The Atheist belief is sad indeed.

[Autodidact]

Since there are no scientific methods to test for a God, all atheists are acting on a hunch. Unless they are privy to scientific data they are keeping to themselves. Oh I know they pull the old "cant disprove a negative" spiel, but science is not in the habit of forming premature conclusions about the unknown. So I suppose those who boast that they have science on their side, are the first to abandon it so they can hold to an opinion that massages their fancy.

What we call rational grounds for our beliefs are often extremely irrational attempts to justify our instincts. -Huxley

So you're an agnostic then?

 

[ellenjanuary]

The scientific method rejects gods as a valid scientific theory because they are unfalsifiable. In other words, you have to have real evidence.

That's a stretch. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is not falsifiable, but still valid theory. It is more a case for engineering that a theory be falsifiable.

Besides, "there is no scientific evidence for god" is practally the definition of god.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is not falsifiable, but still valid theory.

The Second Law is indeed falsifiable. Measure the work done to compress a gas in a constant temperature heat bath. Compare the amount of work required to compress the gas when the process is carried out very quickly vs. very slowly. If the latter is larger than the former on average, the 2nd law is falsified.

 

[Jeremiah]

That's a stretch. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is not falsifiable, but still valid theory. It is more a case for engineering that a theory be falsifiable.

Besides, "there is no scientific evidence for god" is practally the definition of god.

"That's a stretch."

Falsifiability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Falsifiability, particularly testability, is an important concept in science and the philosophy of science. The concept was made popular by Karl Popper in his philosophical analysis of the scientific method. Popper concluded that a hypothesis, proposition, or theory is "scientific" only if it is, among other things, falsifiable. That is, falsifiability is a necessary (but not sufficient) criterion for scientific ideas. Popper asserted that unfalsifiable statements are non-scientific

...


Popper uses falsification as a criterion of demarcation to draw a sharp line between those theories that are scientific and those that are unscientific. It is useful to know if a statement or theory is falsifiable, if for no other reason than that it provides us with an understanding of the ways in which one might assess the theory. One might at the least be saved from attempting to falsify a non-falsifiable theory, or come to see an unfalsifiable theory as unsupportable.

Popper claimed that, if a theory is falsifiable, then it is scientific.

 

[ellenjanuary]

The heck with that wiki. I got into a debate with scientists themselves over that term... I say it's a stretch!

 

[ellenjanuary]

The Second Law is indeed falsifiable. Measure the work done to compress a gas in a constant temperature heat bath. Compare the amount of work required to compress the gas when the process is carried out very quickly vs. very slowly. If the latter is larger than the former on average, the 2nd law is falsified.

Gee. Far be it for me to contradict Max Planck... guy who wrote the dang thing.

 

[Jeremiah]

The heck with that wiki. I got into a debate with scientists themselves over that term... I say it's a stretch!

I don't care who you talked to, people make those type of pleas all the time.

Maybe you should try coming up with a real argument against falsifiability, instead of just repeating "it's a stretch".

 

[ellenjanuary]

I don't care who you talked to, people make those type of pleas all the time.

Maybe you should try coming up with a real argument against falsifiability, instead of just repeating "it's a stretch".

I don't have an argument against falsifiability as it is a supremely useful tool. I have an argument against saying god is not theoretical as god is not falsifiable. God is perfectly good theory... maybe not in the strictly scientific sense, but still. There's plently of scientists that don't have a problem with god. Besides, that ain't the point...

What is "athesit belief" if atheism is a lack of belief?

 

[Jeremiah]

I don't have an argument against falsifiability as it is a supremely useful tool. I have an argument against saying god is not theoretical as god is not falsifiable. God is perfectly good theory... maybe not in the strictly scientific sense, but still. There's plently of scientists that don't have a problem with god. Besides, that ain't the point...

What is "athesit belief" if atheism is a lack of belief?

"I don't have an argument against falsifiability"

I know you don't.

"I have an argument against saying god is not theoretical as god is not falsifiable."

That is not what I said, I said a valid scientific theory.

" maybe not in the strictly scientific sense, but still."

That' what I was saying. They are not a valid scientific theory.

Did even read my post?

The scientific method rejects gods as a valid scientific theory because they are unfalsifiable.

"There's plently of scientists that don't have a problem with god. "

Good for them.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Gee. Far be it for me to contradict Max Planck... guy who wrote the dang thing.

LOL well I would be interested to hear what Max Planck said, can you provide a quotation? I am pretty sure what I said is correct.

 

[ellenjanuary]

LOL well I would be interested to hear what Max Planck said, can you provide a quotation? I am pretty sure what I said is correct.

Probably.

I was just running my neck, digging myself into a hole. I don't need an excuse. But, I do have this cool book that is full of essays by scientists; he's in it. If the net ever shows up at my house again, I'll forward the quote of which I was thinking.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Hey ellenjunuary, I didn't think you were digging yourself into a hole, you were just mistaken. Sometimes I find that I am mistaken about certain things, no big deal, far better to just accept it and learn from it. I hope it didn't seem like I was trying to back you into a corner, I was just trying to keep the record straight.

 

[ellenjanuary]

You and that other guy ganged up on me... big meanies.

Of course, if I didn't :foot:, I wouldn't hafta :sad4:.



I got ahead of myself. I may just make god scientific in four years. Then we'll rap.

