Teachers opinions in public schools

[Skwim]

I'd be a little cautious about judging the teacher on a third hand report of the statement they made without any detailed context. It's possible they were trying to play a Devil's advocate position but were misunderstood for example.

Very careful lines to walk here. What if the teacher said, "Some people believe that Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia." Then it's a whole new ball game. I'm not saying there is innocence or guilt. There will have to be a proper investigation, and all you can hope for is that there is a fair one.

I doubt that anyone here would swear the remark was quoted accurately or that there wasn't a mitigating circumstance in which it was said; however, on forums such as this where there's no chance of determining such things, for the sake of discussion we're obliged to either accept them at face value and make our comments or natter on about all kinds of irrelevancies. I prefer the former.

 

[CatholicCrusader]

Since I went way off the track of my original post, I would like to once again ask the OP my initial question:

May I ask a question? This is an honest question:

If the article was about the Pope and teacher had said something negative about the Catholic Church, would you have called and complained?

I ask because there is a definite trend in this nation that no one can deny which makes Catholicism - and Christianty in general I suppose - a big fat target for attacks & negative speech, and yet anything negative said about Muslims autonatically brings out the PC Police. So I am curious to know if you would have reacted the same.

BTW: The teacher WAS out of line.

 

[Vinayaka]

I doubt that anyone here would swear the remark was quoted accurately or that there wasn't a mitigating circumstance in which it was said; however, on forums such as this where there's no chance of determining such things, for the sake of discussion we're obliged to either accept them at face value and make our comments or natter on about all kinds of irrelevancies. I prefer the former.

I agree. I just have a bias as a former teacher. It brings up a subconscious reaction in me, naturally. I never had to deal with any really serious false accusations, just little ones.

Going by what you said, what that teacher did is crazy wrong. Public schools should be promoting tolerance. So should private schools. Unfortunately, in my experience, that hasn't always been the case.

 

[Revoltingest]

I doubt that anyone here would swear the remark was quoted accurately or that there wasn't a mitigating circumstance in which it was said; however, on forums such as this where there's no chance of determining such things, for the sake of discussion we're obliged to either accept them at face value and make our comments or natter on about all kinds of irrelevancies. I prefer the former.

Still, it's an important thing to point out just to keep things in perspective, ie, that the event as portrayed is somewhat hypothetical.
That being said, let's get on with the rants!

 

[waitasec]

My daughter came to me last week about a concern she had. It had to do with a comment made by a teacher.

Apparently in her English class the students are asked to bring in newspaper articles to discuss, and the class is encouraged to give their opinions and discuss the article in class. I think this is a wonderful exercise in learning how to read and interpret the news, understanding different perspectives, expressing your own opinions, and reasoning through your own thoughts... No complaints about the exercise!!

However, one of the discussions led to religion. It was entirely appropriate based on the article and the direction that the discussion went in. Again, I have no problem with this in general...

Then the teacher said that: "Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia".

Apparently that resulted in an immediate end of discussion, the students were shocked and didn't know how to respond, many of them were bothered by the statement and discussed it among themselves after class.

I called the school to complain, and I wonder if I should have taken that step. What do you all think? Teachers have opinions too, should they be allowed to express them in class? Should that statement have been preceeded by a disclaimer, such as "my opinion is..."? Or should the teacher have kept his opinions to himself and just let the students discuss the topic?

that teacher should be reprimanded for that and upon the teachers return he/she is to be subjected to random close circuit surveillance...

 

[Skwim]

Still, it's an important thing to point out just to keep things in perspective, ie, that the event as portrayed is somewhat hypothetical.

Not at all.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Then the teacher said that: "Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia".

That's not an "opinion," that's an open attack on a religion and you were right to complain. Heck, you could probably have a nice law suit.

It's like saying that African Americans were naturally prone to being good slaves.

 

[CatholicCrusader]

.....Heck, you could probably have a nice law suit......

Based on what. No damages were incurred. That's all we need more of: Lawsuits. Our kneejerk reaction should not always be the dang courts.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not at all.

Yes..all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You shouldn't have complain. Rather, you should have raised hell over such an outrageous comment that has no place in a public school.

I ask because there is a definite trend in this nation that no one can deny which makes Catholicism - and Christianty in general I suppose - a big fat target for attacks & negative speech, and yet anything negative said about Muslims autonatically brings out the PC Police. So I am curious to know if you would have reacted the same.

Well, when the head of the Catholic Church covers it up, and rather than placing blame on human error they blamed the free love of the hippies and improper priest training. Not all Catholics are like that, but it's a much better reason to split from the Church than wanting to divorce your wife.
As for Islam, plenty of people do mock the extremist forms of it. South Park made a big joke out of their demands to not show an image of Muhammad, there was a day for people to draw Muhammad and post it on Facebook, and of course their is the Danish Cartoonist that started it.

 

[SarahRuth]

This situation is not hypothetical, it really happened. Though I do understand that it's possible it wasn't relayed to me *exactly* as it happened. As far as I am aware, it happened as stated in the OP.

