That Whole Homosexual--Sin Thing

[Zita]

When indoctrination governs belief instead of Bible truth, it sets up roadblocks to reevaluation of our concepts. When we want to believe something, we will hang onto it in spite of evidence to the contrary.



As one who was raised with Christendom's doctrines, I find that rather amusing. I was convinced that humans were endowed with an immortal soul too, and when I first came into contact with JW's that concept was the hardest to accept, but the easiest to dismiss just by reading the Bible. Learning about what the ancient Jews believed about death, and reading about Jesus raising Lazarus, I realised that the dead are "sleeping"....in a state of complete inactivity. Where was Lazarus before Jesus resurrected him? (John 11:11-14) If he was in heaven, then Jesus did him no favours by bringing him back to this life, only to die again. But by resurrecting him, Jesus changed his whole destiny. Do you know how?



Since I have no belief in all Christians going to heaven, it is very apparent from reading the Bible that a relatively small group of faithful ones will join Jesus as Kings and Priests in heaven (Revelation 20:6) but the majority of humankind will live forever on the earth, just as God originally intended.

When Daniel speaks about the resurrection, he too is talking about an earthly resurrection. Since both the "righteous and the unrighteousness" have been "sleeping", both willl be brought back to human life under the rulership of God's Kingdom here on earth, some will be already be faithful ones, but the unrighteous will be under a period of judgment in order to prove to God that they can qualify for permanent residency. If they fail to bring their lives into harmony with God's requirements, then the everlasting contempt will be expressed when God consigns them to eternal death.



Everlasting death IS everlasting punishment....who said it was spent in consciousness? A person has to be alive and conscious to suffer.....but according to Solomon, "the dead are conscious of nothing".....they don't think, feel or plan anything. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10) The ancient Jews did not believe in an afterlife. Resurrection meant being called from your grave which is why you will see Jewish cemeteries with such ornate tombs.
Having one's body thrown into Gehenna, meant not having a burial tomb from which to be resurrected. It was a symbol of eternal death.....not worthy of life at all. Jesus sentenced the Pharisees to Gehenna.



Does a person need to be alive and conscious to experience torment? Are the dead alive? Not according to the OT. (Psalm 146:4; Psalm 115:17) Jesus was Jewish, so he had no belief in an immortal soul. It was adopted from Platonic Greek ideas. It is found in nearly all false worship....but not in ancient Judaism, so it was not believed by the first Christians, who were all Jewish and who wrote the Christian scriptures.

What exactly is "the smoke of their torment" that ascends forever?
The word in Greek for "tormenter" had reference to a jailer who tormented his charges in the dungeons. To suggest that a loving God would keep souls alive in some kind of fiery dungeon to torment them forever is to do him a grave injustice. Satan would do something like that....not God. It is totally contrary to his nature....and totally contrary to his justice. Not something he would ever contemplate. (Jeremiah 7:31)

When fire is used to symbolise complete destruction, we can imagine the aftermath of a wildfire that has decimated a wide area and destroyed many homes.....the smoke ascending from the ashes is a reminder of what happened. It is not the torment that lasts forever but the smoke or memory of it.

I believe that the whole concept of "hellfire" is satanically inspired. It engenders fear, not love.

I don't even believe in the bible and yet I knew that "hellfire" is not satanically inspired it is biblical scripture,and also scriptures saying people will be thrown into a fiery hell to be tormented for all eternity. whew; what a Loving thought from the word of God! still think it's satanically inspired?
Matt 5:22
But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Fool!' will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, 'You moron!' will be subject to hellfire.
Matt 18:9
And if your eye causes your downfall, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, rather than to have two eyes and be thrown into hellfire!

Matthew 13:40-43 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
Matthew 5:22
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Isaiah 66:16
For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.

 

[columbus]

Well it sounds like the Philippines is almost there in terms of equal rights and civil freedom! If only you allowed gay marriage, divorce, sex changes, abortions and porn...

The Philippines is among the top destinations for pedophiles on sex tourism.
Because the phillipinoes don't take very good care of their children. The legal age of consent is like, 6 or something. Parents regularly rent out their kids.
Don't ask me how I know this.
Tom

 

[Zita]

The Bible doesn't say there's anything wrong with being homosexual.

oh really? If the bible doesn't say there's anything wrong with being homosexual then what's this scripture from the bible all about? Wow,somethings never cease to amaze me!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.

