Texas legislature is trying to violate the First Amendment:

[Revoltingest]

Not exactly. They fled to the Netherlands first and that was very religiously open. They were worried about their children leaving the faith. They wanted the right to impose their religious beliefs on others. In this case on their children, even if they wanted to leave the faith.

Close enuf.
(I was aware they sojourned in Holland.)

 

[Alien826]

Well, to begin with, there are really only 6 Commandments that deal with people, the first four being:
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make thee any graven images or bow down to them, and if you do I'll get you and your kids and their descendants.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the lord in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.

Now, for anyone who isn't religious, or are polytheistic, those can be a bit offensive. Number 2, especially. I mean, Michelangelo made quite a few "graven images," as did many other artists. And though Mike didn't have kids, many other artists did, and for 3 and 4 generations, their children, according to God, had to be punished for it!

Now, for the fifth Commandment, I grew up in the Children's Aid, after having been nearly killed twice at home -- and you think I should be commanded to "honour" my abusers? Not bloody likely! And let's be honest, there are many parents locked up in U.S. prisons. How much honour should they be afforded?

Six, thou shalt not kill. Okay, not bad in principle. But what about in self-defense, or defense of one's home, children, or country?

Seven, thou shalt not commit adultery. Sadly, another case of absolutism that can only lead to pain. Sometimes, you may have heard, affection does not last a life-time. Things happen. A husband (or wife) may be cruel, abusive, but not willing to divorce. Tough luck to the abused partner, but rules-is-rules, no fun for you the rest of your life.

Eight, thou shalt not steal. Not bad. But what about when you've been through a natural disaster, need insulin for your kid, and the drugstore is closed? Still not permitted to steal, in such a dire situation? Again, absolutism doesn't consider anything but an ideal world, which, as Thomas More suggested, is "No Place (Utopia)." Interestingly, Napoleon had this figured out, when he said:

"How can you have order in a state without religion? For, when one man is dying of hunger near another who is ill of surfeit, he cannot resign himself to this difference unless there is an authority which declares, 'God wills it thus.' Religion is excellent stuff for keeping people quiet."​

Nine, thou shalt not bear false witness. Show me the politician who can obey that one, I dare you!

Let's look at "coveting." Thou shalt not covet (a bunch of things). But to covet is a thought, not a deed. That means that one of these 10 Commandments is explicitly about thought control -- how very Orwellian 1984!

I generally agree with you, but you have to cut a bit of slack where a limited number of words are used to describe a general principle. "Kill" should probably be taken to mean "murder", and "bearing false witness" (I believe) refers to testifying in court, not all lying, for example.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, the history of how some Christian groups attempted to exterminate other Christian groups and their followers...and how slowly, over centuries, the legal backing of government was removed from those churches, so that individuals would have the freedom to practice their choice of religion without having to fear the government imposing a different religion on them...

Something that the Texas law is attempting to undo.

It's a fact that Texans are very nationalistic.
Even in Europe we know that they are very proud of being Texans. And of their identity. So they just want to underline the historical and cultural principles of their own state.
It's not imposing Christianity on children. It's just an aspect of the culture. Children are free to be atheists or not-Christians.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Close enuf.
(I was aware they sojourned in Holland.)

I don't know about that. In Holland there was no oppression from the state. That claim was valid in England. In Holland they were worried about themselves not being able to do to others what the British did to them.

 

[Heyo]

Not exactly. They fled to the Netherlands first and that was very religiously open. They were worried about their children leaving the faith. They wanted the right to impose their religious beliefs on others. In this case on their children, even if they wanted to leave the faith.

:informative:

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Christians always (IMO) believe their personal interpretation
of the Bible is the only true one. So we get an abridged
version of a translation of a translation of a collection of
some books, but not all. The possible combinations
of belief are numerous indeed. Thus we have an
official Texas Christianity.

What SZ listed is what the Bible itself calls the 10 Commandments. That other list was just one of the other times Yahwey gave more rules and policies.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In my opinion it is a very smart thing.
Christian culture is essential to understand the history of the US.

Only in regards to why America was established as a secular nation.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I generally agree with you, but you have to cut a bit of slack where a limited number of words are used to describe a general principle. "Kill" should probably be taken to mean "murder", and "bearing false witness" (I believe) refers to testifying in court, not all lying, for example.

And I put it to you that a similarly brief list of principles for ethical thinking would be a much, much better guide posted on school walls. How about these (and there are only 5):

Autonomy, justice, beneficence, nonmaleficence, and fidelity. By exploring dilemmas regarding to these principles, one may come to a better understanding of the conflicting issues, and make better decision.

