Tennessee passes Law, schools must display “In God We Trust”

[Nous]

Imo it costs you cooperation on more serious battles, just like in partisan politics. I doubt nobody doesn't know there are atheists in the country, as we as a demographic complain a lot about a lot of little. Re: the angry atheist

Do you really think that kids in public schools should be subjected to a plaque in every classroom that declares "In God We Trust"? Isn't that coercive, implying endorsement and lacking a secular purpose--all in violation of Establishment Clause jurisprudence?

 

[Phantasman]

A minor quibble....
The freedom to choose schooling other than public is quite limited because of the high cost.

Maybe. Same with dentists and doctors, food and cars. It's all about the frills.

 

[Shaul]

It all depends upon how you define "official".
If it appeared on our money, I say that's official enuf.
Thus, the far superior mottoes on the Fugio Cent precede the religious slogan.

No it doesn’t really. According to the Constitution only Congress has the power to legislate. Therefore only Congress may ultimately declare what is official for the U.S. They have only ever declared this one motto as official.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe. Same with dentists and doctors, food and cars. It's all about the frills.

There are free public doctors, food, cars, & dentists?

 

[Shaul]

Do you really think that kids in public schools should be subjected to a plaque in every classroom that declares "In God We Trust"? Isn't that coercive, implying endorsement and lacking a secular purpose--all in violation of Establishment Clause jurisprudence?

They don’t seem too upset or coerced to take currency which all has “In God We Trust” printed on it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not it doesn’t really. According to the Constitution only Congress has the power to legislate. Therefore only Congress may ultimately declare what is official for the U.S. They have only ever declared this one motto as official.

You chose your definition of "official", & I chose mine.
And laws can be changed.

 

[Phantasman]

Do you really think that kids in public schools should be subjected to a plaque in every classroom that declares "In God We Trust"? Isn't that coercive, implying endorsement and lacking a secular purpose--all in violation of Establishment Clause jurisprudence?

I wouldn't want a plaque in every room. We still have the Ten Commandments in our courthouse. Wouldn't want it to follow me into every room. They are more "discussion" pieces than rules of engagement.

I like the Desiderata. If I were a teacher, I'd hang one in the room.

 

[Revoltingest]

They don’t seem too upset or coerced to take currency which all has “In God We Trust” printed on it.

And I didn't turn down free public school when teachers led us in prayer & told Bible stories.
The former doesn't make the latter right though.

 

[Nous]

Do you really think that kids in public schools should be subjected to a plaque in every classroom that declares "In God We Trust"? Isn't that coercive, implying endorsement and lacking a secular purpose--all in violation of Establishment Clause jurisprudence?

They don’t seem too upset or coerced to take currency which all has “In God We Trust” printed on it.

Apparently you cannot argue that the Tennessee law passes the Lemon test, the coercion test or the endorsement test. Correct?

 

[Curious George]

It doesn't matter to you.
But it does to me.
Are you old enuf to have endured teacher led prayer in public school?
To have teacher preach the evils of disbelief....that we're doomed to Hell?
Experiences color our outlook.

It is not that it doesn't matter to me, it is that there is no intent to establish a religion. Your teachers choices were clearly in contrast to this.

Trying to change the subject from state law to individual action?

No just another example of how convention does not alone indicate purpose.

The motto doesn't identify me.
But it tells me that I'm not of this country.

I did not ask if you were identified by the motto. I asked if you were identified by the dollar in your billfold or coin in your purse.

Tell me....what purpose does the motto serve?

Ceremonial purpose.

Would you say we'd be worse off without it?

Better

Is there no better motto?

Absolutely. That doesn't mean that ours is unconstitutional.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

With so many to pick from, why not choose the earliest & most inclusive?
Besides, I'm not expending much effort advocating for a return to the original mottoes....
Fugio Cent - Wikipedia
The religious motto didn't arrive until the following century.

The statement that your rights were endowed by our Creator is the earliest. And I neither have to agree nor push to change it in order to get important work done, and because the effort to change it just because I don't find it inclusive wouldn't be worth it. And I imagine you probably don't care about the effort to change gendered language in official documents either, for inclusiveness sake.