 

[MJFlores]

Well it sounds like the Philippines is almost there in terms of equal rights and civil freedom! If only you allowed gay marriage, divorce, sex changes, abortions and porn...

I believe the Philippines is very conservative and holds traditional values dear.

Gay marriage is something complicated because there will be revisions on related laws like the Family Code. Philippine law gives the advantage to women.

Republic Act 9262: Anti-Violence Against Women and Their Children Act of 2004
"THE ANTI-VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND THEIR CHILDREN ACT OF 2004"
https://pcw.gov.ph/law/republic-act-9262

The law protects women against the abuses of their husbands, live in partners, boyfriends or suitors.
What happens when both are women? How does the law now operate under a complex set up?

Further there is no clamor for gay marriage among Filipinos.
Only 2 in 10 Filipinos favor same-sex marriage
Only 2 in 10 Filipinos favor same-sex marriage – SWS

On divorce 53% of Filipinos agree on this one.
53% of Filipinos agree to legalize divorce
53% of Filipinos agree to legalize divorce – SWS

Sex change? Filipinos go to Thailand to undergo gender reassignment. There are no restrictions as long our Filipino doctors do not engage any gender reassignment. Filipino doctors could perform cosmetic surgeries but are hands off on gender reassignment.

A famous Filipina celebrity was formerly a woman and under went gender reassignment is Charice Pempengco
Jake Zyrus - Wikipedia

I think she was better off before - she had more fans and more success here and abroad until the transformation.

Abortions and Pornography are criminalized in the Philippines. We go after baby killers, mothers who kill their babies. The police are also involved in the apprehension of people engaging in child pornography, pedophiles and there is a regulatory body reviewing Philippine and foreign movies, TV programs. These things are crimes and punishable with stiff fines and long time in prison. And Philippine prisons are among the worst places to be on the planet.

In Philippine prisons, they practice that whole homosexual sin thing, daily.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Dude. Get put of your box. Was God an argument from ignorance 3500 years ago? That is reality. Get out of your safety box and realise those people in their time were just as much on top of their game and as smart as we are in our time.

Argument from ignorance simply means that for lack of evidence to the contrary, whatever is believed must be true. That would apply to people now or thousands of years ago. It says nothing about their cognitive ability or intelligence. Intelligent people make arguments like that all the time and have in the past.

 

[MJFlores]

The Philippines is among the top destinations for pedophiles on sex tourism.
Because the phillipinoes don't take very good care of their children. The legal age of consent is like, 6 or something. Parents regularly rent out their kids.
Don't ask me how I know this.
Tom

I'm sure you are not involved in any way, so I would not ask you how you know that.

The phillipinoes don't take very good care of their children. - that is true.
Because generally Filipinos take good care of their children, who are phillipinoes by the way?

I believe, sex tourism abound in this evil world.
It is happening in the Philippines and you can also get a $100 hooker in the streets of the US of A.
Child sex tourism - Wikipedia

Child porno and pornography is really a problem and this problem is exacerbated by foreign tourist.
American arrested for child pornography in Pampanga,
Pampanga is a province in the Philippines.
American arrested for child pornography in Pampanga

MANILA, Philippines — The Philippines is among the Top 10 countries producing pornographic materials on children and distributing these to western countries, the Philippine National Police said Friday.

Although the PNP did not identify the other countries on the list, it said those in Asia, particularly Cambodia and Thailand, were among the largest producers of “child abuse materials,” which includes pornographic videos, photos and online materials of children performing sexual acts.

Read more: https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/56524...ducers-of-child-pornography-pnp#ixzz5oKFloKcm

But then again, these people are apprehended, charged and locked up in jail for a considerable time.
In jail - they perform that whole homosexual sin thing. It is hell on earth, actually.

3,800 Inmates Crammed Into a Philippine Jail Built for 800

 

[Skwim]

oh really? If the bible doesn't say there's anything wrong with being homosexual then what's this scripture from the bible all about? Wow,somethings never cease to amaze me!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.

Kangaroo Feathers seems to be occupied elsewhere right now, so let me explain what I think he's talking about.

Being a homosexual

ho·mo·sex·u·al
/ˌhōməˈsekSH(o͞o)əl/
adjective
adjective: homosexual

1. 1.(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.
   • involving or characterized by sexual attraction between people of the same sex.
     "homosexual desire"

noun
noun: homosexual; plural noun: homosexuals
1.a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

​

Is not the same as homosexual behavior, which the Bible speaks about.

