Tell the World

[Left Coast]

Some old family acquaintances never went to college because they were convinced it was the end of the world... year after year, the world did not end. Their parents died, they had to get a job.... people go their entire lives denying reality.

So many today believe the end of the world, the 2nd coming is right around the corner - they live their lives in fear, prepping for the war that will never come, living in paranoia - what a waste when they could be out enjoying the sunshine, when they could have enjoyed their life.

I'm curious, were they convinced it was the end of the world because of a religious prophecy?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Some old family acquaintances never went to college because they were convinced it was the end of the world... year after year, the world did not end. Their parents died, they had to get a job.... people go their entire lives denying reality.

So many today believe the end of the world, the 2nd coming is right around the corner - they live their lives in fear, prepping for the war that will never come, living in paranoia - what a waste when they could be out enjoying the sunshine, when they could have enjoyed their life.

That would be because it is the end of an age and not the end of the world.

Regards Tony

 

[Sheldon]

Religions built nations? Oh yeah, duh. Look at America. People seeking religious freedom came to America and ended up building a great nation of loving people. All they had to do is get rid of the people that were in the way and find some cheap exploitable labor.

I think you meant to address that to the post i quoted, as it doesn't address my post?

Sheldon said: ↑
Religions have also destroyed nations, and stopped countless hearts forever. So that sweeping platitude is rather facile don't you think.

 

[CG Didymus]

You did not read my last post, as this was covered in my last post. I have noted this happens a lot now CG.

You mean the one I quoted from?

Liberal and progressive does not have to be a rebellion against God's given Laws and Gods given Covernant, in fact it is the opposite, it is a destructive person bound to this world and intent on their own desires.

I've been around Baha'is. Some were very liberal. Some were very Conservative. I was with the liberal Baha'is on several of their mass teaching projects to Indian reservations. Back home the Conservative ones were in LSA's meetings.

Your backhanded comment, which I offered thoughts about in another post.

I believe that the conservative ones are better than the liberal ones to hold positions of authority. They will be happy to follow the strict adherence to the laws. Who's on your NSA and who gets appointed to be councilors? Why would it be a progressive liberal minded person that would want to stretch the boundaries of the laws? The councilors are probably going to be sent to straighten someone like that out before they cause dissent.

 

[CG Didymus]

imagine that, people actually inspiring each other to be all they can.

Regards Tony

That was in regards to "yes" men. What range of opinions are there in UHJ meetings or in ITC meetings? Is there a "clash" of differing opinions? Is there dominant "alpha" males that take charge or is everybody equal? Ideally sure, but in reality? I would think some people carry more weight and authority than others.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That was in regards to "yes" men. What range of opinions are there in UHJ meetings or in ITC meetings? Is there a "clash" of differing opinions? Is there dominant "alpha" males that take charge or is everybody equal? Ideally sure, but in reality? I would think some people carry more weight and authority than others.

It's a big learning curve CG, we are trying to learn what is true consultation. I can assure you that in LSA meetings there is a clash of differing opinions, by the time they are elected to the National Spiritual Assembly, most have found a balance and have learnt that one must let go of opinions.

There is still quite some way to go as some can not let go of an opinion, some still try to dominate.

That is also why Shoghi Effendi Set up NSA and LSA, as it is going to take time to shake off old ways and old predudiced. In the future they will be Local and National Houses of Justice.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I think you meant to address that to the post i quoted, as it doesn't address my post?

It was sarcastically meant for your post, to make fun of Tony's post about religions building nations?

 

[CG Didymus]

It's a big learning curve CG, we are trying to learn what is true consultation. I can assure you that in LSA meetings there is a clash of differing opinions, by the time they are elected to the National Spiritual Assembly, most have found a balance and have learnt that one must let go of opinions.

That

And couldn't that balance be a move towards having a more conservative attitude?

Yes, to no Alcohol.
Yes to, no taking of non medicinal drugs.
Yes to, no sex before marriage.

Like with all of these... a new Baha'i, let's say he drinks beer with his friends watching a ball game. He goes out Saturday night and "fools" around with the ladies. And occasionial he and his friends light one up. But now he's a Baha'i.

He might even know about those laws yet, but when he does, will he cut out all his vices at once? Probably not. A few years go by and maybe he's doing pretty good but not perfect. He gets elected to the LSA. Problem is... who's perfect? NSA members? UHJ members? They might be, but I doubt it. But outwardly I'll bet they look and act perfect.

The Baha'is I knew, and the Christians I knew weren't perfect. But they could sure act perfect when they needed to. And that's a problem with "organized" religions that have a lot of laws. Who's going to be able to follow them all? And if they don't, but act like they do? That's worse.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And couldn't that balance be a move towards having a more conservative attitude?

I see It is more of a balance of further understanding the purpose of the Message of Baha'u'llah is unity in our diversity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And couldn't that balance be a move towards having a more conservative attitude?


Like with all of these... a new Baha'i, let's say he drinks beer with his friends watching a ball game. He goes out Saturday night and "fools" around with the ladies. And occasionial he and his friends light one up. But now he's a Baha'i.

He might even know about those laws yet, but when he does, will he cut out all his vices at once? Probably not. A few years go by and maybe he's doing pretty good but not perfect. He gets elected to the LSA. Problem is... who's perfect? NSA members? UHJ members? They might be, but I doubt it. But outwardly I'll bet they look and act perfect.

