That Wacky.....no....Demented United Arab Emirates

[Bismillah]

I don't know. I don't have access to the data.

That is not too far from my stance

Hi Luis if we do not have all the data then it is reasonable to remain neutral instead of condemning the man as guilty of rape, that is a serious accusation.

Also I'm not sure in Brazil, but in the American justice system the idea of innocent until proven guilty always takes precedence.

But I take rape claims seriously, as is only fair.

Everyone should take a rape claim seriously, that does not mean that a rape claim should be believed credulously. In such a case, it must be proven in a court of law and unfortunately rape is one of the hardest crimes to prove. It's a shame but it is the best a flawed system can do.

 

[Falvlun]

Hi Luis if we do not have all the data then it is reasonable to remain neutral instead of condemning the man as guilty of rape, that is a serious accusation.

Also I'm not sure in Brazil, but in the American justice system the idea of innocent until proven guilty always takes precedence.

Are you similarly outraged that she was convicted of lying about being raped, and that her story was deemed untrue, despite the fact that that can't be proven either?

 

[Bismillah]

Are you similarly outraged that she was convicted of lying about being raped, and that her story was deemed untrue, despite the fact that that can't be proven either?

I am not outraged, I just think we should tread carefully and remain neutral because the facts are conflicting.

I think she was convicted of sex outside of marriage not lying about being raped correct? She was convicted of filing a false report, which is true either way because she did change her story from consensual sex to rape. I think the court decided she was guilty of sex outside of marriage because this was what she originally told the police, the story was deemed untrue because she changed her story.

Either way I am glad she was pardoned because no one knows, definitively, what happened. I am also glad that the Arab man was pardoned because no one knows, definitively, what happened. Good job for the Emir of Dubai.

It's unfortunate many media outlets are reporting the case with wording that implicitly and even explicitly states that the Norwegian women was raped.

 

[Shermana]

Are you similarly outraged that she was convicted of lying about being raped, and that her story was deemed untrue, despite the fact that that can't be proven either?

She was convicted of filing a false report after changing her story.

 

[ignition]

Are you similarly outraged that she was convicted of lying about being raped, and that her story was deemed untrue, despite the fact that that can't be proven either?

Well she was convicted of having sex outside marriage, which is technically true even if she was raped. So they got that right haha Sorry about the dark humour.

 

[Shermana]

It's unfortunate many media outlets are reporting the case with wording that implicitly and even explicitly states that the Norwegian women was raped.

It is very odd that the news sites are reporting the story as if we know for a fact what happened exactly, with the judgment and editorializing already made.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Well she was convicted of having sex outside marriage, which is technically true even if she was raped. So they got that right haha Sorry about the dark humour.

That seems more like dark garbage. Think a little bit more before you post.

 

[ignition]

That seems more like dark garbage. Think a little bit more before you post.

As an admin or a user?

 

[Debater Slayer]

As an admin or a user?

That was my personal opinion.

And an admin is a user too.

 

[Falvlun]

She was convicted of filing a false report after changing her story.

She was also convicted of having unlawful sex. :slap:

 

[Shermana]

She was also convicted of having unlawful sex. :slap:

Yes, that's an issue that affects everyone in that country and has to do with national sovereignty issues and their rights to their own cultural-based laws whether you like them or not. However, I was just correcting this common misunderstanding that she was jailed for lying about it.

 

[ignition]

That was my personal opinion.

And an admin is a user too.

Fair enough, I thought it might've been outside the rules. I do have a dark humour admittedly and some of them have caused problems, but I can't help myself haha I do make it clear it's only a joke though, because apparently they've been ambigious in the past. You're going to have to excuse my humour

 

[Falvlun]

Yes, that's an issue that affects everyone in that country and has to do with national sovereignty issues and their rights to their own cultural-based laws whether you like them or not. However, I was just correcting this common misunderstanding that she was jailed for lying about it.

Is being raped considered engaging in unlawful sex?

If yes, then that is heinous and I won't waste two breaths before saying such a culture sucks.

If no, then that was my point: it was assumed she was lying about being raped. She was convicted as a liar, despite having no proof that she was.

 

[Bismillah]

Is rape considered unlawful sex?

Refer to my earlier post which details cases of rape being prosecuted in the Emirates

 

[Shermana]

Is being raped considered engaging in unlawful sex?

If yes, then that is heinous and I won't waste two breaths before saying such a culture sucks.

If no, then that was my point: it was assumed she was lying about being raped. She was convicted as a liar, despite having no proof that she was.

She was convicted of changing her story and thus, filing a false report. Thus, obviously, it was assumed she was "lying" because she herself said it was consentual, officially.

Last I checked, being raped is not a crime itself in Dubai. Being unable to prove it however, may have more consequences there than here.

 

[Falvlun]

She was convicted of changing her story and thus, filing a false report. Thus, obviously, it was assumed she was "lying" because she herself said it was consentual, officially.

Last I checked, being raped is not a crime itself in Dubai. Being unable to prove it however, may have more consequences there than here.

Why are you refusing to acknowledge that she was convicted of more than one charge?

She was convicted of 3 separate charges:
1. Public intoxication.
2. Making a false statement.
3. Engaging in unlawful sex.

 

[Falvlun]

Last I checked, being raped is not a crime itself in Dubai. Being unable to prove it however, may have more consequences there than here.

Do you think that it is a good thing to threaten woman with jail time for reporting rapes that they cannot prove beyond a shadow of doubt? Don't you think that will likely result in an under-reporting of rape, and give much more power to would-be rapers?

 

[LuisDantas]

Everyone should take a rape claim seriously, that does not mean that a rape claim should be believed credulously. In such a case, it must be proven in a court of law and unfortunately rape is one of the hardest crimes to prove. It's a shame but it is the best a flawed system can do.

You know what, you have a point. As has Falvlun in the post right after yours.

Rape is indeed hard to tell apart from consensual sex. It helps if indications of violence exist, but not all rape is violent.

It does often end up as a little more challenge between the words of the accuser and accused. It may be pretty arbitrary.

It seems to me that how likely a system is to believe a woman who claims to be raped, and how seriously the evidence is considered, tell quite a bit about how much that society respects women.

 

[Bismillah]

You know what, you have a point. As has Falvlun in the post right after yours.

Falvlun did raise a good point.

Do you think that it is a good thing to threaten woman with jail time for reporting rapes that they cannot prove beyond a shadow of doubt?

Hi Falvlun, can you provide evidence that in the Emirates women are threatened with jail time if they cannot prove that they were raped? I provided multiple links and they included the defendents claiming that it was consensual sex (they were still convicted and sentenced). Otherwise your point is unrelated.

 

[Falvlun]

Hi Falvlun, can you provide evidence that in the Emirates women are threatened with jail time if they cannot prove that they were raped? I provided multiple links and they included the defendents claiming that it was consensual sex (they were still convicted and sentenced). Otherwise your point is unrelated.

This case. The woman claimed she was raped. She could not prove she was raped, so she was thrown in jail for admitting to having sex outside of marriage. If you claim you are raped, and you can get thrown into jail for having sex if it can't be proven that it wasn't rape, then that's threatening jail time for reporting rape.