOURCE: Biden Daughter's Diary Details 'Not Appropriate' Showers With Joe As Child

"Was I molested. I think so."

nationalfile.com

That's the bogus claim my article is talking about.

The diary's authenticity has apparently never even been confirmed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's the bogus claim my article is talking about.

The diary's authenticity has apparently never even been confirmed.

That quote is fake, but the overall claim about the showers isn't. The diary is "most likely" real (in other words, it is). We don't need a rubber stamp of authenticity from the government, which probably won't happen for political reasons. It's potentially an explosive thing for the Biden admin, or at the very least embarrassing. I doubt they want people knowing much about it, especially with an election coming up. The people who sold it to Project Veritas have plead guilty to a felony for trafficking it. Then it was taken by someone at Project Veritas, who leaked it to the National File. That's how it ended up online. There's no evidence it's fake.

A Project Veritas Employee Leaked Ashley Biden’s Diary

The publisher of the conservative outlet that ran Ashley Biden’s diary says their source was Project Veritas.

theintercept.com

 

[nPeace]

You said: "How can a woman give consent, and withdraw that consent during or after the act?"
The point very much is "can you change your mind?'

Then, I think you need to understand the difference between give consent to, and quit.
For example, You agree to a boxing match with Michelle Tyson. You spring in the ring dancing like a butterfly. You start being stung like a bee, as Michelle lands one punch after another. You can't take it, It's uncomfortable. You want Michelle to quit.
Did you consent or agree to fight Michelle. Yes you did.
Whether Michelle stops punching you after the referee raises his hand, is besides the point.

My response was to give an example in which you may want to change your mind and withdraw consent during the act.

You cannot withdraw consent. What? You gave consent.
You can refuse to continue - i.e. quit, but that is another matter.

So ... you can't change your mind?

I never said that. That's not the point.

Consent cannot be withdrawn at any time once the act has begun?

You mean, can you claim that you did not agree to sex, after you agreed to sex? What do you think?

Even if you're not enjoying it. Or it hurts. Or you have a seizure or something? Come on.
I don't think so. It's my body, get off me when I say so.

If you have a seizure, your boyfriend might think you are enjoying it so much, he might get more excited. I don't think he'll stop then. Lol.

I'm not talking about "how experienced a person is." I was talking about a specific example in which consent may be withdrawn and you couldn't even answer the question that was asked.

The experienced part came in response to your reason for complaining about why you want to stop.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's not the point. The point is, you gave consent.
The point is not whether you can change your mind... Or, decide you don't like the experience.... Or, you want some time to get conditions just right to alleviate discomfort.
This isn't about how experienced a person is... If you are both inexperienced, maybe you needed to both stop, and read some books.
Anyway, agreeing to something is giving consent. You can't argue that you didn't give consent to finish. Who made those rules?

You said: "How can a woman give consent, and withdraw that consent during or after the act?"
The point very much is "can you change your mind?'

My response was to give an example in which you may want to change your mind and withdraw consent during the act.

So ... you can't change your mind? Consent cannot be withdrawn at any time once the act has begun? Even if you're not enjoying it. Or it hurts. Or you have a seizure or something? Come on.
I don't think so. It's my body, get off me when I say so.

I'm not talking about "how experienced a person is." I was talking about a specific example in which consent may be withdrawn and you couldn't even answer the question that was asked.

It appears that the only real difference here is consent being revoked
retroactively, ie "after the act". (Revocation "during" is easily addressed
by stopping, although males do still face the risk of a rape accusation.)
Certainly, retroactive revocation shouldn't be rape.
But there are complications, eg, regret can inspire accusation, memory
is corrupted over time. There's a big problem with many rape cases
relying largely upon personal testimony about what they remember.
Juries can rely upon the word of one person. Consent rarely has physical
corroborating evidence (eg, witnesses, documentation). Rape is a very
politically charged matter, creating prejudice, & clouding judgment.
And finally, the "proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" standard
isn't reliably applied by juries.

One prosecutor's experiences & views...

I used to prosecute sexual assault cases. Here's what I learned and how it could help us.

My default position is to believe women, but not all allegations are real. Here's how to avoid scorched-earth battles like the Kavanaugh confirmation.

www.usatoday.com

Note:
I served on a jury once. You do not want people that I saw deciding
your fate. Justice has a large random element. And it's filled with
corrupt & incompetent prosecutors, lawyers, & judges. So I favor
Blackstone's ratio.

Blackstone's ratio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SkepticThinker]

That quote is fake, but the overall claim about the showers isn't. The diary is "most likely" real (in other words, it is). We don't need a rubber stamp of authenticity from the government, which probably won't happen for political reasons. It's potentially an explosive thing for the Biden admin, or at the very least embarrassing. I doubt they want people knowing much about it, especially with an election coming up. The people who sold it to Project Veritas have plead guilty to a felony for trafficking it. Then it was taken by someone at Project Veritas, who leaked it to the National File. That's how it ended up online. There's no evidence it's fake.

A Project Veritas Employee Leaked Ashley Biden’s Diary

The publisher of the conservative outlet that ran Ashley Biden’s diary says their source was Project Veritas.

theintercept.com

The quote is about the showers. So if the quote about the showers is fake how is the claim about the showers not fake?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Then, I think you need to understand the difference between give consent to, and quit.
For example, You agree to a boxing match with Michelle Tyson. You spring in the ring dancing like a butterfly. You start being stung like a bee, as Michelle lands one punch after another. You can't take it, It's uncomfortable. You want Michelle to quit.
Did you consent or agree to fight Michelle. Yes you did.
Whether Michelle stops punching you after the referee raises his hand, is besides the point.

I already gave an example. Perhaps we could stick with that.

You cannot withdraw consent. What? You gave consent.
You can refuse to continue - i.e. quit, but that is another matter.


I never said that. That's not the point.


You mean, can you claim that you did not agree to sex, after you agreed to sex? What do you think?


If you have a seizure, your boyfriend might think you are enjoying it so much, he might get more excited. I don't think he'll stop then. Lol.


The experienced part came in response to your reason for complaining about why you want to stop.

All of these words but no response to the questions asked that would address the point. Just a tap dance.
Oh well, I tried.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It appears that the only real difference here is consent being revoked
retroactively, ie "after the act". (Revocation "during" is easily addressed
by stopping, although males do still face the risk of a rape accusation.)
Certainly, retroactive revocation shouldn't be rape.
But there are complications, eg, regret can inspire accusation, memory
is corrupted over time. There's a big problem with many rape cases
relying largely upon personal testimony about what they remember.
Juries can rely upon the word of one person. Consent rarely has physical
corroborating evidence (eg, witnesses, documentation). Rape is a very
politically charged matter, creating prejudice, & clouding judgment.
And finally, the "proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" standard
isn't reliably applied by juries.

One prosecutor's experiences & views...

I used to prosecute sexual assault cases. Here's what I learned and how it could help us.

My default position is to believe women, but not all allegations are real. Here's how to avoid scorched-earth battles like the Kavanaugh confirmation.

www.usatoday.com

Note:
I served on a jury once. You do not want people that I saw deciding
your fate. Justice has a large random element. And it's filled with
corrupt & incompetent prosecutors, lawyers, & judges. So I favor
Blackstone's ratio.

I understand and agree with all of this.

I wanted to explore the claim that consent to sex cannot be withdrawn once given with an example but alas, it doesn't look like I can get a straight answer on that one.