The Baha'is I knew, and the Christians I knew weren't perfect. But they could sure act perfect when they needed to. And that's a problem with "organized" religions that have a lot of laws. Who's going to be able to follow them all? And if they don't, but act like they do? That's worse.

We all have a lot to learn CG. There is also help if people have issues they need to address. There is also guidance for such issues.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I see It is more of a balance of further understanding the purpose of the Message of Baha'u'llah is unity in our diversity.

Regards Tony

Even with that, I think as a Baha'is learns more, that Baha'i puts off more of their old ways of thinking and becomes more conformed, or conservative, to thinking like other Baha'is. So, I think there will be less and less diversity in the ways the majority of Baha'is think. Out of that majority, Baha'is will probably vote in the most conservative Baha'i people, rather than some fringe thinking Baha'i.

 

[Vinayaka]

Even with that, I think as a Baha'is learns more, that Baha'i puts off more of their old ways of thinking and becomes more conformed, or conservative, to thinking like other Baha'is. So, I think there will be less and less diversity in the ways the majority of Baha'is think. Out of that majority, Baha'is will probably vote in the most conservative Baha'i people, rather than some fringe thinking Baha'i.

How else could you fit in, or perhaps stay in? Nobody likes a rabblerouser.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Even with that, I think as a Baha'is learns more, that Baha'i puts off more of their old ways of thinking and becomes more conformed, or conservative, to thinking like other Baha'is. So, I think there will be less and less diversity in the ways the majority of Baha'is think. Out of that majority, Baha'is will probably vote in the most conservative Baha'i people, rather than some fringe thinking Baha'i.

The great thing is that one is free to vote for whoever they choose to.

I see I am far from conservative, mostly on the fringes of the Faith all my Baha'i life. I am only too willing to tell Baha'i in the cities that many should have dispersed across the globe.

In the end faith is a container that ensures protection of us one and all, only inside the container of true liberty, no matter where we are inside it.

Fringe thinking does not have to be rebellious thinking.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How else could you fit in, or perhaps stay in? Nobody likes a rabblerouser.

To become a Baha'i' One would not to be a rabble-rouser.

It is not a desirable virtue.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

In the end faith is a container that ensures protection of us one and all, only inside the container of true liberty, no matter where we are inside it.

Fringe thinking does not have to be rebellious thinking.

Was Marten Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi rebellious? I'd say yes, but they tried to bring about change through civil disobedience. Would they be allowed to do that if they were Baha'is?

To become a Baha'i' One would not to be a rabble-rouser.

I'm sure, that before joining the Baha'i Faith, some people were. But if a Baha'is stays within the "container", how "fringe" can they be? I'm talking about a person that has joined the Baha'i Faith but sees no problem drinking wine or beer once in a while... Or having casual sex now and then. And I wouldn't doubt that a few Baha'is are like that. You wouldn't want those types of people in high positions of leadership, would you? But, unless they were open about it, how would anybody know? I knew several Baha'is and not one was without some vice. So, who's going to be "perfect" enough to get voted in? And which vices are overlooked, while others are ignored?

Anyway, the Baha'i Faith is a little better than some of the other religions. There are a few safeguards to keep the Faith from getting taken over by the wrong people. But, since we're all just fallible people, even the ones we think are the "best" amongst us, might be hiding some secrets. Like some of those high-level people, like a Hand of the Cause, who wouldn't have that they'd have a lust for power and become a Covenant-Breaker?

 

[Vinayaka]

To become a Baha'i' One would not to be a rabble-rouser.

It is not a desirable virtue.

Regards Tony

I was referring to the folks who get kicked out because of rabble rousing, or challenging the teachings they viewed as archaic, intolerant, homophobic, or lies. Of course you can't be a rabble rouser, and expect to stay in the faith. (What a lovely word - rabble rouser)
Rabble-rouser – Grammarist.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Was Marten Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi rebellious? I'd say yes, but they tried to bring about change through civil disobedience. Would they be allowed to do that if they were Baha'is?

The Bab and Baha'u'llah were persecuted because they were seen as rebellious.

A Baha'i is seen to be disobedience if they do not recant their Faith.

Baha'i will not recant their faith. Do you see that as disobedient?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But, since we're all just fallible people, even the ones we think are the "best" amongst us, might be hiding some secrets. Like some of those high-level people, like a Hand of the Cause, who wouldn't have that they'd have a lust for power and become a Covenant-Breaker?

Only God knows our hearts. That is why Baha'u'llah gave us the Covenant. For the first time in history we have a protection against people that want to take God's faith into their own direction.

Regards Tony

 

[Sheldon]

It was sarcastically meant for your post, to make fun of Tony's post about religions building nations?

Ah, my apologies then, as I missed it. Mea culpa....

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I was referring to the folks who get kicked out because of rabble rousing, or challenging the teachings they viewed as archaic, intolerant, homophobic, or lies. Of course you can't be a rabble rouser, and expect to stay in the faith. (What a lovely word - rabble rouser)
Rabble-rouser – Grammarist.

I would suggest one should never join a movement they disproved aspects of, as in doing so, is that not in itself a lie of intolerance?

Regards Tony