Homosexual behavior is sexual contact between two people or animals of the same sex, i.e., two males or between two females. Homosexual behavior can vary from non-consequential, incidental acts to full-fledged homosexual acts.
Source: Conservapedia

​

The Bible doesn't censure anyone for being attracted to someone of the same sex, but does come down hard on any sexual expression of it.
You may look, just don't touch.

.

 

[Deeje]

I don't even believe in the bible and yet I knew that "hellfire" is not satanically inspired it is biblical scripture,and also scriptures saying people will be thrown into a fiery hell to be tormented for all eternity. whew; what a Loving thought from the word of God! still think it's satanically inspired?
Matt 5:22
But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Fool!' will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, 'You moron!' will be subject to hellfire.
Matt 18:9
And if your eye causes your downfall, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, rather than to have two eyes and be thrown into hellfire!

Matthew 13:40-43 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
Matthew 5:22
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Isaiah 66:16
For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.

There is no hellfire in the Bible. Those scriptures mistranslate "gehenna" as hellfire and try to paint a picture of a vindictive and cruel god who has nothing better to do that listen to the screams of souls in eternal agony....seriously, how is that describing a God of Love?

The only choice given to humankind right from the beginning was life or death.....there was never heaven or hell in the first place. Show me hell in Genesis....show me hell in the OT....? Jesus was Jewish and he did not teach about heaven or hell as opposite destinations. Its amazing how many people have been taught to think so. Such teachings only inspire fear....not love.

 

[Deeje]

Thanks for your views but I'll stick with what I previously presented.

Your choice.....but please be aware that where Christ and his Father are concerned, the opinion of the majority was always wrong. There is a reason why "few" are on the road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14)

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

oh really? If the bible doesn't say there's anything wrong with being homosexual then what's this scripture from the bible all about? Wow,somethings never cease to amaze me!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.

Practicing homosexuality =/= "being homosexual".

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Kangaroo Feathers seems to be occupied elsewhere right now, so let me explain what I think he's talking about.

Being a homosexual

ho·mo·sex·u·al
/ˌhōməˈsekSH(o͞o)əl/
adjective
adjective: homosexual

1. 1.(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.
   • involving or characterized by sexual attraction between people of the same sex.
     "homosexual desire"

noun
noun: homosexual; plural noun: homosexuals
1.a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

​

Is not the same as homosexual behavior, which the Bible speaks about.

Homosexual behavior is sexual contact between two people or animals of the same sex, i.e., two males or between two females. Homosexual behavior can vary from non-consequential, incidental acts to full-fledged homosexual acts.
Source: Conservapedia

​

The Bible doesn't censure anyone for being attracted to someone of the same sex, but does come down hard on any sexual expression of it.
You may look, just don't touch.

.

Thank you.

 

[MJFlores]

The Bible doesn't censure anyone for being attracted to someone of the same sex, but does come down hard on any sexual expression of it.
You may look, just don't touch.

Numbers 15:39 New International Version (NIV)
You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes.

1 John 2:16 New International Version (NIV)
For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.


You may say that the Bible did not say this, but it was
Then you may say the Bible said this, then it wasn't
You really don't know the Bible, Skwim
I think you should give up the whole thing, if you are tired of trying
But I won't stop you. I would cheer for you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Numbers 15:39 New International Version (NIV)
You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes.

1 John 2:16 New International Version (NIV)
For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.


You may say that the Bible did not say this, but it was
Then you may say the Bible said this, then it wasn't
You really don't know the Bible, Skwim
I think you should give up the whole thing, if you are tired of trying
But I won't stop you. I would cheer for you.

Do you realize that you just claimed that your version of God is not omnipotent?

 

[Spartan]

Kangaroo Feathers seems to be occupied elsewhere right now, so let me explain what I think he's talking about.

Being a homosexual

ho·mo·sex·u·al
/ˌhōməˈsekSH(o͞o)əl/
adjective
adjective: homosexual

1. 1.(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.
   • involving or characterized by sexual attraction between people of the same sex.
     "homosexual desire"

noun
noun: homosexual; plural noun: homosexuals
1.a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

​

Is not the same as homosexual behavior, which the Bible speaks about.

Homosexual behavior is sexual contact between two people or animals of the same sex, i.e., two males or between two females. Homosexual behavior can vary from non-consequential, incidental acts to full-fledged homosexual acts.
Source: Conservapedia

​

The Bible doesn't censure anyone for being attracted to someone of the same sex, but does come down hard on any sexual expression of it.
You may look, just don't touch.

