The Atheist Contradiction and Reasoning

[Fatihah]

One other thing, the highlighted portion is a non-sequitur.

DNA is the how answer, especially during our earliest developmental stages. DNA is the blueprint. It contains all of the genetic information and instructions necessary for building a living thing. In the earliest stages of life, DNA tells the embryo how to assemble itself (for lack of a better term). This process is known as "embryogenesis" and it is governed entirely by the genetic instructions contained in DNA, half of which comes from the mother, the other half from the father. When these two halves of the gene sequence are united, the process begins (in species with two sexes. In species that reproduce asexually, the entire genetic code comes from the mother but the process is largely the same). Without DNA, life would be impossible.



DNA is still the answer. It is a complex pattern that repeats itself and it is designed without any intelligent involvement. DNA is also the how answer. It is the answer to how a living thing is made.

Response: Post 304 proves to the contrary.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Response: Post 304 proves to the contrary.

Another case of "Fatihah says it, therefore it must be true", eh?

Well, post #310 has already proved you wrong, so there's actually little more for me to do.

 

[Fatihah]

Fati, you do more to defame the reputation of islam than a hundred like myself ever could. For that I salute you.

Response: You do more to defame atheism that people run to embrace islam. For that I salute you.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Response: You do more to defame atheism that people run to embrace islam. For that I salute you.

:biglaugh:

 

[McBell]

Response: You mean like the trolling you do because of the anger you feel after having your arguments utterly debunked over and over and over and over again? Yes, I can see that.

You have not debunked any argument in this thread.

In fact, I know not of any argument you have debunked ever.

But do not let truth and facts interfere with your fantasy world.

 

[McBell]

English isn't my first language,...

Your English comprehension is so far better than Fatihah's.
I mean, he cannot even understand what he himself posts.

 

[McBell]

or my religion.

Oh no.
Fatihah is going to unleash his ego!!!

Let us all pray to our chosen deities that his ego is not as well developed as his denial!!



Ps.
Can i borrow a deity for a few?

 

[McBell]

Response: Another one of your answers, in an attempt to distract from the clear fact that you have no logical answer to the questions posed in the Opening Post. It's amazing how you can participate on threads, and do nothing but run the whole time. Most people don't like the idea of being exposed as a person who has absolutlely nothing logical to say, but you amazing like the exposure. Interesting.

Where you looking in the mirror when you made that post?
You just described yourself to a tee.

 

[McBell]

Response: If there is no proof of intelligent design, then you should be able to provide an answer to how a pattern which repeats itself can be designed without intelligence.

I have pointed out several patterns right here on RF that did not come from intelligence.
Your ignoring them does not make then go away.

You have no logical answer. No one does, because there is none.

This is a bold faced lie.
Your Allah must really be proud of you.

Thus your non-answer alone is evidence which supports the proof of intelligent design.

You truly are a sad sad little man.

 

[McBell]

Fati, you do more to defame the reputation of islam than a hundred like myself ever could. For that I salute you.

The really sad part is that Fatihah is completely incapable of comprehending the truth of your post.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Response: You do more to defame atheism that people run to embrace islam. For that I salute you.

You see a lot of people renouncing atheism and turning to Islam, do you?

I'm going to have to ask for some evidence of that. Unless, of course, you want to swear that you never made such a claim, immediately after saying it.

I've seen your work.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I mean, he cannot even understand what he himself posts.

Nor should he be expected to.

What Fatihah posts is such utter nonsense, I'd be shocked if anyone outside of an asylum could understand it.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Nor should he be expected to.

What Fatihah posts is such utter nonsense, I'd be shocked if anyone outside of an asylum could understand it.

It's gotten to the point where I actually believe he does this on purpose, just to see how much of a reaction he can get. Nobody with the mental capacity to write can actually believe they're so infallible.

 

[Wotan]

It's gotten to the point where I actually believe he does this on purpose, just to see how much of a reaction he can get. Nobody with the mental capacity to write can actually believe they're so infallible.

I think you fail to appreciate the extent to which religious fanaticism can corrode one's reasoning ability.:sad4:

 

[DarkSun]

Response: To some extent. You would have to elaborate more on why you say that a pattern designed to repeat itself is not proof that it was designed by intelligence.

