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The Absolute Oneness of God

psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Ben Avraham said:
If you cannot accept the truth that the Primal Cause caused the Universe to exist, you must think about all the consequences as a result of expressing your opinion against a theistic view of Creation, especially if he is a Jewish person. Otherwise, you would expose yourself as a fool.
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The truth ?, how arrogant, do you really believe you have the truth and everyone who doesn't believe your truth are in some way in big trouble ?. You don't know what happened before the big band, and whatever caused it, you only have hearsay, what you have read in your scriptures, why can't you just say, I don't know, but my faith is based on what I have read, and leave it at that, that would be much more honest wouldn't it ?.
 
B

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
psychoslice said:
The truth ?, how arrogant, do you really believe you have the truth and everyone who doesn't believe your truth are in some way in big trouble ?. You don't know what happened before the big band, and whatever caused it, you only have hearsay, what you have read in your scriptures, why can't you just say, I don't know, but my faith is based on what I have read, and leave it at that, that would be much more honest wouldn't it ?.
Click to expand...

I feel absolutely in tune with honesty to affirm that the existence of the Universe is an evidence for the existence of
HaShem. As long as you cannot prove the opposite, there is nothing left to discuss about.
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Ben Avraham said:
I feel absolutely in tune with honesty to affirm that the existence of the Universe is an evidence for the existence of
HaShem. As long as you cannot prove the opposite, there is nothing left to discuss about.
Click to expand...
Well I admit I cannot prove it wrong, but you don't admit that you really don't know, you only have faith in what you have been told or conditioned, that is all I am saying, its nothing to get upset about.
 
Windwalker

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Ben Avraham said:
You're right! The Infinity of the Primal Cause has no boundaries or borders but, the things caused to exist do. They are not partakers of Infinity. They had a beginning.
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Yes, they are finite and have boundaries, in themselves as objects. Yet, if God is Infinite, then they cannot by definition exist outside God. If they literally, not metaphorically speaking, exist outside God, then there is somewhere God is not and there is an outside of God space, literally speaking, which means there is a boundary between God and creation, making God finite.

But if you are to say metaphorically speaking that we exist outside God, that would be true as a perspective from the inside of our individualities. To us, from our limited points of view, through our finite filters or lenses we look out through from inside our sacks of skin we call our bodies, it seems or appears that God is separate from us. And that sense of separation of course cannot be literally true, if God is Infinite, but it is perceptively true from our limited experience of ourselves as individuals.

In Reality however, even though each blade of grass is perceived by us as separate from every other blade of grass, or every other object in creation, they are not separate from God.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Ben Avraham said:
The Absolute Oneness of God

Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.
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I believe God is one 'Echad'
but even 'Echad' allows diversity within a unity
The two shall be one 'Echad' flesh (In the case of marriage)
One (echad) clump of grapes brought in from the promised land
and so... One in nature three in persons is fine

I don't believe in an absolute unity in an Islamic sense
of in the yachid sense
Take your son, your only yachid son (in the case of Isaac)

where God exists and there is nothing to love until He makes something
which would make mercy and love second class attributes of God
and power and majesty first class primary attributes
In the Trinity, power love communication glory and majesty are all there from the beginning

Interestingly the Bible says God is one 'echad' and changed by Mamamedies later to have a confession God is yachid But the Torah says echad
 
1

1AOA1

Active Member
psychoslice said:
The truth ?, how arrogant, do you really believe you have the truth and everyone who doesn't believe your truth are in some way in big trouble ?. You don't know what happened before the big band, and whatever caused it, you only have hearsay, what you have read in your scriptures, why can't you just say, I don't know, but my faith is based on what I have read, and leave it at that, that would be much more honest wouldn't it ?.
Click to expand...
The word "know" is always used in reference to a faith.
 
Repox

Repox

Truth Seeker
Ben Avraham said:
The Absolute Oneness of God

Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.
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God is a duality. I don't think humans are able to understand the concept of duality for a living or spiritual being, except for schizophrenic loonies. From some dreams, I have some understand of the two Gods. Both Gods function perfectly together. Heaven is two Gods interacting in a sphere with twelve angels, there is never a dull moment. It is what you might call an eternal party. One God communicates something to an angel, and an angel replies. Then, in the course of exchanges, the other God responds. It goes back and forth forever. Before God created angels, He was His own companion.

There is some empirical evidence for God's duality. Duality is everywhere in nature. There are many examples in nature of duality: two wings on birds, two arms, two legs, two feet, two sides of the brain, two mating pairs, etc. There are many more examples of duality in our material world, just look at electricity (positive and negative charges), chemistry (opposites reacting), and physical laws (gravity and anti-gravity), etc. You cannot deny the importance of duality throughout the universe. Then, of course, we have mathematical formulas (odd and even division of numbers), balanced equations, etc. Examples of duality are too numerous to mention. Why wouldn’t nature reflect its creator?

