Teacher accidentally fires gun in classroom, students injured

[David1967]

This seems to be the theme we all seem to find agreement on. Based on your experience, if a teacher who had no previous training and wanted to participate, how long would it take? Assuming they can demonstrate basic competencies at a reasonable rate.

Edit: @David1967 feel free to chime in as well.

I know this question is for @esmith but if I may; If teachers want to participate in such a program, my suggestion would be for the Police training academy (here it is called CLEET) to have a specialized course strictly gauged for training teachers who want to carry in the classroom. I believe that this is the likely thing to happen.

 

[Skwim]

Yes, as long as they are properly trained

Just an aside question.
How safe would you feel as a teacher confronting someone with your weapon drawn when you know that at any moment there will be police force personnel armed with automatic weapons storming your school, no doubt ready to take down the first person they see with a gun? As we've seen from countless news reports policemen don't always display the best judgment in confrontational situations.

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[esmith]

This seems to be the theme we all seem to find agreement on. Based on your experience, if a teacher who had no previous training and wanted to participate, how long would it take? Assuming they can demonstrate basic competencies at a reasonable rate.

Edit: @David1967 feel free to chime in as well.

Depends on their experience and what training they have gone through
If you are talking about a neophyte (never handled a firearm) I would say stating with about a day of classroom instruction in the basics, followed by a day of classroom instruction in safety, then followed by at least 200 rounds at a range in 1-2 days (depending on class size...shouldn't be more than 25 IMO), then a year or more of range time with a qualified instruction consisting of at least 2000 rounds. Then a competency test by oral, written, and live fire.

A person experienced with a firearm, IMO, a refresher in firearm safety, and a competency test by oral, written and live fire.

 

[David1967]

As we've seen from countless news reports policemen don't always display the best judgment in confrontational situations

If you took "countless" out of the sentence, referring to bad judgment , I may agree with you. There are however a much higher count of the times they use 'good' judgment.

 

[Quetzal]

If you took "countless" out of the sentence, referring to bad judgment , I may agree with you. There are however a much higher count of the times they use 'good' judgment.

We only hear about the screw ups and outliers, we can blame the media for that!

 

[esmith]

I know this question is for @esmith but if I may; If teachers want to participate in such a program, my suggestion would be for the Police training academy (here it is called CLEET) to have a specialized course strictly gauged for training teachers who want to carry in the classroom. I believe that this is the likely thing to happen.

I would not put a civilian through a police training academy (here POST), this goes far beyond what a school staff member needs. See my Post #23.

 

[Quetzal]

I would not put a civilian through a police training academy (here POST), this goes far beyond what a school staff member needs. See my Post #23.

Maybe I misread it, but I don't think he is advocating for the academy in full. I read it as the academy would develop a course and curriculum. I could be wrong.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

...the weapon should not have been out of holster.

I'm sure he was just trying to quiet the class.

 

[David1967]

I would not put a civilian through a police training academy (here POST), this goes far beyond what a school staff member needs. See my Post #23.

Let me clarify. The CLEET academy has training for Police, security guards, Private investigators ,etc. I'm not suggesting the same course a law enforcement officer has to go through for teachers. What I am suggesting is a course taught through CLEET custom made for teachers and specific situations that would possibly relate to them.

 

[David1967]

I'm sure he was just trying to quiet the class.

Well, that didn't go so well did it? But seriously, I would like to know what that guy was thinking.

 

[Quetzal]

*snip* What I am suggesting is a course taught through CLEET custom made for teachers and specific situations that would possibly relate to them.

That would have to be mandatory, don't you think? The scenarios faced in a classroom would be pretty different than some more traditional encounters. But, again, I could be wrong.

 

[Skwim]

If you took "countless" out of the sentence, referring to bad judgment , I may agree with you. There are however a much higher count of the times they use 'good' judgment.

Countless doesn't imply "more."

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[David1967]

That would have to be mandatory, don't you think?

Yes. No exceptions.

 

[godnotgod]

It's like working in a restaurant: you shouldn't be obligated as part of your duties to clean the restrooms as well.

Why should teachers have to go through training and carry guns in addition to teaching? This is an extra responsibility, and unless they are compensated, then no. Better to hire armed security guards and secure the perimeter of the school grounds. Or better yet, get rid of schools above a certain grade level, and refine education via computer classes.

Besides all that, the problem is much deeper in our society than the use of guns, and unless we address those issues, violence will continue and worsen. Our problems in toto are such that, as a country, we may be headed for a fall....or totalitarian control, but in either case, the liberals will blame the conservatives and vice-versa. 'Freedom' is just an illusion.

 

[esmith]

Just an aside question.
How safe would you feel as a teacher confronting someone with your weapon drawn when you know that at any moment there will be police force personnel armed with automatic weapons storming your school, no doubt ready to take down the first person they see with a gun? As we've seen from countless news reports policemen don't always display the best judgment in confrontational situations.

.

That would have to be covered in the procedural aspects. Yes there is the possibility of a blue on blue incident, but that has to be expressly covered if school staff takes on the responsibility of carrying a weapon in school I would say that local training of LEO has to be increased. But as we have seen those in charge of the police are not exactly experienced enough to confront situations in all localities. It appears that training was not one of their major expenditures in some incidents.

 

[esmith]

Let me clarify. The CLEET academy has training for Police, security guards, Private investigators ,etc. I'm not suggesting the same course a law enforcement officer has to go through for teachers. What I am suggesting is a course taught through CLEET custom made for teachers and specific situations that would possibly relate to them.

That is a viable course of instruction IMO from what I just read about it.

 

[Skwim]

That would have to be covered in the procedural aspects. Yes there is the possibility of a blue on blue incident, but that has to be expressly covered if school staff takes on the responsibility of carrying a weapon in school I would say that local training of LEO has to be increased. But as we have seen those in charge of the police are not exactly experienced enough to confront situations in all localities. It appears that training was not one of their major expenditures in some incidents.

So, how safe would you feel?

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[Quetzal]

Why should teachers have to go through training and carry guns in addition to teaching? This is an extra responsibility, and unless they are compensated, then no.

This is important, too. I am operating under a variety of assumptions: first that it passes that teachers can arm themselves on school property. I do not necessarily agree with this, but that is the assumption at the moment. The second is that after this legislation passes, that teachers arming themselves would be elective and entirely up the individual teacher.

 

[esmith]

So, how safe would you feel?
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Well let me put it this way. I wouldn't be running through the halls waving a firearm, that's a good way to get shot.
So, depending on the situation I would feel safe as long as I knew that the police were trained beyond the basics and that the staff were also.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Well, that didn't go so well did it? But seriously, I would like to know what that guy was thinking.

I had a teacher who used to wing erarers. I'm sure if he were armed I probably could have sustained at least a flesh wound.