Because there is an explanation available which does not require a Creator for it to work. Just because something is complex doesn't automatically mean it was designed. Here is the brief scientific explanation for how things came to be. If some of the things here are slightly inaccurate, then I apologize. I'm not an evolutionary biologist or a physicist - I'm a chemist, so this might not be one-hundred percent spot on. But from what I know. In the beginning, there was nothing but energy in its most un-condensed form, tightly backed together, and forced to move in an extremely slow vibration. Within an incomprehensible space of time, something remarkably improbable occurred. What you must understand is that given an infinite amount of time, anything can happen, because everything is possible but there are just varying levels of improbability.

This remarkably improbable event was the Singularity, or the moment at which the Big Bang was initiated, where the energy was forced to explode and expand, creating the universe. Anyway, to really dumb it down, the Singularity led to the big bang, and whole heap of something autonomously spawned itself from nothing. The energy gradually became more complex - particles merged together, and we eventually got the most basic element we know today. Hydrogen. There doesn't need to be a cause for the Singularity for it to have happened. Just remember that this is only possible because of the massive time-span over which this happened. It would have taken trillions of years. It may not sound like much, but if you think about it, science says this Earth we live on is only 4,500,000,000 years old. A trillion years is 1,000,000,000,000 years. The time span in which this occurred is orders of magnitude greater than anything we could ever comprehend. So given this virtually limitless amount of time, of course something as improbable as the singularity could happen by chance (even if it took trillions, and trillions, and trillions and trillions of years). In fact, all of this was BOUND to happen eventually at some point in eternity, it was MEANT to happen. Given the time scale we're talking about, even the most improbable things are possible, and indeed, inevitable. But for the energy to condense to hydrogen, that would have taken only a few trillion years. (Of course, I'm only giving rough figures).

Once the hydrogen had formed, it would have only taken a few trillion years for heaps of it to cluster together into a relatively small volume, to form a star. Since a star has so much mass in such a small amount of space, this causes a perturbation in space-time, a kind of hole in the fabric of space, and in this way, other forms of mass are attracted to this bend in space time much like a ball rolling down a hill. The attraction of two masses is called gravity. When gravity's acceleration acts on an mass, it creates a force. Therefore, with a sun, since there is a lot of mass in a small unit of space, there is a lot of force acting on such a small surface area. This creates a massive amount of pressure acting on the mass, which makes the constituting hydrogen atoms within a sun extremely energetic. They're moving around so quickly, colliding with each other and letting off heat so rapidly, that their nuclei can fuse and create even larger elements. This is known as stellar nucleosynthesis. And then when the stars got too massive, ie, the matter in the stars has fused into much heavier elements so that the pressure inherent with the particular star can no longer provide then energy required for fusion - the stars will either explode in a massive supernova, or become even more dense and become a black hole consisting only of neutrons with no electrons between. From the numerous supernova that have occurred in the solar system, much heavier elements like iron were able to form.

These heavier, more complex elements congregated together to form minerals like rocks, molecules like water. Huge, massive, rocks of iron and carbon, and various other substances, eventually congregated together to form a huge, massive lump. Our planet, Earth, began as a HUGE rock with masses of water vapor and methane and gasses in the atmosphere. Over something close to a billion years (that's 1,000,000,000 years) the water vapor condensed onto the rock surface and we got oceans that were red due to the methane atmosphere. This water was volatile, however. You must realize that the climate was in a constant state of disorder and chaos. The terrain was constantly shifting, volcanoes erupting, thunder storms raging... and amidst it all, with the energy and heat provided by everything, trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions of chemical reactions were occurring each second. And no, that is not an exaggeration. The sheer number of chemical reactions occurring at this point in Earth's history was astronomical. Incomprehensible. Utterly-mind blowing. And again, we have a huge amount of time in which this could happen. So with these two factors in mind, since anything is possible given enough time, and since a lot of reactions were happening at once, it only makes sense that EVENTUALLY, something resembling a cell would be formed. A whole bunch of organic molecules (formed in the volatile conditions) congregated together, in the water, in such a way as to form a cell. And eventually, a cell would be formed that not only has molecules inside it, but has the right molecules with which to allow the cell to replicate itself. So not only do we have a cell - we have a cell that can multiply.

And from that one self-replicating cell, if not multiple self-replicating cells, we get natural selection, where only the best cells suited for survival, actually survived, and the other cells which were inferior, died out. So over generations and generations of cells, we eventually get only the best cells living. These superior cells engulfed other cells, and gained what we call organelles - little "organs" within cells. These cells gradually evolved through generations. But for 2 billion years of Earth's history, the only cells out there were prokaryotes. Eventually, though, more complicated life forms started to emerge. Cells started working together, functioning as a whole, and all the while natural selection played its role, so only the best multi-cellular organisms survived. The first multi-cellular organisms to live on land resembled algae, then came plants, then came insects, then came reptiles (dinosaurs), then came mammals. And two billion years after the prokaryote age... Here we are.

