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Terrorism= Fear or Anger?

capslockf9

Active Member
Hey Love ,
to your statement "There cannot be a democratic government in Islam. They do not understand the concept."
The democraticaly duly elected president of Iran proposed the nationalization The oil conglomerate BP. Who untill then drilled and exported un-restricted. Natioanilization is antanginal of " American interest". Enter: The Shaw of Iran ( 1953 iranian coup detat )via political dirty tricks sponsored by The British and American (lobbied for) political instrument. The Khomeini revolution over throws that puppet. Enter: Saddam of Iraq via CIA support to fend of Iranian fundalmentalism.

So democracy existed and the people wanted control of the resources in their country.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
There cannot be a democratic government in Islam. They do not understand the concept.

Please do not insult mine, and many other, Muslim's ability to comprehend.

There are many pro-democracy Muslims. Try listening to us. We're not featured in the media that much, we're just not man bites dog enough, not bloody enough, not working ourselves into a frothy mess in the streets.
 

Pariah

Let go
Reza Aslan argues pretty convincingly that the real struggle al-Qaeda is concerned with is the struggle within Islam between the radicals and the moderates. In his opinion, terrorism against the West is intended to provoke retaliation, which in turn will stir up animosity against the West, force Muslims to choose sides, and make it more likely that they will side with the radicals over the moderates.

This argument seems to hold water for the majority of the time, considering the West's retaliatory measures. However, I have a feeling that even if the West did not intend to combat with physical violence, the terrorists would become increasingly angry that their plan failed!

Would this simply increase the number of terror attacks, or would we see an increase, than a sharp decline as followers drop, due to non-action (not inaction) on the part of the West?

Another parallel, that could be applicable, should anyone choose to do so is Gandhi and his struggle against the British. Gandhi and his followers protested non-violently and the British continued to beat up, harass, and even kill the Indians.
 

love

tri-polar optimist
Please forgive me Khalila, my words were wrong.
I should have said Islam can not except a democracy.
In Islam there is no choice but submission. You either believe or you are kaffir (unclean, the enemy).
But this is the opinion of someone who has grown up with the liberty to choose.
I did not live during the Inquisition, or the Salem witch hunt when so called "Christian leaders" were trying to control the thoughts of all men.
I just believe that the world is in a very dangerous place right now and people who think with tunnel vision (such as myself) are the biggest part of the problem.
I believe that we will all stand before God one day. I believe that the hearts of all men will be exposed for all to see.
I pray that God will have mercy on me for my prejudice and bigotry when my heart is revealed and found to be lacking because of ignorance.
Current world events have got most people stirred up. The horizon looks bleak. I think that people of all faiths are being tested and until God intervenes it will only get worse.
 

Smoke

Done here.
What's the difference between a moderate and a radical? I honestly can't tell outside of those actually strapping bombs to themselves. Maybe this isn't the right thread for that, but it's important that people know this difference don't you think?
I guess the simplest distinction is that the radicals have bombs. In Islam as in some other religions, you have people who believe that they, and only they, have the truth, and are willing to impose their "truth" at gunpoint.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Do you think that the West has fallen into this trap set up by the fundamental Muslims, and started Bush's war on terror?

Or do you think Bush make use of the opportunity to execute his neo con agenda?
Both. Bush has been good for Bin Laden's agenda, and Bin Laden for Bush's.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Watch Videos!!! Zeitgeist, etc = we are being scammed by our own politicians to begin with...
It’s them with the terror acts against our own peoples....
In Iraq they stopped medical supplies in 1990 for 10 years, was watching a documentary video on, which are across the web…..Not on the Tell-lies-vision!
That is illegal in any war policy??
You can not deprive medical supplies, yet there was no war?...
Watch and see children dying for no cause other then greed (Oil) and then speak…
As knowing what is going on, is what we all need to do globally and the word Armageddon is Megiddo and so “those who shout out” are needed.

There is a war of terror going on, we are just being used in the middle of it all, by own system that marks us with a number at birth, which we can not trade without...
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
What is the purpose of terrorism? Is it to promote fear or anger? Is it's purpose to cause people to have sympathies for a cause? Do the perpetrators seek retaliation? Is it to rob the world of the smallest freedoms considered a victory?
My questions could go on and on but the answers seem beyond my reach, even if I should reluctantly consider Islam as a religion of peace.

The purpose of terrorism is to instil fear in a nation or country, with every individual being aware that he (or she) might well be a target of the terrorists. That use of fear is to accomplish a goal.

In the present circumstances, unfortunately, the purpose is dictated by extremist and fundamentalist Muslims who want to see the entire world converted to islam - unfortunately, there is no way of putting this accross than by upsetting Muslim members here - and yet, I am certain that no member here would fit into that category.