 

[dogsgod]

OK folks, this is not an attack thread. Some of my favorite RF members are Atheists. Actually, most are. That said, I want to address the Atheist mindset.

Most Atheists I know came from religious families. They could be looked upon as religious pioneers if you will. Not being an Atheist myself, I guess I am wondering about the emotion one would have to experience when you first decide there is no God.

Is it like realizing there is no Santa Claus? I doubt it. When we have that realization we still get gifts and celebrate Christmas.

Are there true Atheists out there, or are some Atheists just closet Christians who want to look trendy and cool but would pray if their plane was crashing?

The Atheists who would not pray in this instance, these are the folks I want to have a dialog with. The true Atheist if you will. What did it feel like when you realized there was no god? As you are aging, how does it feel to believe that when you die, it is all over? Does that make you sad?

Why the need to capitalize the word atheist?

 

[NeverGotBetter]

OK folks, this is not an attack thread. Some of my favorite RF members are Atheists. Actually, most are. That said, I want to address the Atheist mindset.

There are differing views within the "atheist mindset", ranging from agnostic atheist to de-facto atheist to true atheist. All them revolve around the same general idea but each have their differences.

Most Atheists I know came from religious families. They could be looked upon as religious pioneers if you will. Not being an Atheist myself, I guess I am wondering about the emotion one would have to experience when you first decide there is no God.

Many atheists were god-believers at one point or from god-believing families. I didn't capitalize "god" because I don't simply mean the christian god.

Is it like realizing there is no Santa Claus? I doubt it. When we have that realization we still get gifts and celebrate Christmas.

Not a valid comparison because people of differing religions celebrate Christmas and Santa Claus as a cultural tradition despite what their religions may dictate. Religion =/= culture.

Are there true Atheists out there, or are some Atheists just closet Christians who want to look trendy and cool but would pray if their plane was crashing?

There may be people who claim to be atheists but would still jump to a god in the time of a crisis, not necessarily because they adopted atheism by thinking it was cool and trendy. Many younger individuals rebel against god-believing families and resort to atheism whereas others may be a fan of atheists, such as an atheist-filled band so they become atheist as a way to become fans. So your question isn't applicable to all atheists and when it is, their "trendy and cool" reasons may differ.

The Atheists who would not pray in this instance, these are the folks I want to have a dialog with. The true Atheist if you will. What did it feel like when you realized there was no god? As you are aging, how does it feel to believe that when you die, it is all over? Does that make you sad?

I was a former christian and I did not feel the slightest bit of sadness when I became atheistic. In fact, I felt some joy and relief because I was struggling with the christian belief, choosing a side brought me relief. Choosing the atheist side brought me relief because I was always in conflict and struggle with the christian belief, so I no longer had that struggle. I considered the reprocussions, such as being preached to but I figured regardless of which side I take, someone is going to preach or spew information at me, whether it's bible-thumping individuals coming to my door or evolutionary-supporters who for whatever reason viewed creation and evolution as mutually exclusive.

I realized it allowed for me to not sit there, listen to the priest, sing, and do all other acts but rather to explore what I believed in the world in non-religious contexts.

Why the need to capitalize the word atheist?

Why the need to capitalize the word christian? I feel no need as shown in the above responses.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why the need to capitalize the word christian? I feel no need as shown in the above responses.

"Christian" is a proper noun. "Atheist" is a common noun. Normally, proper nouns are capitalized and common nouns aren't (unless they start a sentence, of course).

 

[liberator]

After being a Catholic for 46 years i am now an atheist. I was brain washed into beleiving in a mythical God. No religion has ever proved that this god exists we merely have to take their word for it . As a journalist you never take anybodies word for anything or you would quickly lose your job you need to back things up with research, religions have never provided any research to
prove the existence of God.

 

[freethinker44]

I guess I am wondering about the emotion one would have to experience when you first decide there is no God.

If you have ever read "The allegory of the cave", that is pretty much how atheism feels to me. It isn't really that much of a relief, it is just knowledge that there is more to the world than the "cave" I thought was truth.

It does feel liberating but only in context, because I thought I was completely happy and free before, but now I know there is more happiness and freedom than religion can offer, but at the same time there is more to fear without religions protective embrace even if that protection was never really there. But still, given what I know about reality now, I could never go back and be happy in the "cave".

I am definitely a "real" atheist too. I have been in more than a few life threatening situations, some where people were actively trying to kill me and not once did god enter my thoughts. Although I would have considered myself a real atheist without having my life threatened.

 

[ellenjanuary]

The purpose of god is for the individual to find comfort in god.

~Line 3, The Gwynnite Hypothesis. I could say that line came directly from god, but in all honesty, I have no idea. All I know, that line works for everybody. If god is not comfortable to the individual, then god does not exist. God don't mind, I don't mind, you shouldn't mind.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Most of the atheists I know also came from religious families. I presume that's cuz there is just so gosh darn many of them.
(Atheist families are few & far between.) Many tell me that ditching the dogma was liberating. None have told me they felt a loss.

We are trendy & cool? Who'da thunk it!

Alas, I've always been an atheist, so I can't speak much about the conversion experience.
I can tell you that I'm not sad, nor are the other atheists whom I know. So the "indeed" in your title is quite a stretch.
But I can see that to a believer, atheist converts would appear to have suffered the loss of what you hold dear.

This is pretty much my stance as well....