This is the scientific point of view. Notice that this explanation does not require a Creator to be present. At all. But with that in mind, I still believe in one anyway. Most definitely not the same creator that you believe in - because I personally don't view the Abrahamic God as a possibility. But who knows really. It could exist. But just because things are complex and follow a repeating pattern doesn't necessarily mean that a Creator made them. Therefore, since there is another explanation for the complexity and the fact that we all have similarities with each other (we descended from a common ancestor), the fact that there are repeating things in nature is not proof for a creator. I don't know how to explain it much clearer than that. Just because things are complex does not mean that a creator designed us all, therefore, this is not proof of a creator, which means that there is still no empirical proof for a creator. Thus, the belief in a Creator is not a scientific one. But it is still valid as a personal belief. There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing that. I do. I can't imagine how there couldn't be a Creator. I just feel awe at everything I see when I look at it. I can't see how the world couldn't be designed. What if God initiated the Singularity? But I can still see that this opinion is not a scientific opinion. I hope you have read this and considered everything I've said. I would hate to think that I've just wasted half an hour of my life.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You wrote all that to be told you're in denial. Brace yourself...

 

[The_Evelyonian]

I would hate to think that I've just wasted half an hour of my life.

As I.S.L.A.M617 said, brace yourself.

 

[Fatihah]

Because there is an explanation available which does not require a Creator for it to work. Just because something is complex doesn't automatically mean it was designed. Here is the brief scientific explanation for how things came to be. If some of the things here are slightly inaccurate, then I apologize. I'm not an evolutionary biologist or a physicist - I'm a chemist, so this might not be one-hundred percent spot on. But from what I know. In the beginning, there was nothing but energy in its most un-condensed form, tightly backed together, and forced to move in an extremely slow vibration. Within an incomprehensible space of time, something remarkably improbable occurred. What you must understand is that given an infinite amount of time, anything can happen, because everything is possible but there are just varying levels of improbability.

This remarkably improbable event was the Singularity, or the moment at which the Big Bang was initiated, where the energy was forced to explode and expand, creating the universe. Anyway, to really dumb it down, the Singularity led to the big bang, and whole heap of something autonomously spawned itself from nothing. The energy gradually became more complex - particles merged together, and we eventually got the most basic element we know today. Hydrogen. There doesn't need to be a cause for the Singularity for it to have happened. Just remember that this is only possible because of the massive time-span over which this happened. It would have taken trillions of years. It may not sound like much, but if you think about it, science says this Earth we live on is only 4,500,000,000 years old. A trillion years is 1,000,000,000,000 years. The time span in which this occurred is orders of magnitude greater than anything we could ever comprehend. So given this virtually limitless amount of time, of course something as improbable as the singularity could happen by chance (even if it took trillions, and trillions, and trillions and trillions of years). In fact, all of this was BOUND to happen eventually at some point in eternity, it was MEANT to happen. Given the time scale we're talking about, even the most improbable things are possible, and indeed, inevitable. But for the energy to condense to hydrogen, that would have taken only a few trillion years. (Of course, I'm only giving rough figures).

Once the hydrogen had formed, it would have only taken a few trillion years for heaps of it to cluster together into a relatively small volume, to form a star. Since a star has so much mass in such a small amount of space, this causes a perturbation in space-time, a kind of hole in the fabric of space, and in this way, other forms of mass are attracted to this bend in space time much like a ball rolling down a hill. The attraction of two masses is called gravity. When gravity's acceleration acts on an mass, it creates a force. Therefore, with a sun, since there is a lot of mass in a small unit of space, there is a lot of force acting on such a small surface area. This creates a massive amount of pressure acting on the mass, which makes the constituting hydrogen atoms within a sun extremely energetic. They're moving around so quickly, colliding with each other and letting off heat so rapidly, that their nuclei can fuse and create even larger elements. This is known as stellar nucleosynthesis. And then when the stars got too massive, ie, the matter in the stars has fused into much heavier elements so that the pressure inherent with the particular star can no longer provide then energy required for fusion - the stars will either explode in a massive supernova, or become even more dense and become a black hole consisting only of neutrons with no electrons between. From the numerous supernova that have occurred in the solar system, much heavier elements like iron were able to form.