It is sad, and yet it is the reality; the decadence of the West (as seen by people who follow Islam) needs to be eradicated, because it offends Muslims who feel that it is their responsability to ensure that people who sin (according to their belief) are eradicated.

Harsh, blunt, and regretfully representative of the present situation worldwide.:(
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Love said:
There cannot be a democratic government in Islam. They do not understand the concept.
As i do know that you can't back up what you said, i prefer to give you a link, maybe it will help you to understand the Islamic concept of the government system:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52265&page=3

You either believe or you are kaffir (unclean, the enemy).
If you followed Islam, your a muslim and if you didn't your a non-muslim!!! :shrug:
This is new to me; i didn't know that the kafir is unclean and the enemy!!
I don't know but if you don't understand something why don't you ask instead of talking from your own imagination and saying things that have nothing to do with the truth!!
 

TurtleGirl

Not a Member
To answer the simplest question up there, I think from a Islamic extremist's POV, terrorism is to promote fear among the enemy (that's us). However, it doesn't seem to have that effect as much, since as far as I can tell, terrorism only makes people angry. Perhaps a bit fearful, but mostly angry.

Anger is an emotional reaction to the feeling of fear. Instill fear and anger usually follows. Especially when heightened by a false-bravado of psuedo-patriotism.

Oh yes, and I agree with you about Islam. IMO, it can hardly be called a religion of peace. Not trying to attack anyone's religion, or be close-minded. Just my opinion, based on verses from the Koran, and of course, recent events.

With all due respect, you say that but your words and really much of this thread as I have read it thus far display an inherent desire to rip Islam apart because it isn't Christianity. The terrorists attacking the United States and its allies are not representative of Islam. They are representative of a political and social aim that has to do with the intrinsically brutal and close-minded view the United States (a body politic) has that the entire world must operate as it says or it will beat them all up. If there are any religious implications to it, it would be the fact that the United States as of late seems to be adopting some "Christian" (and I find this indentification dubious but it is the identification purported by the Bush Administration supporters) philosophies and trying to peddle them along with Americas blend of "democracy" (again a dubious term since we are truly a republic form of government with some representative democracy splashed in).

As for basing the violence and lack of peace inherent in a religious group on verses from their holy book, I would assert that Christians and Jews would logically be determined no more peaceful by the same analysis of the Old and New Testaments. Anyone who reads the passages and doesn't just cherry-pick them or take them out of context for their own ego-stroking gains will see that there are some horribly violent, abusive and degrading passages in the Bible akin to the horrible parts of Islam that others seem to want highlighted from the Quran.

In all honesty, there are horrid passages in all holy books. The wisdom of their followers comes in knowing when such a passage is inhumane and learning to transcend such villainy and live a truly just and moral life. There are equal parts of both virtuous and villainous in all organized religions. Let's stop trying to ordain Islam a villainous faith by default and understand that all things have a balance.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
The genesis and purpose of terrorism is simply hate. The hate may be due to hate and fear, but it is the raw unadulterated hate that poisons the lives and the actions of these terrorists.

Unfortunately, when we try to define why they hate in terms of religion and/or ethnicity, we are judging everyone in those religions/ethnicities on the actions of but a few extremists. To what end? So that we might have a group that WE can hate? Sounds self propagating to me.

We need to STOP THE MADNESS. Each of us individually needs to learn to coexist with all of the different religions and ethnicities as well as genders and sexual preferences. Instead of hate and intolerance, we need to clothe our selves with love and tolerance. I saw a bumper sticker that formed the words coexist with the symbols from the various religions. What a cool bumper sticker! http://carryabigsticker.com/index.html?gclid=CNvVkNeXmI0CFQElgAodgkcF1Q
 

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capslockf9

Active Member
Anger is an emotional reaction to the feeling of fear. Instill fear and anger usually follows. Especially when heightened by a false-bravado of psuedo-patriotism.



With all due respect, you say that but your words and really all of this thread as I have read it thus far display an inherent desire to rip Islam apart because it isn't Christianity. The terrorists attacking the United States and its allies are not representative of Islam. They are representative of a political and social aim that has to do with the intrinsically brutal and close-minded view the United States (a body politic) has that the entire world must operate as it says or it will beat them all up. If there are any religious implications to it, it would be the fact that the United States as of late seems to be adopting some "Christian" (and I find this indentification dubious but it is the identification purported by the Bush Administration supporters) philosophies and trying to peddle them along with Americas blend of "democracy" (again a dubious term since we are truly a republic form of government with some representative democracy splashed in).

