The assumptions behind evolution?

[AllanV]

You were not there at creation, so how could you be "shown is true"? The vast majority of both Jewish and Christian theologians see the creation accounts as being allegorical, and that really makes far more sense than using a literalist approach, especially in light of what we now know both of Earth's history and of how my people traditionally have used myth, which does not mean nor imply falsehood, btw.

My mind was opened up to the knowledge of God in a spontaneous experience that was not searched for. I had placed myself in a position where I was receptive.
I am shown the mind of an immortal as a comparison and what can be attained. I know the barriers.

I was shown that God is and rewards those who diligently seek him.

 

[AllanV]

If you have a particular research paper in mind about this then feel free to post it here. I will read it.

Not really sure what that means.

There is a thread through scriptures that says those who are desperate in their spirit will find God. The ultimate goal is to find God in a renewed mind and immortality is possible.
I have done this in my mind and it works but if the life form, the body and mind, is too comfortable there is no change so an induced discomfort needs to be taken on. This may shift the hormone balance because it is unsettling.
Purifying the self is a process and the nature changes to one with no aggression and it is peaceful and poses no threat.

"Not sure what the relevance to the theory of evolution is here."
This is the divide between what the mind clings to and what must be let go.

There is a way of separating the mind from the influence of the cells.
If evolution is true then the next step for man will be a renewal of mind because the old one is bringing destruction.

 

[Ouroboros]

You have a bias against God because you are human.

What a load of BS.

It is impossible to comprehend the knowledge of God in the natural biological mind of man.

Yet you're the one preaching the "correct" knowledge about God. In other words, you think of yourself more than a man.

You have repeated told me that when I was Christian I was of the "wrong" kind, but you, specifically you, right here and now, is the person who knows the "right" way of belief.

You have a self belief that is reflected in your personality and the way you talk to people and is perceived by others in what they think about you. Other people will make an appropriate response to that mostly automatically either in conversation or behind your back.

Right... I'm sure there's a lot of people hating my guts. That's their problem, not mine.

I know that things are not the way they seem generally and I am practical and repair and build most everything. I am a skeptic and can only evaluate other peoples work to a certain level because I am not involved in it. But the areas I work in have shown enough that there are discrepancies and ideas and wrong direction can be shaped from a personality.

In other words, you're trying to be politely rude to me. You're essentially now making allusions to my personality. Great.

If every one is indoctrinated into one belief then that can be a trap. Even corporations fail and there is discussion about disruptive technologies.
Fossils build a story or myth around death that is imbedded in the mind. But the real story is, immortality is possible.

I've looked at fossils. Have you? I had to in class.

The fossils don't build a story or myth at all. There's a lot more to it than you know. That much is obvious.

 

[Ouroboros]

Both are true.

Which makes Nature God.

Which makes Evolution God's process of producing life.

You're the one denying God.

 

[AllanV]

What a load of BS.


Yet you're the one preaching the "correct" knowledge about God. In other words, you think of yourself more than a man.

You have repeated told me that when I was Christian I was of the "wrong" kind, but you, specifically you, right here and now, is the person who knows the "right" way of belief.


Right... I'm sure there's a lot of people hating my guts. That's their problem, not mine.


In other words, you're trying to be politely rude to me. You're essentially now making allusions to my personality. Great.


I've looked at fossils. Have you? I had to in class.

The fossils don't build a story or myth at all. There's a lot more to it than you know. That much is obvious.

I am unable to preach any thing to you it must be experienced.

I've just been on youtube and Christians explanations of God are not true. They read the same scriptures but they are unable to understand what they mean. Who are these people.

This is not a personal attack.
The human mind and thought process is completely predictable. There is something wrong with it because it is set on conflict all the time.

Where is it expected God to be? There is no image and no idol, an opinion is regarded as an idol, and these are not allowed because they become mind sets, fixtures of the mind.
I have the experience and I know the scriptures.
Any object takes up space. The human body takes up space in volume and God is also in that space. Everything that is seen is made to appear. God wears light as with a garment. God is close at hand. God is an observer deeper and a little beyond the mind that is thought from. God knows all thoughts. We have our being and presence in God.

 

[McBell]

Your presenting nothing of interest except as the thread says the assumptions behind evolution.

Seems you need to pay better attention.

I have not presented any evidence at all.
I have merely asked you to support your bold empty claims.
Since you have thus far not been able to present any thing but bold empty claims, I have simply dismissed them as nothing more than wishful thinking on your part.

