Photonic
Ad astra!
Heathen Hammer I believe is an Odinist? I wouldn't want to be on the end of HIS destruction ritual, which usually involves an axe, beer, and a lot of shouting.
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The assumption of evolution can cause problems
- Thread starter Man of Faith
- Start date
Heathen Hammer I believe is an Odinist? I wouldn't want to be on the end of HIS destruction ritual, which usually involves an axe, beer, and a lot of shouting.
I find this post rather ironic considering the thread you started, that stated atheism, theism, iders and creationists are un-scientific. But the answer to your question of "why can't there be a real entity that is invested in mankind and guided the natural laws of the universe etc..." Is because there isn't any evidence for that. So, belief in that type of process is not justified. And believing that an intelligence is responsible is "un-scientific" as you would say.
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
Not conciousness, but sub-conciouseness/unconscious computing of reality. Computers unconciously compute data all the time. But to answer your question, no.
I know it's unscientific, did i ever say that it was? i only said that it was, in my view responsible for for science being consistant
I wish I never opened my mouth on the subject, I kinda was rambling on about another subject tbh.
outhouse
Atheistically
you cant prove he exist let alone is the source for anything
it has done no such thing
non existant
Duh
so far there is nothing in the universe that can be attributed to your deity, nothing at all. it has never written a word anywhere. must be illiterate.
there is none
and why should not this happen???
evolution is not a belief, it is observed facts backed with mountains of evidence not in dispute.
To not believe in evolution you have to be a hypocrite and there is no way around that. As a creationist you have to pick and choose what science you personally accept from a viewpoint of complete ignorance.
creation is outlwed from public schools, while evolution is taught in every major university arould the world as higher learning.
without what we know from evolution you would probably be dead now and can thank the CDC from letting a pandemic wipe us all out.
Ok, well, the scientific explanation for diversity of life(evolution) is scientific, so why postulate something non-scientific to the equation. Do we gain any extra insight into evolution by doing so?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Plus, even a computer requires a physical tangible presence.... It still doesn't support a non-physical conscious entity.
wa:do
wa:do
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
I never denied evolution. far from it, I just think that evolution is another law that 'god' made. It seems a simpler explanation to me that something made the laws then it is that it came out of nothing, which would violate several conservation laws. I guess we could of come from those universes, but eventually you have to find the origin of everything. I won't get into my meta-physics on it, but basically when you go back far enough all that there ever was was a single consciousness that used itself up to create all that we see today. I can't see any other way to explain how reality without it coming out of nothing.
Perhaps that isn't a place science should go though, but it's a place that I hope one day we can go.
god does have a physical reality in my system, he is the Universe, literally. cue explaining pantheism.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
LoL... you don't have to explain pantheism to me. 
I was more referencing those that claim that God is a non-physical omnibeing.
wa:do
I was more referencing those that claim that God is a non-physical omnibeing.
wa:do
shawn001
Well-Known Member
"I never denied evolution. far from it, I just think that evolution is another law that 'god' made"
Evolution abides by the laws of nature, but that of course doesn't have evidence it was "'god' made" one way or the other.
"It seems a simpler explanation to me that something made the laws then it is that it came out of nothing, which would violate several conservation laws."
It can without violating any laws of nature. I used to ponder and still somewhat do on a bigger scale pantheism, but the below video creates a problem with it somewhat.
[youtube]WQhd05ZVYWg[/youtube]
Curiosity with Stephen Hawking, Did God Create the Universe? - YouTube
I'm trying to figure this one out. Are you:
1) Trying to use some form of Pascal's Wager? It seems like it seeing that you talk about ending up on the end of a destruction ritual and then to see....
2) Or are you 'threatening' to provide verifiable, empirical evidence for the Supernatural?
If it is case number 1, you should be familiar with just how bad that "argument" is. Just look it up on Wiki to see why.