As for basing the violence and lack of peace inherent in a religious group on verses from their holy book, I would assert that Christians and Jews would logically be determined no more peaceful by the same analysis of the Old and New Testaments. Anyone who reads the passages and doesn't just cherry-pick them or take them out of context for their own ego-stroking gains will see that there are some horribly violent, abusive and degrading passages in the Bible akin to the horrible parts of Islam that others seem to want highlighted from the Koran.

In all honesty, there are horrid passages in all holy books. The wisdom of their followers comes in knowing when such a passage is inhumane and learning to transcend such villainy and live a truly just and moral life. There are equal parts of both virtuous and villainous in all organized religions. Let's stop trying to ordain Islam a villainous faith by default and understand that all things have a balance.


The doctrines , mulimism, jewism and christianism are egotistical products. Untill this self imposed mental prisons are removed, evil will abound. This doctrines primarily were an attempts to explain nature. Some highjacked the idea so they can control groups. They instill patriotism in the unenlightened. The narrow-mind, in their ignorant bliss, produce unmeditate evil. These ill-concieved dogmas will imprison and control the minds and are in opposition to The Great Spirit intent.

And about the dubious term democracy: The American democracy has also been highjacked. A tactic used is "lobby money" ,which can be read "bribery".
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
That's so discusting and i felt as i want to throw up when i read it.

I agree, that was my response. The mind turns away, the soul is repulsed, the physical body rejects such evil in horror.

I'm curious though. If these things are truly uttered by human lips by one claiming or granted authority and in the name of Allah, what is to be done according to the Koran?

(I am saying "what if", not accepting that this story is in fact true.)
 

capslockf9

Active Member
  • And now for some ultra-sensitivities and wickedness
  1. Genesis 38:8-10 - "Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also."
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
What is wrong with democracy?

That depends on who you are.

Why would extremists like democracy? By the very fact that they are...extreme...their opinions will not be approved of by the populace at large. Extremists cannot use a democratic political system to enact their views into law.

Other than that, some of those who take to terrorism do so because they perceive (rightly or wrongly) that the political situation is corrupt and/or cannot be influenced.

Look at the two most notable terrorist acts here in the U.S. in the past few years.

Oklahoma City: The perps in this incident had no reason to believe their views would be supported by our democratic system, because they were suspicious of gov't to the point of paranoia. From their point of view, petitioning the gov't for redress was like asking a fox to guard the henhouse.

911: The perps in this incident were upset by Western (and particularly American) colonial interference in their native lands. They are not happy about their own gov'ts either, but there are a number of reasons why they might choose to hit us first. Oh sure, everything is couched in terms of Islam, but don't make the mistake of thinking they would be attacking us if we didn't have a foreign policy designed to keep their native land oppressive and corrupt and ensure we maximize the profits of certain people living here. bin Laden has been very up front about what he didn't like -- U.S. presence on Saudi soil. Look, if a foreign country had bases here, would *we* be happy about that? I doubt it. He's an extremist to be sure, but he's not completely lacking in reason. To believe "they hate our freedoms" is to make the cardinal mistake of believing our politicians are actually telling us the truth all the time.

The world is so varied and getting smaller everyday and not all of us desire to be controlled in a manner that Sharia law would impose.

There are many versions of what is sharia law, and they differ greatly from one culture to the next. It would be a mistake to assume that some of the things you hear about what's in sharia law applies everywhere. (read the Islam forum here for some ideas about this)

Think of the situation in Judaism, for a similar example. What "the Law" entails depends very much on whom you consult. A Reform Jew might tell you that he will never, ever eat a kid (goat) boiled in its mother's milk. An Orthodox Jew would tell you he will never, ever eat a cheeseburger. They don't have a lot of strife over differences, but still there are a few neighborhoods in the world I would not drive through on Shabbat. My car might be pelleted by rocks, even though I am not Jewish and am not subject to the same Law they are.

Religions are not different than other organizations -- they all have their extremists.

Even mine does. We're just fortunate enough to have an organizational system that dampens and dilutes and does not encourage extremist views. Oh, that might change some day, but in the meantime I'm enjoying the peace and quiet. :beach:
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
"Terrorism has no place in Islam"
I agree

Seems a whole bunch of terrorists don't though.

It had no place in Christianity either, but tell that to some of the people who were blowing things up in Ireland and the UK generally.

To be quite frank, I believe if it were not for the strong cultural traditions of freedom of religion we have in this country (U.S.) we might well have more "Christian terrorists" among us. But the more extreme Christians here seem to prefer working within the system to change things, fortunately for the rest of us (and for Christianity).
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]Hmmm...ultimate religion of peace, huh? That doesn't seem to add up. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]
[/FONT]

Try not reading it in a cultural and historical vaccuum.

Next I suppose you'll try to tell us that Jews are the ultimate in religion-inspired violence. I mean, look at that invasion of Canaan!
 
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