 

[McBell]

There is a community of scientists who see a design that cannot be ignored.

again, what is your source?

 

[AllanV]

Seems you need to pay better attention.

I have not presented any evidence at all.
I have merely asked you to support your bold empty claims.
Since you have thus far not been able to present any thing but bold empty claims, I have simply dismissed them as nothing more than wishful thinking on your part.

I am sorry. The claims are bold, thank you but they are only empty to those who want some one else to do all the work.

 

[AllanV]

again, what is your source?

We all take up space in a volume and God is there also but we must put that space to useful purpose.

 

[McBell]

I am sorry. The claims are bold, thank you but they are only empty to those who want some one else to do all the work.

So why are you wanting every one else to do the work?
You made the claim.
It is on you to support the claim.

It is not my job to do your homework.

 

[McBell]

We all take up space in a volume and God is there also but we must put that pace to useful purpose.

you did not answer the question.

You do understand that your avoidance can be seen as dishonesty, right?

 

[McBell]

I am unable to preach any thing to you it must be experienced..

yet here you are with your sermons....

Even more evidence of dishonesty

 

[AllanV]

yet here you are with your sermons....

Even more evidence of dishonesty

This is like training a parrot, Polly.

 

[Parsimony]

If evolution is true then the next step for man will be a renewal of mind because the old one is bringing destruction.

That's now how biological evolution works.

 

[Sapiens]

There are many scientists who believe their research shows genetic entropy but of course they will be discredited.

Even considering the ICR I can hardly think of "many."

John Sanford was one I listened to, he is now a christian but what kind I do not know. Listening to him, there is balance and it is good to hear him out.

It is too bad that you know so little science that you are taken in by his snake oil pitch.

Opinions can be formed but it is best to do own experiments and tests to prove something beyond doubt. I am unable to do that but I work in other fields entirely and have found enough anomalies in present information. I am a skeptic that man can get it right when some vested interest wants to shape things their own way for gain.

What "vested interests" and why would they care?

Resistance to a drug implies mutation and adaption what?
If an organism has a need for adaption why would it occur if a signal wasn't being put out within the cell and the creator then facilitating the change from within it.

There's that misunderstanding again. That same mutation has likely occurred many times before, it may even make life slightly more difficult and result in a competitive disadvantage. That is until the drug comes along and the individual(s) with the mutation survive while all other are set back or even killed.

There is a thread through scriptures that says those who are desperate in their spirit will find God. The ultimate goal is to find God in a renewed mind and immortality is possible.
I have done this in my mind and it works but if the life form, the body and mind, is too comfortable there is no change so an induced discomfort needs to be taken on. This may shift the hormone balance because it is unsettling.
Purifying the self is a process and the nature changes to one with no aggression and it is peaceful and poses no threat.

Whatever.

An experiment could be done where an organism was put under a duress and uncomfortable situation and see how quickly it adapted. But the idea would be to expose it to the point of mutation without killing it. Then positive or negative mutation could be determined.

The same mutation can be both. Look up sickle cell anemia.

If a person is positioned to be desperately poor they would understand eugenics without putting that name on it.

Positioned by whom? What are you going on about?

 

[Midnight Rain]

After the realization that God is and where God is, the Bible became one source of reference. There are many scriptures that show what was experienced is written in the books. There are many scriptures that can be seen as simplistic but they are actually statements that refer to something a lot deeper. They have a scientific basis if expanded and predict what is being discovered. Therefore other scriptures could give the correct direction to go.

I am more of a technical person with practical ability and have seen a few misconceptions held by others in in my time and have worked through my own.
It is all very well being and appearing critical but some work on exactly what is going on here on the earth has to continue in my view.

Having an idea and invention is problematic and it interested me where disruptive technologies Disruptive Innovation could change the way things are done very quickly. The horse to the automobile happened in a decade or so.

The correct starting point needs to be worked from or there will be disaster.

A person can not in reality be a theist evolutionist because the Bible predicts, entropy, decay, degeneration, mutation, and these occurred when sin entered. This rests in all creation and in humans it brings deformities, aging and death. This also shows up in man's nature and what occurs in the cells is apparent in the predatory mind. Man has a fascination with death and builds his world system around fear and other emotional response.

The Bible shows that sin needs to be dealt with and Jesus was tested and won, producing a new mind that is acceptable to God. This mind will lead to immortality.