If it is case number 2, I would love to see any verifiable, empirical evidence for the existence of the Supernatural . I've asked it a lot of times: all I get are anecdotes from people who really, really believe and unverified "research" by people who just really, really believe. That's it.
Nobody's ever provided any empirical, verifiable evidence for the existence of the Supernatural.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Don't you think threatening a "destruction ritual" on someone is just a bit juvenile? :sarcastic
wa:do
wa:do
Not at all no young acolyte knows this ritual onlt the elders. How dare you insult the elders. Lol
No, the Bible tells us God created the universe and the earth, and what fills them.
"How many your works are, O Jehovah! All of them in wisdom you have made. The earth is full of your productions." (Psalm 104:24)
The Scriptures invite us to "Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing. (Isaiah 40:26)
This statement is in harmony with scientific evidence that energy can be converted to matter and matter to energy. "Matter is simply one form of energy" (scientific american)
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
I find it funny that creationists deny evolution when it's right in front of our faces constantly with bacteria and viruses.
I think he once suggested that god 'died' more or less to create the Universe. What I meant by it would violate conservation laws... is if it came out of literally nothing. Mass, like energy, can't be created or destroyed. So how could nothingness spontaniously generate mass and energy? I think on the quantum scale such things can happen, but it "borrows" energy then pays it back with particles coming in and out of existence, but even then if one particle or it's anti pair escapes, that energy is taken from somewhere, say the mass of a blackhole (hawking radiation). So the law isn't violated even there.
Can't watch the video atm though, in public atm wifi spot and no headphones.
I do not think that we have a working theory on the cause of 'creation', for a lack of a better word. We got the Big Bang, but that is just what happened immediately after creation, not the actual cause. String Theory has some fancy explanations though, not that we can test them. Things like branes smashing into each other to make our "slice" of reality/our Universe really present a challenge in how they can, well, be challenged.
I'll say two things.
1) I wasn't really threatening him. Any magican knows that you don't let the target know they are cursed.
Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible (1969)
Book of Lucifer
On the Choice of Human Sacrifice
"One of the greatest of all fallacies about the practice of ritual magic is the notion that one must believe in the powers of magic before one can be harmed or destroyed by them. Nothing could be farther from the truth, as the most receptive victims of curses have always been the greatest scoffers. The reason is frighteningly simple. The uncivilized tribesman is the first to run to his nearest witch-doctor or shaman when he feels a curse has been placed upon him by an enemy...
...Therefore, never attempt to convince the skeptic upon whom you wish to place a curse. Allow him to scoff. To enlighten him would lessen your chance of success. Listen with benign assurance as he laughs at your magic, knowing his days are filled with turmoil all the while. If he is despicable enough, by Satan's grace, he might even die - laughing!"
I was just saying it out anger, and did non-specifically apologize in my next post after that. Obviously if I was to hex him I wouldn't tell him, but he didn't know that lol. You should also note that Anton LaVey was an atheist, he just believed that magic:
Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible (1969), Book of Belial
THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF SATANIC MAGIC
"The definition of magic, as used in this book, is: "The change in situations or events
in accordance with one's will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be
unchangable." This admittedly leaves a large area for personal interpretation. It will be said, by some, that these instructions and procedures are nothing more than applied psychology, or scientific fact, called by "magical" terminology - until they arrive at a passage in the text that is "based on no known scientific finding". It is for this reason that no attempt has been made to limit the explanations set forth to a set nomenclature. Magic is never totally scientifically explainable, but science has always been, at one time or another, considered magic."
So I do not have any "empirical proof". But I do have situations, that either as a result of the psychological release, or supernatural forces, worked out better because of the ritual. Then again, ritual magic hasn't really been studied in any scientific way. It would be hard to anyway, to watch someone place a curse then record if that person died and then run it across different factors and such in a mass study.
There is also the fact that you are supposed to make it work with nature, so that it's more likely to work. This is part of the view that magic is just a normal part of nature, just like everything else. Most LaVeyan's are materialistic atheists, (some are pantheists), but they all DO believe in at least lesser magic (applied physiology), and many believe in greater magic (the part that can't be explained with current science) as well, even being atheists.