I should mention the Trinity. It is a human invention having nothing to do with the two Gods. There is no son of God. It must be one of the biggest religious misbeliefs ever! The two Gods were in the world as Jesus. I think references to the father and son derived form Jesus movement leaders not being able to understand references by Jesus to two beings. Nothing has changed, humans still can't accept the idea of God's duality. As for the Holy Spirit part of the Trinity, it was made up. How did they take the Holy Spirit from God? That is a big mystery.
 
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Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Repox said:
God is a duality. I don't think humans are able to understand the concept of duality for a living or spiritual being, except for schizophrenic loonies. From some dreams, I have some understand of the two Gods. Both Gods function perfectly together. Heaven is two Gods interacting in a sphere with twelve angels, there is never a dull moment. It is what you might call an eternal party. One God communicates something to an angel, and an angel replies. Then, in the course of exchanges, the other God responds. It goes back and forth forever. Before God created angels, He was His own companion.

There is some empirical evidence for God's duality. Duality is everywhere in nature. There are many examples in nature of duality: two wings on birds, two arms, two legs, two feet, two sides of the brain, two mating pairs, etc. There are many more examples of duality in our material world, just look at electricity (positive and negative charges), chemistry (opposites reacting), and physical laws (gravity and anti-gravity), etc. You cannot deny the importance of duality throughout the universe. Then, of course, we have mathematical formulas (odd and even division of numbers), balanced equations, etc. Examples of duality are too numerous to mention. Why wouldn’t nature reflect its creator?

I should mention the Trinity. It is a human invention having nothing to do with the two Gods. There is no son of God. It must be one of the biggest religious misbeliefs ever! The two Gods were in the world as Jesus. I think references to the father and son derived form Jesus movement leaders not being able to understand references by Jesus to two beings. Nothing has changed, humans still can't accept the idea of God's duality. As for the Holy Spirit part of the Trinity, it was made up. How did they take the Holy Spirit from God? That is a big mystery.
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Absolutely not! God is not a duality but of an absolute Oneness and the reasons why are in the thread which it seems to me, you did not read it. Angels are emanations that become communicable only during the dream and visions of the Prophets. Every thing you have said above in the first paragraph is possible only in the Olympian realm of Greek Mythology. Duality can be everywhere in the nature of man or of the world but not in the Primal Cause aka HaShem. You cannot change the nature of God to satisfy your Christian preconceived notions. If there was no son of God, we would have to burn the Tanach that says "Israel is My Son", said the Lord. (Exodus 4:22,23) If you read Mark 12:29, in an answer to a Scribe who asked Jesus about the greatest of the commandments, he answer with the "Shema" in Deuteronomy 6:4 that HaShem is absolutely One and the Only Lord. You are trying to contradict Jesus himself.
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
The so called absolute oneness isn't god, god is only a concept, even oneness is just a concept, as it is said, "the Tao cannot be named", whatever name we put to this oneness, that isn't what it is, so we may as well give into it.
 
B

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
whirlingmerc said:
I believe God is one 'Echad' but even 'Echad' allows diversity within a unity The two shall be one 'Echad' flesh (In the case of marriage) One (echad) clump of grapes brought in from the promised land and so... One in nature three in persons is fine I don't believe in an absolute unity in an Islamic sense of in the yachid sense Take your son, your only yachid son (in the case of Isaac) where God exists and there is nothing to love until He makes something which would make mercy and love second class attributes of God and power and majesty first class primary attributes In the Trinity, power love communication glory and majesty are all there from the beginning Interestingly the Bible says God is one 'echad' and changed by Mamamedies later to have a confession God is yachid But the Torah says echad
Click to expand...

God is not one Echad but of an absolute Oneness. You are comparing God with man and this is a no no if you read Isaiah 46:5. The reference to Isaac as the son yachid of Abraham was only a reference to Exodus 4:22,23 where God said "Israel is My Son." The Tanach does not say, "God is one echad but God is One and the only One. Echad veYahid.
 
B

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
psychoslice said:
The so called absolute oneness isn't god, god is only a concept, even oneness is just a concept, as it is said, "the Tao cannot be named", whatever name we put to this oneness, that isn't what it is, so we may as well give into it.
Click to expand...

You only show me that you have never open the Tanach to read a single page of it. Sorry, I have only one Bible.
 
B

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
psychoslice said:
The so called absolute oneness isn't god, god is only a concept, even oneness is just a concept, as it is said, "the Tao cannot be named", whatever name we put to this oneness, that isn't what it is, so we may as well give into it.
Click to expand...

A concept could not have caused the Universe to exist. If you don't believe it, why don't you tell me yourself how did the Universe come to exist as such?
 
SpiritQuest

SpiritQuest

The Immortal Man
God is the Universe - the Totality of Existence. Like an infinite ocean where we are like ripples on the surface of that infinite sea. God is the All in All.
 
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