Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
I'm a Christian and don't want religious symbols displayed on government property. Your false dichotomy is false.
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"Texas State Rep. Files Bill to Let Teachers Post Ten Commandments in Classrooms"
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Woberts
The Perfumed Seneschal
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but
atheism =/= secularism
Aye, a fundie friend once told me he likes secularism cuz
otherwise there's no telling what flavor of watered down
compromised Christianity would take the reins.
He even said he'd vote for me for Prez. Faint praise
though, given the competition.
One thing I regularly heard from the Muslims I got to know several years ago was "I like the religious freedom of USA secularism, because I can practice my Islam the way I think it should be done."
Lots of religious people are very secular with regard to the government and government functions.
Tom
Lots of religious people are very secular with regard to the government and government functions.
Tom
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Hmm, so what is the very first Commandment?
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
No one says you are required to believe it or follow it. Can you say you follow every traffic law because you see a sign? never went over the speed limit? So seeing something written on a wall will not force you to obey it. No religion is being established by the government. Would seeing a cross force you to become a Christian or a Star of David force you to become a Jew? If so you are very weak minded and cannot decide for yourself. I see many things I would prefer not to see but I just ignore them. I do not demand that they be removed from my sight. That is being open minded. Demanding the removal of something you do not like is very close minded.
Why? I have no issue with schools teaching that there are different religious beliefs around the world, and even teaching the basics of what those belief systems are about. That easily viewed as part of an education.
What schools must NOT do is teach what to believe. Or not to believe, when it comes to religious matters.
Woberts
The Perfumed Seneschal
Sorry, but that's the law. If you don't like it, there's a process to change it.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I agree with you totally.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
The Constitution says the government shall not ESTABLISH religion. Posting signs and symbols is not establishing religion. And you did not say if you follow everything you see on a sign or wall. So would you personally be harmed in any way if there was a sign or picture you did not like?
Woberts
The Perfumed Seneschal
Your opinion goes against what the supreme court has said about this matter, and is therefor irrelevant. Of course, the supreme court could be replaced by conservatives who disregard the constitution they claim to uphold, but that's a topic for another time.
Until then, you might want to refrain from spouting nonsense.
Skwim
Veteran Member
So in as much as I see no mentioned intent to post Buddhism's Four Noble Truths or its Three jewels, Or Hinduism's four Aims of Life, Or the Five Pillars of Islam, what would you say to not posting the Ten Commandments, but posting one of these alternatives instead?
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Curious George
Veteran Member
No, but I do believe that the government is endorsing those.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
As long as I am not forced to follow or live by them I have no problem at all. Even post a picture of Satan. I can turn my head or ignore them. That is what is different about atheists. They are afraid to look at something they do not believe. They are not being forced to follow any rules or become religious or anything else. But they just do not want other people to see these things either.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
So how do you define establish?
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
The key word is establish not endorse. There is a difference.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Not according to the courts. And not according to the Supreme Court. When it comes to interpreting the Constitution the Supreme Court's interpretation is the definitive one.
Curious George
Veteran Member
You should read the cases that deal with the establishment clause.
Curious George
Veteran Member
It is not just the Courts. One can not reasonably argue that the establishment clause requires the government to in fact establish a religion. Government is proscribed from creating any law "respecting the establishment of religion." It seems some here would like to ignore the word respecting and previous drafts and discussion on the first Ammendment. It is convenient for their beliefs.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
The very first commandment says that you must worship "the Lord your God" above all other gods. Which God is being talked about? Oh yeah, the god of the Bible.
Putting a list of "commandments" from the Bible (i.e. from the Christian religion) on the wall in a public school where the very first one commands "I am the Lord your God. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" certainly sounds like an endorsement of a specific religion to me.
How would you feel if someone wanted to plaster Quranic verses all over public school classrooms? Something tells me your tune might change.