What evidence do you have that the bible is correct btw? You say you take that as your starting point. But how did you arrive at that starting point and for what reason, historical, logical or otherwise should we accept this axiom/

 

[metis]

My mind was opened up to the knowledge of God in a spontaneous experience that was not searched for. I had placed myself in a position where I was receptive.
I am shown the mind of an immortal as a comparison and what can be attained. I know the barriers.

I was shown that God is and rewards those who diligently seek him.

All you have done with the above was to avoid answering what I asked.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I do not think they are that mysterious. The dinosaurs are not as old as their dating suggests. And the layers of sediment were placed down quickly.

There are some scriptures that seem to state a huge creature at the time of Job. It had a tail the size of a cedar and drank rivers.

We also have tales of cyclopes and giants. However those turned out to be false. We currently have tales of bigfoot and the chupacabra. Doesn't make them true.

And yes the dating methods are correct. The chances that several different independently done readings of different methods coming to the same conclusion is verification that it is correct. Do you know the chances of having several different independently done different methods all coming to the same conclusion would be? Near infinite. Without a single one that was done correctly having a different answer. That is just mind boggling. But several creationist like to use the few cases where the sample was contaminated or the test was done incorrectly as some kind of proof it doesn't work but in the face of the actual evidence it rarely convinces anyone who wasn't either ignorant of the evidence or wanting to be convinced otherwise.

 

[AllanV]

What evidence do you have that the bible is correct btw? You say you take that as your starting point. But how did you arrive at that starting point and for what reason, historical, logical or otherwise should we accept this axiom/

At 26 years I was living on some purchased rural bush covered land with my wife and baby son. While working at some woodwork during the day in my workshop a dream from the previous night came to mind. At that moment and over 5 seconds my body became energized to the point breathing was difficult and my knees buckled.

The realization occurred that there is a God and it is immediate and He is like an observer just beyond and a little deeper than the mind that is usually thought from. My own mind was shown the mind of an immortal as a comparison and what could be attained. The immortal mind holds much knowledge and many concepts were shown from it in just 5 seconds.

I composed myself and walked the distance to the dwelling and told my wife what had happened. I thought perhaps this is what Christians believed and it happened that my wife had a small pocket Bible. It was read constantly until it fell apart. We went to a Church but what had been experienced and then read wasn't what was expected it is something different. But the Bible is interesting and is easy and accessible if an over view is taken.

I have a practical background and get on well with most people until the subjects from the immortal mind are talked about. They tend to confront personality and the motivating influences in it. It is difficult to keep it as a science experiment that develops evidence without it appearing and being taken as character assassination. When people open up they are actually very defensive to the point of self destruction. This may explain wars.

My own family have been difficult even though it is never talked about. They have their own belief and live there own lives as people should.

But it is interesting.

 

[Ouroboros]

At 26 years I was living on some purchased rural bush covered land with my wife and baby son. While working at some woodwork during the day in my workshop a dream from the previous night came to mind. At that moment and over 5 seconds my body became energized to the point breathing was difficult and my knees buckled.

The realization occurred that there is a God and it is immediate and He is like an observer just beyond and a little deeper than the mind that is usually thought from. My own mind was shown the mind of an immortal as a comparison and what could be attained. The immortal mind holds much knowledge and many concepts were shown from it in just 5 seconds.

I had a similar experience, but in my case, I found that it meant that God is within us, around us, we are part of God, not separate. And that God and Nature is also one, and the means that this Nature-God uses to produce reality and life is through the world as it is, and that we can understand God's Nature by studying it. And that means that what we've discovered about God's Nature is that God is using Evolution to produce life forms. Nature is the witness and true Bible. Ancient men's opinions are not the truth. They only speak their views. The truth lies beyond and behind the words, not in the literalism. Paul or Jesus talked about how some read the words of the scriptures but didn't understand the spirit behind them, which suggests that literalism is the dead form of faith. Understanding God beyond words is the real faith, not locking in God's power in Nature to what Genesis says. Genesis isn't a scientific report. It's not a historical description. It's an allegory, and should be understood as such. So one of the first assumptions of Evolution theory is that holy scriptures and ancient texts are not science books, but that we as humans can study and understand nature to some degree based on nature itself.

On another note, in Genesis 1, it says that God commanded the seas to produce life. He commanded the sky to produce life. He commanded the land to produce life. So how is this incompatible with nature producing life? If you really want to be a literalist, evolution fits well with that part of Genesis, don't you think?