illykitty
RF's pet cat
Yes, because blind patriotism has always gotten such great results! Don't think or question, obey. Sounds like a formula for a great society full of intellect, equality and advancements...
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The 50th Article Has Been Triggered
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
Yes, because blind patriotism has always gotten such great results! Don't think or question, obey. Sounds like a formula for a great society full of intellect, equality and advancements...
Who said it would be blind patriotism? There's nothing wrong with being proud of and wanting to support your nation.
illykitty
RF's pet cat
The problem here is that the way I understood Notanumber, is that he equated voicing fears and discontentment with not being patriotic and being "remoaners". So shutting up and obeying is the "patriotic" thing to do? We're not in a bloody dictatorship! Even if you disagree with someone, you should support their liberty to use their voice. There's a LOT of pragmatic reasons to be scared of this decision, from the various economic repercussions all the way to people being scared of being kicked out because they are originally from EU countries. Why the hell would anyone want people to just smile and not say anything?
I'm not "butthurt" over "losing", I don't care about that at all. I'm SCARED of what this means for the future. Why should ANYONE shut up about this?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Well that's not very nice. What's Ruth Davidson ever done to you?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
The UK isn't worth shedding a tear over, let alone blood or sweat.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Literally every Brexiteer who demands that Remain voters stop protesting or even voicing dissent online like this - and start unconditionally supporting a decision they firmly believe is a colossal mistake. One that's being managed by Theresa May and her cavalcade of ****ups.
No there isn't, but there is something very wrong with vociferously silencing people who don't by alluding that they're at best unpatriotic, at worst traitorous (the Daily Mail's headline on the judges who ensured the Government actually respected parliamentary sovereignty and that Telegraph headline calling for Nicola Sturgeon to be beheaded for daring to not go along with Brexit) . Remember the late Jo Cox MP? That's why she was murdered - her killer viewed Cox as a traitor for being pro-EU. There's also something wrong with bullying people into silence simply because they disagree with you.
Apparently pointing out that the Brexit secretary hasn't been doing his job is 'moaning'; apparently pointing out that the Tories, who lambasted the Yes campaign for having no Plan B for the currency issue, don't even have a ****ing Plan A for Brexit is 'whining'. Airing legitimate criticisms (like the fact that 16 & 17 year olds as well as EU nationals - people who will be affected by this ****storm of a process more than most - being denied a vote is ludicrously undemocratic) and views is now 'Remoaning'. Brexiteers who behave like this are acting childishly & pathetically.
Um. I never said I support any of that lol. Chill m9.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I know you didn't - I was answering your questions, not accusing you of anything.
Notanumber
A Free Man
A lunatic killed the late Jo Cox and her killing did the Brexit champagne no favours. As sad as it was, this was the sort of incident that could and probably did affect the vote.
When I heard about it, my second thought was that the remainers would now get the sympathy vote.
When I heard about it, my second thought was that the remainers would now get the sympathy vote.
Altfish
Veteran Member
I was being patriotic when I voted REMAIN; I always want the best for the UK
Notanumber
A Free Man
I wish the hard-line Remoaners could say the same.
I have no issue about anyone that voted remain, but they should accept the result for the good of the country.
Altfish
Veteran Member
I accept the result - a massive 52-48% landslide; but what I don't accept is the terms we are going to leave on. None of this was spelt out before the vote.
All we heard was how much we would save to be spent on the NHS; immigration would be controlled and 'look out Turkey is joining the EU'.
Now it appears that none of this will happen, so, remind me, why are we leaving?
Notanumber
A Free Man
If you do not like the referendum and its implications blame David Cameron, if you can find him.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Clearly you do if you keep calling us Remoaners.
What if these two are contradictory? Brexiteers like you tend to call us 'Remoaners' or 'unpatriotic' for pointing this out.
Notanumber
A Free Man
If our politicians believed that Brexit would destroy the country, why on earth did they vote overwhelmingly for the EU referendum?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Cameron called it primarily to silence the Eurosceptic element of the Conservative Party as well as floating Conservative voters who might have switched to UKIP. The referendum was a win-win for him; a majority returns Remain and the Eurosceptic Tories are essentially robbed of any political threat and calm is restored. If Leave won then the Tories can continue their systematic attack on our rights (that started under the Tory-led coalition) by withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights after Brexit is concluded without the threat of being checked or stopped by Brussels or the ECJ.