.

There's a principle in Matthew 5:28 ("But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart") that also applies to unmarried straights and gays who would lust in their hearts for another person. So if gays even lust in their hearts fantacizing about sex with a same sex individual, then they have already committed sexual immorality. And straight people the same thing if they fantacize / lust after someone who they are not married to. The same thing about murder. If, in your heart, you have fantacized about murdering someone you hate, then you've committed that sin. That's the principle in Matthew 5:28 because it's in the heart where sin is born: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander" Matthew 5:19).

 

[Zita]

Practicing homosexuality =/= "being homosexual".

well you know what if that is the way you want to believe you go right ahead,I would expect this out of a religious person.Every homosexual I know practices homosexuality!! Do you think they just bump gums?

 

[Zita]

There's a principle in Matthew 5:28 ("But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart") that also applies to unmarried straights and gays who would lust in their hearts for another person. So if gays even lust in their hearts fantacizing about sex with a same sex individual, then they have already committed sexual immorality. And straight people the same thing if they fantacize / lust after someone who they are not married to. The same thing about murder. If, in your heart, you have fantacized about murdering someone you hate, then you've committed that sin. That's the principle in Matthew 5:28 because it's in the heart where sin is born: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander" Matthew 5:19).

Thank you.

like I said every homosexual I know (and I know quite a few) has s-e-x with other homosexuals therefore they are practicing homosexuality and your bible says that they will not inherit the kingdom of God, and yes I get other sins were mentioned but this post is not about the other sins it's about homosexuality.

 

[Zita]

There's a principle in Matthew 5:28 ("But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart") that also applies to unmarried straights and gays who would lust in their hearts for another person. So if gays even lust in their hearts fantacizing about sex with a same sex individual, then they have already committed sexual immorality. And straight people the same thing if they fantacize / lust after someone who they are not married to. The same thing about murder. If, in your heart, you have fantacized about murdering someone you hate, then you've committed that sin. That's the principle in Matthew 5:28 because it's in the heart where sin is born: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander" Matthew 5:19).

Ok......... I've read and understand what you have stated,but the post is about homosexuality and sin, and your explanation is nice but it doesn/t change the fact that the bible you believe in says homosexuality will keep you out of the kingdom of God.

 

[Skwim]

There's a principle in Matthew 5:28 ("But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart") that also applies to unmarried straights and gays who would lust in their hearts for another person.

And you know this to be true because it's simply convenient to. Nice how Christians resort to interpolation when it helps their case, but never touch it when it doesn't. Honest to god, sometimes Christian apologetics is so transparently puerile it's comic.

In any case, the Bible says nothing to imply that being homosexual: being "sexually attracted to people of one's own sex," must amount to lust. You do understand the difference between attraction and lust, do you not? . . . . . . Hmm . . . Maybe you don't.

.

 

[Prestor John]

In a post in another thread it was mentioned that god considers gay sex a sin. Nothing new. Everyone knows it, but it got me wondering why. What is so wrong about an act, which only brings pleasure and hurts no one, that god considers it a sin? So much so, in fact, that if one engages in homosexual sex god will bar such an unrepentant or ignorant sinner from Heaven.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (ESV)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
​

While, as I understand it, it's no sin to have a homosexual attachment to someone, as long as it isn't lustful I guess, it does imply that once pee pees touch or hoo-has meet it's all over. Think of it. Let the sexual organs of two homosexuals get as close as possible while still leaving breathing space between them and you're home free. BUT let the two touch for just a fraction of a second and god will have picked up on it and punched your ticket to hell.

I know the Bible doesn't explain why god detests homosexual sex in particular---although "denial" does come to mind---but shouldn't there be an obvious reason for it? Or does it all come down to invoking the old "God Works In Mysterious Ways" rationalization?


In any case, let's hear it people! The Reason God Detests Homosexual Sex Is BECAUSE:____________________________________________ .
(And "because It's icky" is not an acceptable answer.)

.

The Reason God Detests [Homosexuality] (not just the act of gay sex) is BECAUSE : It frustrates/stagnates/halts the eternal progression of His children.

 

[Skwim]

The Reason God Detests [Homosexuality] (not just the act of gay sex) is BECAUSE : It frustrates/stagnates/halts the eternal progression of His children.

Unlike all the miscarriages he lets get by. And in case you're not aware, the eternal progression of His children is doing quite well, thank you.

.​

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