I would have reacted the same way no matter which religion was insulted. It is not acceptable to insult Christianity either. My problem with this situation is that the teacher made a statement about a religion that is highly offensive, and he stated it as if it were fact. We teach our children to view teachers as authority figures, and he should be setting a better example than that. I have to wonder what the intentions were in making such a statement, and what did that teach the kids? It certainly didn't prompt more discussion, it made the students uncomfortable and ended the discussion.

This is a high school class, btw. Not young children, but I don't think the behavior is acceptable for a teacher at any grade level.

And I don't believe for a second that Christians or Christianity are a target in this country. There may be isolated examples of someone being treated improperly because of their Christian beliefs, but that happens to individuals of all religions and non-religions. Christians tend to get special treatment in this country, if anything.

 

[CatholicCrusader]

May I ask a question? This is an honest question:

If the article was about the Pope and teacher had said something negative about the Catholic Church, would you have called and complained?

I ask because there is a definite trend in this nation that no one can deny which makes Catholicism - and Christianty in general I suppose - a big fat target for attacks & negative speech, and yet anything negative said about Muslims autonatically brings out the PC Police. So I am curious to know if you would have reacted the same.

BTW: The teacher WAS out of line.

Well, when the head of the Catholic Church covers it up, and rather than placing blame on human error they blamed the free love of the hippies and improper priest training. Not all Catholics are like that, but it's a much better reason to split from the Church than wanting to divorce your wife.
As for Islam, plenty of people do mock the extremist forms of it. South Park made a big joke out of their demands to not show an image of Muhammad, there was a day for people to draw Muhammad and post it on Facebook, and of course their is the Danish Cartoonist that started it.

Wow. You're not bigoted, are you. <rolls eyes>
Your post might be of slight interest if it had anything at all to do with my question!!

Actually, I take that back: It is of no interest at all. Its just a mindless rant.

 

[Skwim]

. . . there is a definite trend in this nation that no one can deny which makes Catholicism - and Christianty in general I suppose - a big fat target for attacks & negative speech, and yet anything negative said about Muslims autonatically brings out the PC Police.

Maybe it's because of where I live, but I haven't seen any evidence of Catholicism being "a big fat target for attacks & negative speech," even in the news. In fact, because of all the recent scandals about priests and their sexual proclivities, and the dearth of general condemnation for Catholicism, I think the religion is being treated quite fairly. The negative comments I have heard have always been about specific acts, and not the religion itself. Moreover, I haven't see any PC police actions taken because of negative comments about Muslims. However, if you have evidence I'd be willing to reconsider.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Based on what. No damages were incurred. That's all we need more of: Lawsuits. Our kneejerk reaction should not always be the dang courts.

Yes. It's a violation of the students' constitutional rights - the endorsement clause - and it is a direct insult to not only Islam but every other religious tradition.

To prevent this type of behavior from occurring again, yes, a lawsuit is needed.

 

[CatholicCrusader]

Yes. It's a violation of the students' constitutional rights - the endorsement clause - and it is a direct insult to not only Islam but every other religious tradition.

To prevent this type of behavior from occurring again, yes, a lawsuit is needed.

Gobbldeygook.

It was wrong, I grant you that, and the teacher should be told not to do it again. But you are way off the deep end with the endorsement clause. That poor clause has been mangled and misapplied enough already.

 

[Rakhel]

While I agree that personal opinions such as these are best left unsaid, the only thing I could possibly say, in defense of the teacher, is that she may have been hoping for some serious rebuttal from some students.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Gobbldeygook.

It was wrong, I grant you that, and the teacher should be told not to do it again. But you are way off the deep end with the endorsement clause. That poor clause has been mangled and misapplied enough already.

So if a teacher told his or her class something just as negative and unfounded about Catholicism, you wouldn't consider legal action?

 

[CatholicCrusader]

So if a teacher told his or her class something just as negative and unfounded about Catholicism, you wouldn't consider legal action?

I think our society is far too litigious. I would count on the school authorities to have the common sense to either fire or discipline the teacher.

Ever heard the old phrase, "Sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me"? Maybe parents should start teaching that again.

If a teacher told his or her class something just as negative and unfounded about Catholicism, what harm is done to me? Nothing. What am I suing for? Fire the teacher or discipline the teacher, but give the courts a rest already.

 

[gnostic]

There are some opinions that are better left unsaid to children in a school setting. That statement sounds incredibly inappropriate, and I think you did the right thing to say something.

Yes, it was terribly inappropriate. Certainly not in front of children in the classroom environment.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think our society is far too litigious. I would count on the school authorities to have the common sense to either fire or discipline the teacher.

Ever heard the old phrase, "Sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me"? Maybe parents should start teaching that again.

If a teacher told his or her class something just as negative and unfounded about Catholicism, what harm is done to me? Nothing. What am I suing for? Fire the teacher or discipline the teacher, but give the courts a rest already.

It's fine if you wouldn't want to take the matter to court, but the fact that you have that option (and that the school and board know that you have it) would play into how successful your attempts to resolve the matter out-of-court would be.

Even if you wouldn't exercise your right, to a large degree, it's your right to seek redress through the courts that stops other organizations from simply disregarding your rights and the rights of your children.