I get the feeling that's why the Tories are making the Brexit deal as acrimonious as possible - to stir up public sentiment against the EU to such an extent that people will gladly see the
Notanumber
A Free Man
Cameron was a Remainer but to be fair he has not been much of a Remoaner.
I called him and Osborne reckless at the time. If it was a win-win for him, why did he pack his bags as soon as the result was announced?
It was NOT just the Tories that voted for the EU referendum.
EU laws are being incorporated into UK law for the time being and I have not heard about any that have been amended or thrown out.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Only because he's had the luxury of being able to **** off somewhere else. Most of us aren't so privileged or lucky.
I can only guess. Maybe he felt like passing the gauntlet onto someone else? He probably figured the premiership was a poisoned chalice with Brexit to deal with. If I were Cameron I'd get off before things got worse and the Tories got blamed for whatever's going to go wrong.
But if it wasn't for them, their infighting and their illegal Parliamentary majority we more than likely wouldn't even have had a referendum to begin with.
No they aren't - the Great Repeal Bill has to be passed into law first before May can do that. Even then her unilateral actions will be subject to scrutiny by the courts.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
This entire thread is a catastrophe. We have vacuous statements from Leave supporters, which closely echo the sort of uninformative nonsense we received from Vote Leave Ltd. during the referendum. But we have equally snobbish, strawmanned, false equivalency from Remain supporters.
It's ironic, considering how incredibly stupid that statement is.
Membership of the EU undermines Parliamentary authority, as legislative approval is exercised by the Member State executives--bypassing Parliamentary scrutiny and placing legislation beyond it's reach. With the advent of international quasi-legislation or, in legal speak, soft law, even the European Parliament is bypassed from the accountability process: therefore, what is the point in having the EP as an unnecessary middleman?. Additionally, the EU assumes exclusive rights of representation on global bodies and has full control over the votes cast. Upon Brexit, the UK will be able to cast its own vote with respect to it's own interests--this means we do not have to be lumped into the "common position" with other EU member states.
Let's take the three sisters: Codex, OIE and the IPPC, under the aegis of the FAO. The EU adopts the standards thundered out by these organisations, through which Member States are obliged to adopt.
This is also going to include the WTO Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade and the parallel Agreement on the Application of Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures.
WTO | Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures - text of the agreement
(WTO | legal texts - Marrakesh Agreement)
Post-Brexit, Parliament will be able to take full accountability as to which soft law applies: of course, whether or not we actually end up with fewer, the same or more legislation is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
The irony of these two sentences.
This is what I meant by false equivalency. You're setting up the bus as if it represents what's actually going to come of Brexit. Even I know neither of those are true, and I was the first in line to vote leave.
It's ironic, considering how incredibly stupid that statement is.
Membership of the EU undermines Parliamentary authority, as legislative approval is exercised by the Member State executives--bypassing Parliamentary scrutiny and placing legislation beyond it's reach. With the advent of international quasi-legislation or, in legal speak, soft law, even the European Parliament is bypassed from the accountability process: therefore, what is the point in having the EP as an unnecessary middleman?. Additionally, the EU assumes exclusive rights of representation on global bodies and has full control over the votes cast. Upon Brexit, the UK will be able to cast its own vote with respect to it's own interests--this means we do not have to be lumped into the "common position" with other EU member states.
Let's take the three sisters: Codex, OIE and the IPPC, under the aegis of the FAO. The EU adopts the standards thundered out by these organisations, through which Member States are obliged to adopt.
This is also going to include the WTO Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade and the parallel Agreement on the Application of Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures.
WTO | Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures - text of the agreement
(WTO | legal texts - Marrakesh Agreement)
Post-Brexit, Parliament will be able to take full accountability as to which soft law applies: of course, whether or not we actually end up with fewer, the same or more legislation is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
The irony of these two sentences.
This is what I meant by false equivalency. You're setting up the bus as if it represents what's actually going to come of Brexit. Even I know neither of those are true, and I was the first in line to vote leave.