Tell me where in the Bible does Jesus clearly say that he's God

[Dag101]

Isaiah 9:6: For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10+11 - "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior."

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

I hope I helped you out with your question

 

[Animevox]

God's "words" come through people.


If the history is wrong, it's wrong, no matter who touts it.
Your take on the history of the canon is wrong.

Well if you're saying that God's words come thru people, then I can make any claim I want and claim that it was from God, that is your logic right there.

Besides, God obviously wouldn't let a book that represents the "right" religion be flawed.

 

[Animevox]

I didn't say they were authentic through inspiration. I said that they are the texts whose inspiration is determined to be authentic.

(BTW: Aren't the claims made by the Quran the same ones you list here?)

Determined to be authentic and authentic are two different things. It's either authentic or it isn't. As for the Qur'an, it isn't the same. The Qur'an is directly God's words. The angel (Gabriel; The Holy Spirit) who isn't part of God; spoke to God, and delivered the message directly to the Messenger/Prophet at the time, and he having a miraculous memory spoke it, as others wrote it down for him. There's a difference, one is writing God's words directly from the Prophet having memorized it, while the other is just writing from your own mind and claiming it to be from inspiration.

 

[Animevox]

Isaiah 9:6: For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10+11 - "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior."

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

I hope I helped you out with your question

Those verse's are not unambiguous, it's clearly equivocal and open to many interpretations. Why don't you actually give me a verse where Jesus Christ himself says that I am God? Can you? Clearly you can't, because he never does. In fact, if you read the gospels, you would know that there's even evidence in the Acts of the Apostles and elsewhere in the New Testament, that the original disciples of Jesus did not actually take him to be God.

 

[McBell]

Well if you're saying that God's words come thru people, then I can make any claim I want and claim that it was from God, that is your logic right there.

And yet that is what the Koran is.
Actually, the Koran is not even gods words as spoken to Mohammed.
they are Gabrial's words as spoken to Mohammed.
Or at best they are gods words as spoken to Gabriel as spoken to Mohammed.

So, using your logic....


Perhaps you should clean up your own back yard before sticking your nose in your neighbors?

Besides, God obviously wouldn't let a book that represents the "right" religion be flawed.

Apparently he prefers to allow hundreds of hadiths to be written all saying all manner of things even contradicting each other and the Koran.

yeah, way better proof of gods word you got there...

 

[Me Myself]

Well the Christian idea is that several unknown writes got inspired while in Islam we just have one who we know.

You don´t know Muhammed any more than anyone knows Jesus or any other long dead historical figure.

 

[F0uad]

You don´t know Muhammed any more than anyone knows Jesus or any other long dead historical figure.

If your not familiar with Islamic sources and manuscripts please ignore the subject i really dislike people that just make claims without knowing anything about the subject.

And yet that is what the Koran is.
Actually, the Koran is not even gods words as spoken to Mohammed.
they are Gabrial's words as spoken to Mohammed.
Or at best they are gods words as spoken to Gabriel as spoken to Mohammed.

So, using your logic....

I think your not getting the point here the problem here is that Mohammed(saws) is a historical figure we even know how many grey hairs he had on hes beard there are over 700,000 manuscripts about him alone, the people in Arabia were at that time very detailed heck we even have some of hes belongings. Wherein we have no information regarding the people who ever wrote the Gospels so there is no comparison not to forget that the Gospels weren't written by the Apostles of jesus(pbuh).

Apparently he prefers to allow hundreds of hadiths to be written all saying all manner of things even contradicting each other and the Koran.

Thats not true at all are you saying that Authentic Hadiths contradict with the Quran or each other that doesn't make any sense, it looks to me that your just making things up just to have a argument.

yeah, way better proof of gods word you got there...

Clearly you don't know anything about Islam the hadiths are not seen as God's revelation.

 

[Me Myself]

If your not familiar with Islamic sources and manuscripts please ignore the subject i really dislike people that just make claims without knowing anything about the subject.

I have no intention of "pleasing" your dislikes.

I maintain what I said: You have no reason to believe that you know Muhammad anymore anyone can claim to know any other dead historical figure.

You never met the guy. If you had met the guy you would need a lot of spending time together with him to know him on reasonably deep levels.

And you never get to completely know anyone anyways.

 

[McBell]

I think your not getting the point here the problem here is that Mohammed(saws) is a historical figure we even know how many grey hairs he had on hes beard there are over 700,000 manuscripts about him alone, the people in Arabia were at that time very detailed heck we even have some of hes belongings. Wherein we have no information regarding the people who ever wrote the Gospels so there is no comparison not to forget that the Gospels weren't written by the Apostles of jesus(pbuh).