Autonomy addresses independence -- people must be permitted to make their own decisions.
Beneficence means to do good, to the extent that you are able.
Nonmaleficence means to do no harm, to the extent that you are able.
Justice means treating equals equally, and non-equals unequally, but in proportion to their relevant differences.
Fidelity involves the notions of loyalty, faithfulness, and honoring commitments.

Everything you might wish to do, when examined through that little list weighing the principles against each other and the situation, can be considered a go or no-go.

 

[Subduction Zone]

:informative:

When one learns why they left the Netherlands it does change the narrative for those "founding fathers" quite a bit.

Why Did the Pilgrims Come to America? | HISTORY

They were less religious refugees than economic migrants.

www.history.com

" While the Pilgrim population dwindled, their fears swelled that the secular Dutch society that tolerated their religious beliefs also corrupted the morals of their children, causing them to turn away from their church and English identity. Bradford complained that “many of their children” were succumbing to Leiden’s “manifold temptations” and being “drawn away by evil examples into extravagant and dangerous courses.”"

Now to be honest economics was part of the reason too. They lived in the Netherlands for ten years and as a people had nothing to show for it. They were working rather hard in the textile industries, probably many illegal immigrants here. They would have been at the bottom of the economic ladder and did not see any way to climb it. The New World offered them that chance to own a place and be their own masters. So it was not 1005 religious intolerance on their part.

 

[Heyo]

What I see is a knee jerk reaction, by Atheists and Leftist because of a connection to anything religion,

What I see is a reaction by law abiding citizens.

Should not, in a secular school, the rules of the land be preferred, like the Bill of Rights and the Amendments to the constitution? And if you had those in your school, you'd know that the first Commandment is in conflict with the first Amendment.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yep. And it is important for the understanding of the US that they were. Only in that light make the Salem witch trials and even slavery and the civil war sense. And you know who doesn't want to teach those things? The religious right.
Oh, and it is unimportant if you yourself are religious to understand history.

Yup. The Salem With trials was among the last of the witch trials in the West. The less Christian Europe largely quit those long before America. Slavery would have been ended here much sooner had the Revolution been delayed by just a decade.
Christianity has done nothing in America except make things worse and show us why it's so necessary for the state to not respect the establishment of religion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That doesn't add up. They erected those statues to remind people of the Confederate States period.
So the American Civil War is something they wouldn't skip.

They erected those nkt to remember. Do we need statues to remember Hitler? Pol Pot? General Lee himself didn't want statues because it would be to celebrate amd commemorate the time when America was at war with itself.
Those statues went up to honor traitors who fought against their own country to preserve slavery, ans they overwhelmingly went up when black people were making gains in civil equality and rights.

 

[Father Heathen]

Don't you just love the nanny state?

You vote for 'em.

 

[Father Heathen]

In my opinion it is a very smart thing.
Christian culture is essential to understand the history of the US.

No, violating the establishment clause of the first amendment is extremely stupid.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That would be a creative and informative way of malicious compliance.

It wouldn't be "compliance," though.

The law spells out the exact text that has to be used: the King James Version with all its "thous" and "thys", broken up according to the Protestant way of numbering the Ten Commandments.

It's not only exclusionary to non-Christians; it's exclusionary to Christians who aren't Protestants.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, violating the establishment clause of the first amendment is extremely stupid.

In all the offices of the Public Administration including classrooms and courtrooms, there is a crucifix on the wall. In my country.
Does that imposes Christianity on others?

 

[Father Heathen]

In many countries Satanism is outlawed, by the way.
Not all religions are equal.

You're right, they're not; satanism is superior to Christianity.

Not all countries are equal, either: the ones that allow freedom of religion are better.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In all the offices of the Public Administration including classrooms and courtrooms, there is a crucifix on the wall.
Does that imposes Christianity on others?

Yes, it does.

More importantly, it tells non-Christians that they should expect to be treated as second-class.

 

[Father Heathen]

In all the offices of the Public Administration including classrooms and courtrooms, there is a crucifix on the wall. In my country.
Does that imposes Christianity on others?

It shows that the state favors one religion above others, which is a slap to the face of those who don't belong to that religion, especially if the government is supposed to represent all citizens. That's why secularism (i.e. religious neutrality) is important in the free world.

 

[Estro Felino]

It shows that the state favors one religion above others, which is a slap to the face of those who don't belong to that religion, especially if the government is supposed to represent all citizens. That's why secularism (i.e. religious neutrality) is important in the free world.

Jesus Christ's historical existence doesn't imply theism, that is the belief in a God.
It's a cultural symbol, above all.
After all, nobody can demonstrate God does exist.