For the above reasons, I was bluffing. The reason I did this is because I knew he wouldn't know, but it was extreme, yes.
Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible (1969)
Book of Leviathan
INVOCATION EMPLOYED TOWARDS THE CONJURATION OF DESTRUCTION
"BEHOLD! The mighty voices of my vengeance smash the stillness of the air and stand
as monoliths of wrath upon a plain of writhing serpents. I am become as a monstrous
machine of annihilation to the festering fragments of the body of he (she) who would
detain me.
It repenteth me not that my summons doth ride upon the blasting winds which multiply the sting of my bitterness; And great black slimy shapes shall rise from brackish pits and vomit forth their pustulence into his (her) puny brain.
I call upon the messengers of doom to slash with grim delight this victim I hath chosen. Silent is that voiceless bird that feeds upon the brain-pulp of him (her) who hath tormented me, and the agony of the is to be shall sustain itself in shrieks of pain, only to serve as signals of warning to those who would resent my being.
Oh come forth in the name of Abaddon and destroy him (her) whose name I giveth as a sign.
Oh great brothers of the night, thou who makest my place of comfort, who rideth out upon the hot winds of Hell, who dwelleth in the devil's fane; Move and appear! Present yourselves to him (her) who sustaineth the rottenness of the mind that moves the gibbering mouth that mocks the just and strong!; rend that gaggling tongue and close his (her) throat, Oh Kali! Pierce his (her) lungs with the stings of scorpions, Oh Sekhmet! Plunge his (her) substance into the dismal void, Oh mighty Dagon!
I thrust aloft the bifid barb of Hell and on its tines resplendently impaled my sacrifice through vengeance rests!
Shemhamforash!
Hail Satan!"
Anyone can find the invocation and steps to Satanic ritual... anyone at all, not just the elders
Yay! More excuses to quote the Satanic Bible!
So what if matter is a form of energy? Eisenstein called it "frozen energy", but that verse has very little to do with that. People knew that matter can be turned to energy in at least some way for thousands of years. Ever burned something and the log turned into fire (energy)? Not that fire is literally energy, but it wouldn't be a foreign concept to ancient people.
Also it only vaguely refers to that from what I can tell. That reference doesn't prove much of anything, other than people can interpret the Bible in many colorful ways that it wasn't intended to be.
I agree that "creationists" have brought the Bible into disrepute by their unfounded claim that God created the earth in 6 24-hour days. The Bible does not teach this absurdity. Still, Sir Isaac Newton was both a believer in creation and a scientist. The two coexisted successfully in Newton. This give the lie to the claim that being a Christian and scientist are not compatible. Many scientists today are both.
johnhanks
Well-Known Member
Newton was a "believer in creation" at a time when no alternative explanation for the origin of life and the earth had been put forward. He was a believer in alchemy too, but that doesn't validate the idea.
Lucky that no-one is making such a claim, then. (Of course, whether being a biblical literalist and a scientist are compatible is a separate issue entirely.)
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Mcshane22
Member
Evolution Is a scientific theory , why do people have a misunderstanding of the definition of a theory. A theory is a hypothesis that has been put through the rigors and scrutiny of the scientific method by experimentation in labs as well as observations of natural processes. This Theory has the ability to predict outcomes such as Darwins prediction of a moth that had special physical attributes to acquire nectar from a specific orchid. Either Darwin has a supernatural knowledge to predict outcomes,or he uses known natural and observable patterns to predict an outcome.
Here is quote that started this discussion of scientists who believe in Creation, in case you missed it.
Draka
Wonder Woman
No scientist worth his college tuition can go into studying anything if he already assumes he knows the answer. Assuming Creation in the study of biology, paleontology, geology, and so on is stupid. Without the proper studies of such fields we would be at a loss for the many things we have learned from them.