Nice little speech.

Care to try again this time addressing the point?

Thats not true at all are you saying that Authentic Hadiths contradict with the Quran or each other that doesn't make any sense, it looks to me that your just making things up just to have a argument.

Your opinion is duly noted.

Clearly you don't know anything about Islam the hadiths are not seen as God's revelation.

Clearly you have no intention of addressing the points raised.

Please feel free to try again when you decide to actually address the points raised.

 

[F0uad]

Nice little speech.

Care to try again this time addressing the point?

What is your point? My point was that Mohammed(saws) is one of the most historical figures in religions wherein we have no information regarding the Gospel writers at-least not in the same extend . If your point/questions is how can we trust Mohammed(saws) then my answer would be he never lied, he was offered wealth, peace, food, women everything you could wish for to change or deny yet he didn't accept it. If your question is how can we know that the Quran is from God then i also have some answers ready.

Clearly you have no intention of addressing the points raised.

Please feel free to try again when you decide to actually address the points raised.

You said that the Quran is flawed or hadiths or something like that you mixed the two so i don't really see a point here.

 

[F0uad]

I have no intention of "pleasing" your dislikes.

I maintain what I said: You have no reason to believe that you know Muhammad anymore anyone can claim to know any other dead historical figure.

You never met the guy. If you had met the guy you would need a lot of spending time together with him to know him on reasonably deep levels.

And you never get to completely know anyone anyways.

So how would you know that China exist have you ever been there or a country you never visited? No you heard so and saw it true satellite or maps.

 

[McBell]

What is your point? My point was that Mohammed(saws) is one of the most historical figures in religions wherein we have no information regarding the Gospel writers at-least not in the same extend . If your point/questions is how can we trust Mohammed(saws) then my answer would be he never lied, he was offered wealth, peace, food, women everything you could wish for to change or deny yet he didn't accept it. If your question is how can we know that the Quran is from God then i also have some answers ready.

If you had bothered to pay attention you would know that I was addressing the scoff at gods words coming through people.

You said that the Quran is flawed or hadiths or something like that you mixed the two so i don't really see a point here.

You do not even know what I am talking about so you made assumptions and went into attack mode?

Wow.

 

[McBell]

So how would you know that China exist have you ever been there or a country you never visited? No you heard so and saw it true satellite or maps.

Yes, because everyone knows that China is a person...

 

[F0uad]

Yes, because everyone knows that China is a person...

Well clearly you didn't get the point this time.

 

[McBell]

Well clearly you didn't get the point this time.

I was pointing out that your analogy is an epic fail

It is comparing apples to volkswagons.

 

[F0uad]

If you had bothered to pay attention you would know that I was addressing the scoff at gods words coming through people.

Well what is the point i still don't get it.. Are you talking about how honest a person is about getting a revelation or how historical he is or how we know him? Make the point already...

You do not even know what I am talking about so you made assumptions and went into attack mode?

I guess not its surprising that it will take you three posts to finally make the point.

 

[F0uad]

I was pointing out that your analogy is an epic fail

It is comparing apples to volkswagons.

Its Volkswagen.. just saying..

However its not an ''Epic Fail'' but a reasonable one, if one person didn't see or visit China does that mean he cannot have a idea how China is?


Ps: We are so off-topic lets stop here?

 

[McBell]

Well what is the point i still don't get it.. Are you talking about how honest a person is about getting a revelation or how historical he is or how we know him? Make the point already...

The point being that the Koran is in the same boat he scoffs at for the Bible being in.

I guess not its surprising that it will take you three posts to finally make the point.

Except I made my point in post #25.

 

[McBell]

Its Volkswagen.. just saying..

However its not an ''Epic Fail'' but a reasonable one, if one person didn't see or visit China does that mean he cannot have a idea how China is?


Ps: We are so off-topic lets stop here?

no, your China analogy took it off topic.
Me Myself was pointing out that one cannot know a person completely.

You created a strawman with your China talk.

 

[Freedomelf]

Considering the prejudice of early Bible writers against women, it is very plausible that they changed "God the Mother" to "Holy Spirit." Seems to me that the trinity would be much more likely to be Father, Mother and Child. I can't see God as a single parent, and what happened with Mary (if it did) would not qualify him as being anything other than a single parent. Besides, God doesn't have to impregnate a human in order to create a God. God the Mother and God the Father can merely name a human couple to be the bearers of their god-child, just like Christians believe that God the father did with Mary. There are just so many possibilities, that no one will ever know the truth until they pass from mortal realms, imho. Therefore, I don't really think it matters if we have definitive answers for anything. Just keep walking a good, kind-hearted and charitable path, and one day you'll be able to ask God yourself.