The Atonement Doctrine (Did Jesus Die For Our Sins?)

[Ben Avraham]

Even though I certainly believe in Him; can a prophet come from Galilee?
What about the scriptures where he went to well again in galilee?
49But this crowd that does not know the Law, they are under a curse.” 50Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier, and who himself was one of them, asked,
51“Does our Law convict a man without first hearing from him to determine what he has done?”…
“Aren’t you also from Galilee?” they replied, “Look into it and you will see that no prophet comes out of Galilee.” 53Then each went to his own home.

At that time, prophets could not come from nowhere. The prophetic system in Israel had been abolished soon after the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon and the Second Jewish Commonwealth had been organized. (Daniel 9:24)

 

[Ben Avraham]

I believe Exodus shows us much of what is happening on the cross. The people who would not let Israelites go were sinning against God and had no way to pay the penalty for their sin except death. The Israelites also were sinners but because they placed their faith in God a sacrifice was made for their sin so they wouldn't die because of it. On the cross the Israelites were the sinners against God who had to pay the price (The destruction of Jerusalem and dispersal throughout the Roman Empire). Those who received the sacrifice of Jesus were spared from that judgement having no need for the Temple and having already been dispersed which for them was a good thing towards spreading the Gospel.

I believe you can call it what you want but it still was a sacrifice for sin.

You have all the right in the world to believe whatever you please, only not to use a Jew to promote a Hellenistic religion aka Christianity; and you still can do that but illegally.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

I'm not using something to promote Hellenistic religion at least I think so. If your looking at some of your theology.
If you look at the turning over of the tables. I do like his words.
However...
lets talk about light how; do you view the light of God?
Does God know or feel?

 

[Ben Avraham]

I'm not using something to promote Hellenistic religion at least I think so. If your looking at some of your theology.
If you look at the turning over of the tables. I do like his words.
However...
lets talk about light how; do you view the light of God?
Does God know or feel?

To feel, one must be corporeal. Jesus said that God is a Spirit. (John 4:24) Spirits are not corporeal. Therefore, God does not feel. Regarding the light of God, if you read Matthew 5:14, Jesus said that the Jews are the light of the world.
When HaShem said in Genesis 1:3 "Let there be light," I hold the premonition that the first Divine prophecy for the rise of Israel had been voiced by the Lord. When the time was ripe for that to happen, Israel had been formed out of the
loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the light of the world. (Isaiah 42:6)

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

To feel, one must be corporeal. Jesus said that God is a Spirit. (John 4:24) Spirits are not corporeal. Therefore, God does not feel. Regarding the light of God, if you read Matthew 5:14, Jesus said that the Jews are the light of the world. When HaShem said in Genesis 1:3 "Let there be light," I hold the premonition that the first Divine prophecy for the rise of Israel had been voiced by the Lord. When the time was ripe for that to happen, Israel had been formed out of the
loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the light of the world. (Isaiah 42:6)

So what the hell is the rest of the world to you?

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

does feeling imply emotion?

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Is that curtain still closed ?

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

I do this all the time chase around the burning bush.

 

[MountainPine]

and the sons of Adam and Eve made sacrifices....

for what?
who told them to do so?
and the lesson there?.......kill something for God?

Download this book and read chapter 5.

 

[psychoslice]

No, I don't believe Jesus died for anyone's sins except his own, the myth of Jesus dying for our sins is a metaphor, we need to die ourselves, that is our so called carnal self, so as to allow our true inner being to shine through, that is the Christ self.

 

[MountainPine]

No, I don't believe Jesus died for anyone's sins except his own, the myth of Jesus dying for our sins is a metaphor, we need to die ourselves, that is our so called carnal self, so as to allow our true inner being to shine through, that is the Christ self.

So you believe that murder victims die because they sinned? That's cold,

 

[Thief]

So you believe that murder victims die because they sinned? That's cold,

if you happen to be a sinner....
and you happen to be killed....
you end up cold

 

[psychoslice]

So you believe that murder victims die because they sinned? That's cold,

No one was murdered, its a metaphor.

 

[Thief]

so the crucifixion of the Carpenter was not a murder?

 

[moorea944]

Jesus never compromised any of God's laws. You make the distinction of Mosaic law, it is all Gods law. The new law, the new covenant did not come about till the old law was completely fulfilled, in the Christ. The law required compliance, or death for breaking it. Contending that God puts away part of his law and ignores it, the penalty for sin, means God really didn't mean what he said. So Christ lived a perfect life in our place as a substitution for us, he died the penalty of sin, as our substitute. So the required perfect life was lived by us through Christ, and the penalty for our sin was payed through Christ. God required sinlessness to be right before the law, and death for breaking the law. Gods requirements were fulfilled. Christ is our substitute, and our advocate, It was not against the law to point out the failings or people, nor was it against the law to talk about the Spiritual kingdom of God. Christ said, "no greater love exists than that of one who lays down his life for his friends"

So your saying that Christ was our substitute, he died so we dont have to? Sorry, I"m just not seeing this substitute thing.....

 

[atpollard]

So your saying that Christ was our substitute, he died so we dont have to? Sorry, I"m just not seeing this substitute thing.....

Embrace Reformed Theology ... we will not require you to be one of the elect.
You will be free to disbelieve AND claim orthodoxy!

(Just trying to help.).

 

[moorea944]

Embrace Reformed Theology ... we will not require you to be one of the elect.
You will be free to disbelieve AND claim orthodoxy!

(Just trying to help.).

lol What????......

 

[MountainPine]

No one was murdered, its a metaphor.

Hmm.... do you believe that Jesus' life was a metaphor too? That he never really existed? That's called Marcionism. The Manicheans believed the same.

 

[atpollard]

lol What????......

(I apologize if you know this, it is stated for anyone reading who is unfamiliar with the terms so they will understand the joke)

The two main branches of thought in Christian Protestant Theology are Arminianism and Cavinism (aka. Reformed) and each is named after a famous advocate of that school of thought.
In Arminianism, people cooperate with God in choosing or rejecting 'salvation' ... so your (anyone's) faith or lack of faith is the person's fault. It places the burden on Arminian evangelists to convince you (anyone) of God's truth for the sake of your soul.
In Calvinism/Reformed Theology, all people are born incapable of believing the truth, so God chooses (for reasons known only to him, but having nothing to do with any goodness in us) to give some people the faith to believe and seek 'salvation'. The choice of who would be 'elected' by God to be saved is not based on us, so Reformed evangelists are only concerned that everyone hear the message of God. Whether you believe it or not is 100% in God's hands.

Thus you could embrace Reformed Theology, self classify as not one of the 'elect' and you are free to disbelieve all you want while remaining 100% orthodox to Reformed Theology.

 

[Thief]

Embrace Reformed Theology ... we will not require you to be one of the elect.
You will be free to disbelieve AND claim orthodoxy!

(Just trying to help.).

would being a rogue theologian qualify?
and in this country I could declare myself as enlightened
then start my own church

tax exemptions included ....if I jumped all the hoops