These heavier, more complex elements congregated together to form minerals like rocks, molecules like water. Huge, massive, rocks of iron and carbon, and various other substances, eventually congregated together to form a huge, massive lump. Our planet, Earth, began as a HUGE rock with masses of water vapor and methane and gasses in the atmosphere. Over something close to a billion years (that's 1,000,000,000 years) the water vapor condensed onto the rock surface and we got oceans that were red due to the methane atmosphere. This water was volatile, however. You must realize that the climate was in a constant state of disorder and chaos. The terrain was constantly shifting, volcanoes erupting, thunder storms raging... and amidst it all, with the energy and heat provided by everything, trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions of chemical reactions were occurring each second. And no, that is not an exaggeration. The sheer number of chemical reactions occurring at this point in Earth's history was astronomical. Incomprehensible. Utterly-mind blowing. And again, we have a huge amount of time in which this could happen. So with these two factors in mind, since anything is possible given enough time, and since a lot of reactions were happening at once, it only makes sense that EVENTUALLY, something resembling a cell would be formed. A whole bunch of organic molecules (formed in the volatile conditions) congregated together, in the water, in such a way as to form a cell. And eventually, a cell would be formed that not only has molecules inside it, but has the right molecules with which to allow the cell to replicate itself. So not only do we have a cell - we have a cell that can multiply.

And from that one self-replicating cell, if not multiple self-replicating cells, we get natural selection, where only the best cells suited for survival, actually survived, and the other cells which were inferior, died out. So over generations and generations of cells, we eventually get only the best cells living. These superior cells engulfed other cells, and gained what we call organelles - little "organs" within cells. These cells gradually evolved through generations. But for 2 billion years of Earth's history, the only cells out there were prokaryotes. Eventually, though, more complicated life forms started to emerge. Cells started working together, functioning as a whole, and all the while natural selection played its role, so only the best multi-cellular organisms survived. The first multi-cellular organisms to live on land resembled algae, then came plants, then came insects, then came reptiles (dinosaurs), then came mammals. And two billion years after the prokaryote age... Here we are.

This is the scientific point of view. Notice that this explanation does not require a Creator to be present. At all. But with that in mind, I still believe in one anyone. Most definitely not the same creator that you believe in - because I personally don't view the Abrahamic God as a possibility. But who knows really. It could exist. But just because things are complex and follow a repeating pattern doesn't necessarily mean that a Creator made them. Therefore, since there is another explanation for the complexity and the fact that we all have similarities with each other (we descended from a common ancestor), the fact that there are repeating things in nature is not proof for a creator. I don't know how to explain it much clearer than that. Just because things are complex does not mean that a creator designed us all, therefore, this is not proof of a creator, which means that there is still no empirical proof for a creator. Thus, the belief in a Creator is not a scientific one. But it is still valid as a personal belief. There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing that. I do. I can't imagine how there couldn't be a Creator. I just feel awe at everything I see when I look at it. I can't see how the world couldn't be designed. What if God initiated the Singularity? But I can still see that this opinion is not a scientific opinion. I hope you have read this and considered everything I've said. I would hate to think that I've just wasted half an hour of my life.

Response: Very informative. I never stated though that the explanation you presented was not the scientific explanation. I know that it is. I'm just merely asking those who accept such an explanation of design as an actual fact, why do they accept it as such. For one can attribute many explanations to many things, but as you already know, not every explanation is true. That's all I'm saying. However, thank you for your response. Again, it was very informative.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Response: Very informative. I never stated though that the explanation you presented was not the scientific explanation. I know that it is. I'm just merely asking those who accept such an explanation of design as an actual fact, why do they accept it as such. For one can attribute many explanations to many things, but as you already know, not every explanation is true. That's all I'm saying. However, thank you for your response. Again, it was very informative.

What did you do with Fatihah?

 

[Luminous]

Response: All this from a person who dodges the simple yes or no question as to whether a room can be designed neatly without intelligence, and if so, how. You dodge a simple question and want me to answer yours. Sorry. Once again, another example of flawed reasoning by atheists.

statistics assums that nothing is impossible. Statistically speaking, there is a chance that a room can become neat without any "mind" at work to do it.
btw: a room cannot be "designed" exept with intelligence. and since your argument assums that nothing is random, then there is no way for you to further your believes. since you assume that there is no way you can be wrong, you truely have no reason to argue other than to badger other people's believes.