I've yet to hear that.
Who are the "Pilgrim Fathers"?
Were there "Pilgrim Mothers"?
Did you know the Pilgrims (Plymouth Colony) fled persecution by Christians in England?
History is useful.
Religious instruction is not.
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Texas legislature is trying to violate the First Amendment:
- Thread starter Subduction Zone
- Start date
Who are the "Pilgrim Fathers"?
Were there "Pilgrim Mothers"?
Did you know the Pilgrims (Plymouth Colony) fled persecution by Christians in England?
Religious instruction is not.
Because they were Christians themselves.
They were not atheists.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Yep. And it is important for the understanding of the US that they were. Only in that light make the Salem witch trials and even slavery and the civil war sense. And you know who doesn't want to teach those things? The religious right.
Oh, and it is unimportant if you yourself are religious to understand history.
It's Cancel Culture to pull down the statues in the South, because they are statues portraying the protagonists of the Confederation.
It's Cancel Culture to skip the slavery period and the American Civil War.
For instance, in my country we study the two world wars and Fascism very, very thoroughly. And no fascist monument has ever been touched.
Tu study history is essential not to make the same mistakes.
Which is fine. Every society gets to choose who it honours.
No, it's the people opposed to "cancel culture" who are trying to skip teaching about slavery and the Civil War, calling it "critical race theory," which they oppose for some reason.
IMO, the reason that Italy still has so many fascist monuments is because Italy still has a lot of fascist sympathizers.
It's simpler than that. Monuments cannot be touched by law.
It's funny how the US and Italy have taken opposite approaches: Italy executed its tyrants and now protects the tyrants' monuments, while the US protected its Confederate tyrants and is now tearing down their monuments.
While both approaches are flawed, the Italian approach is admittedly better. It would have been good for Nathan Bedford Forrest to have died behind bars instead of in a comfortable bed as an old man, but it does seem like the least we can do now is tear down his statues and **** on his grave.
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Not necessary. Almost everybody thinks the Ten Commandments were written twice in the Bible: (Exodus 20:2-17 and Deut. 5:6-21). But it is not so! And the actual text of those two sources never use the term "Ten Commandments."
But there is another list, and at the end of that list, the text actually does end with the term "The Ten Commandments." and that is in Exodus 34. Note especially Verse 28, but also remark on the viciousness of Verse 7 (highlighted):
34 And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
4 And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the Lord had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.
6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
10 And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
20 But the firstling of an *** thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
23 Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.
24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord thy God thrice in the year.
25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
I do not see a problem with ten timeless rules, posted on the wall, that can help people get along better; team affect.
Texas state Senate approves bill to post Ten Commandments in public schools
The Texas state Senate approved a bill on Thursday that would require public schools in the Lone Star state to prominently display the Ten Commandments in every classroom. The legislation, which pa…thehill.com
That's right, trying to give Florida Man a run for his money the Texas State legislature tries to show that they are even more idiotic. They passed a bill ordering the posting of the Ten Commandments in public schools. How will non-Abrahamic religions respond?
What I see is a knee jerk reaction, by Atheists and Leftist because of a connection to anything religion, even without a common sense analysis of the content to be posted. It is not much different than hating any foreign car, without ever looking under the hood. This is not very rational coming from people who say they are rational.
Thou shall not steal. Why is that taboo to the Left? Is stealing good in your philosophy?
Honor thy Father and Mother. Does the Left prefer disrespectful brat children? Why are you offended by this?
This is different from being forced to learn pronouns to promote an expensive new medical fad. That was a fad, with no real value, other than being a test run for mind control over children, by shady leadership. Ten loose rules for good behavior can be helpful to all, except those who benefit by shady behavior.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
No, that's not "cancel culture".
It may be considered a form of political correctness, but:
1) those statues were monuments to people who were explicit enemies of the USA.
2) those statues celebrate people who fought a war to protect that institution of slavery
And
3) those statues were not historical monuments, but were erected mostly in the early 1900s as a direct response to the early civil rights movement as a way of intimidating black communities in the south.
I have no problem with them being pulled down.
No, again, that is not "cancel culture". It's white washing.
What do you think "cancel culture" is?
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That doesn't add up. They erected those statues to remind people of the Confederate States period.
So the American Civil War is something they wouldn't skip.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Or is it the other way around?
We have our share of fascists but not as open, proud and many as those in Italy. We got rid of most of our monuments.
Christians fleeing oppressive Christians.
I know.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh, you want the revised version. Not what was written on the stones. How about numbers one through four? Those do no good an definitely do some evil.
And I do not think that you are a medical expert, so let's leave any biased thoughts of yours out on that. You would appear to be willing to harm others due to that.
Well, to begin with, there are really only 6 Commandments that deal with people, the first four being:
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make thee any graven images or bow down to them, and if you do I'll get you and your kids and their descendants.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the lord in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
Now, for anyone who isn't religious, or are polytheistic, those can be a bit offensive. Number 2, especially. I mean, Michelangelo made quite a few "graven images," as did many other artists. And though Mike didn't have kids, many other artists did, and for 3 and 4 generations, their children, according to God, had to be punished for it!
Now, for the fifth Commandment, I grew up in the Children's Aid, after having been nearly killed twice at home -- and you think I should be commanded to "honour" my abusers? Not bloody likely! And let's be honest, there are many parents locked up in U.S. prisons. How much honour should they be afforded?
Six, thou shalt not kill. Okay, not bad in principle. But what about in self-defense, or defense of one's home, children, or country?
Seven, thou shalt not commit adultery. Sadly, another case of absolutism that can only lead to pain. Sometimes, you may have heard, affection does not last a life-time. Things happen. A husband (or wife) may be cruel, abusive, but not willing to divorce. Tough luck to the abused partner, but rules-is-rules, no fun for you the rest of your life.
Eight, thou shalt not steal. Not bad. But what about when you've been through a natural disaster, need insulin for your kid, and the drugstore is closed? Still not permitted to steal, in such a dire situation? Again, absolutism doesn't consider anything but an ideal world, which, as Thomas More suggested, is "No Place (Utopia)." Interestingly, Napoleon had this figured out, when he said:
"How can you have order in a state without religion? For, when one man is dying of hunger near another who is ill of surfeit, he cannot resign himself to this difference unless there is an authority which declares, 'God wills it thus.' Religion is excellent stuff for keeping people quiet."
Nine, thou shalt not bear false witness. Show me the politician who can obey that one, I dare you!
Let's look at "coveting." Thou shalt not covet (a bunch of things). But to covet is a thought, not a deed. That means that one of these 10 Commandments is explicitly about thought control -- how very Orwellian 1984!
Well, students should be studying the Pilgrims and how their beliefs and practices conflicted with the beliefs and practices of other religious groups, both in Europe before their big to move, and after. How their extremist views came to dominate political discourse in the colonies and young nation should certainly be a topic covered in history classes.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Not exactly. They fled to the Netherlands first and that was very religiously open. They were worried about their children leaving the faith. They wanted the right to impose their religious beliefs on others. In this case on their children, even if they wanted to leave the faith.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
Sounds good to me (mostly)!
Yes, the history of how some Christian groups attempted to exterminate other Christian groups and their followers...and how slowly, over centuries, the legal backing of government was removed from those churches, so that individuals would have the freedom to practice their choice of religion without having to fear the government imposing a different religion on them...
Something that the Texas law is attempting to undo.
Jump'n Jeebus....where else would I have a homo heathen
hockey hoser hooptie spout'n Bible verses at me.