 

[Curious George]

The statement that your rights were endowed by our Creator is the earliest. And I neither have to agree nor push to change it in order to get important work done, and because the effort to change it just because I don't find it inclusive wouldn't be worth it. And I imagine you probably don't care about the effort to change gendered language in official documents either, for inclusiveness sake.

Well to be fair I think he is talking about change it moving forward not try to change anything historically.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is not that it doesn't matter to me, it is that there is no intent to establish a religion. Your teachers choices were clearly in contrast to this.

No just another example of how convention does not alone indicate purpose.

I did not ask if you were identified by the motto. I asked if you were identified by the dollar in your billfold or coin in your purse.

Ceremonial purpose.

Better
Absolutely. That doesn't mean that ours is unconstitutional.

The money I have, which has the motto, tells me that this is not my country.
It's for believers, specifically Christians.
No answer for my questions?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Well to be fair I think he is talking about change it moving forward not try to change anything historically.

I didn't mean to imply that he was, sorry if it came off that way.
I more meant that what came first is irrelevant to the debate of what should change and why.

 

[Curious George]

The money I have, which has the motto, tells me that this is not my country.
It's for believers, specifically Christians.
No answer for my questions?

Again that is not what I asked. I asked whether you were identified with/by the dollar in your billfold or the coin in your purse.

I answered your questions that were not about personal experience.

 

[Revoltingest]

The statement that your rights were endowed by our Creator is the earliest.

But that was never a motto, unlike those on the Fugio Cent or Continental Dollar.

And I neither have to agree nor push to change it in order to get important work done, and because the effort to change it just because I don't find it inclusive wouldn't be worth it. And I imagine you probably don't care about the effort to change gendered language in official documents either, for inclusiveness sake.

Trying to deflect by introducing a new issue, & speculating that I don't care about it?
Oh, that's weak.
You're still advocating for an exclusive religious motto of recent invention.
& opposing the earlier better mottoes....the ones for all of us.

 

[Revoltingest]

Again that is not what I asked. I asked whether you were identified with/by the dollar in your billfold or the coin in your purse.

I answered your questions that were not about personal experience.

Let's try again....

Tell me....what purpose does the motto serve?
Would you say we'd be worse off without it?
Is there no better motto?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

You chose your definition of "official", & I chose mine.
And laws can be changed.

Well here's something we agree on buddy

You know I see our head clashing as playful fun, right?

 

[metis]

A trinitarian God, such as Christianity’s, not compatible with the God of Judaism.

That I fully agree with.

You are flat out wrong to say Jesus isn’t God according to Christians.

Again, you're missing the point as "the Mystery of the Trinity" is what's used, and if the teaching of the RCC is that Jesus is fully God in every literal sense, then it would no longer be a "Mystery". Think Aristotle and Plato, and then think of the word "essence" that Plato used in this context.

But I find it quite the definition of chutzpah for you to tell a Jew what is or isn’t Jewish.

LOL! If you think for one minute that there's unanimity when it comes to trying to "define" haShem, then it is you who has that as a problem. And even if I was a Christian, when you pull the arrogant crap that you did above, it certainly doesn't help your cause any as it comes off like "Us Jews know it all and you Gentiles haven't a clue".

Maybe it's best not to strut around in such a condescending manner like you did above, but then you support Trump-- no surprise. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea if you actually know at least a bit about the person you're insulting-- think "halacha".

 

[ADigitalArtist]

But that was never a motto, unlike those on the Fugio Cent or Continental Dollar

So what, it's still a defining document of our country, possibly the most defining, far more than any single line motto will ever be. And yet I feel no need to change something that, in practice, doesn't actually affect me, stirring up a lot of trouble for no gain. And I thought liberals were the 'for the feelings' party.

Trying to deflect by introducing a new issue, & speculating that I don't care about it?
Oh, that's weak.

An similous example isn't a deflection. You edited a post to include inferences of a white-based, heterosexual-based slogan and you're complaining about this? For crying out loud.