The Bacteria.

[Godobeyer]

@LuisDantas
I heard once that bacteria is root of life in earth, if that true , how it's converted to cell protein ?

 

[LuisDantas]

You should probably ask a biologist, but anyway...

@LuisDantas
I heard once that bacteria is root of life in earth,

That is the best educated guess available so far, indeed.

if that true , how it's converted to cell protein ?

Bacteria produce proteins the same way we do, by way of their DNA.

But I am honestly not sure either you or @FearGod are aware of the anatomy of bacteria cells, because if you were you would not be asking these questions.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I know what you're driving at, you mean "dead" means it was living at one point of time before being dead,
but dead can means has no life as well, here's the meaning for dead

http://www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-en/ميت/

What is the arabic word for a dead as in "a dead body" and what is the arabic word for non-living things like dirt and rocks?

edit. I found it.

Apparenetly the word for inanimate objects like rocks, non-living earth (earth prior to life) would be جامد؛ جماد؛ لا روح فيه

The word for dead is probably عامة

 

[Godobeyer]

That is the best educated guess available so far, indeed.

It's weird that bacteria stop producing new creatures ,so far !

Bacteria produce proteins the same way we do, by way of their DNA.

let's suppose that it's could produce one cell protein ?

how much time that protein cell stay could alive ?

How that one cell protein could made all these different formes of life ?

 

[LuisDantas]

It's weird that bacteria stop producing new creatures ,so far !

Uh? That is not an entirely understandable statement.

My best guess is that you mean to say something along the lines of:

"If all other eucharyotes are descendants from bacteria, how come they have stopped mutating into new species?"

The short answer is: they did not stop. It just isn't quite so apparent once you already have a whole ecosystem in place.

let's suppose that it's could produce one cell protein ?

We know that they do. They could not survive nor reproduce without producing cell protein molecules.

Nor can we, for that matter.

how much time that protein cell stay could alive ?

All living cells, be them of bacteria or of mammals, are "protein cells". They may survive anywhere from a fraction of a second to many years.

Cell proteins, by contrast, are just molecules. They can't be said to be alive, although they are part of living beings.

How that one cell protein could made all these different formes of life ?

By differentiating through imperfect replication. It sped up a lot once sexual reproduction arose.

But really... that is Biology 101.

 

[FearGod]

What is the arabic word for a dead as in "a dead body" and what is the arabic word for non-living things like dirt and rocks?

edit. I found it.

Apparenetly the word for inanimate objects like rocks, non-living earth (earth prior to life) would be جامد؛ جماد؛ لا روح فيه

The word for dead is probably عامة

The word for dead is ميت

 

[Monk Of Reason]

The word for dead is ميت

Thanks.

 

[Godobeyer]

All living cells, be them of bacteria or of mammals, are "protein cells". They may survive anywhere from a fraction of a second to many years.

Cell proteins, by contrast, are just molecules. They can't be said to be alive, although they are part of living beings.
.

I doubt it could live for many years, do you have evidence

Let's suppose you are right.
Now if that one cell dead after years , so how this life got started?

 

[FearGod]

Thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Yes
Water, sugar, protein, lipids.......

So what part of water, sugars, proteins and lipids are "living"?

 

[LuisDantas]

I doubt it could live for many years, do you have evidence

Let's suppose you are right.
Now if that one cell dead after years , so how this life got started?

Seriously, Godobeyer, you are basically asking if biologists ever existed.

 

[FearGod]

So what part of water, sugars, proteins and lipids are "living"?

The easy answer, combination of all, Biology 101.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The easy answer, combination of all, Biology 101.

The answer is no part of the cell is living and no part of an organism is living. The proteins, sugars and lipids are highly interactive via natural forces. This whole thing about "living" matter is a joke. Matter is just matter...it is interactive, that's all. Some forms or some systems are more interactive than others.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Hi Folks..

Luis;

Hmm - that describes perfectly how the body MACHINE works - but doesnt actually tell us anything about LIFE itself - does it..?..The body is not the SOURCE of the life to begin with - so trying to work this out from a a scientific material perspective simply wont work I dont think...We can define what life LOOKS like - how we expect it to behave - but we dont have a clue at all as to what life ACTUALLY is...

WHAT is this ABSTRACT force that suddenly kicks in and starts the body MACHINE up and running..??...Its NOT CONTAINED within the material structures that we call "life" - and we know that because try as we might - we simply can NOT get the basic building blocks such as dna and rna to SPONTANEOUSLY occur - we ourselves can NOT simply cause life to exist...Neither can we take once alive things kill them and then re animate them despite knowing how they are put together fully, right down AT that genetic level....we understand a LOT OF KNOWLEDGE - but the very first crucial question remains totally unanswered..WHAT is life ACTUALLY..?....WHAT is the force that POWERS these forms..?...

(it is a MIND)

Science tells us that "life" started as a "soup of chemical ingrediants" - that somehow came together in exactly the right combination and ratios to kick start a purely chemical reaction that leads to ever more complex forms..That is most obviosuly very flawed - probably totally erroneous in fact - it may LOOK like it happened that way - but on closer inspection we soon see that it COULD NOT have happened that way at all..

Life came about spontaneously they say - but it most certainly did not - and they then went on to PROVE their first theory as incorrect...See and understand here - we can take a living creature - break it down to its chemical constituent parts and we can then leve them alone inthat "soup" just as they say it happened in the beginning...Now, according to their theory, when these chemicals come together in the correct mix, this process just kick starts all by itself....lol....and life happens...

Except of course - NO IT DOESNT - not EVER - kill something, mash it up into a chemical paste - it does NOT spontanously come back to life..lol..and so we know for sure that when they say life started as this random primordial mix of chemicals out in the WORLDS OCEANS that somehow got gathered in the PRECISE conditions necassary - it is all complete BS and their own experiments show us this simly never happened at all and that life MUST have been a PLANNED EVENT...

MUST have been - and we know that because as said - kill something - mash it up then wait for life to happen and re animate - it DOES NOT EVER HAPPEN - BUT - INTERVENE a bit - MANIPULATE it a bit - apply our WISDOM and OUR MIND - and we can MAKE it happen !!

We CAN form base building blocks form raw chemicals - but it DOES require PLANNED PROCESS to make the chemicals bind the way we need...Unless these base chemical interactions occur precisely then the process fails and "life" doesnt take hold at all...Therefore science already knows beyond any doubt life here WAS a planned event...It REQUIRES direct manipulation to make these base structures exist..This means of course there was a fully Sentient intelligent and forward thinking planing MIND that quite literally caused the life process ot start...The obvious truth of known scientific facts makes this abundantly clear - for the process requires direct intervention and that intervention must be precise and planned..

DNA never forms spontaneously ever as far as we can actually tell - it doesnt miraculously "come to life" even when the exact chemical ratios are placed together in the perfect conditions,still FAILURE each and every time..To even start the process requires precise tinkering and manipulation - and to mimick the complete process is way way way beyond what man currently understands....Despite our best efforts - we find that life is something EXTERNAL to the body form - like a seed that was placed within it and once that body form fails so that seed is removed again...Even if you repair the form, the seed remains absent...Despite fully knowing the entire genome of the animal - literal blueprint for the bodyform - still we cannot "grow the seed of life" at all - it is something ENTIRELY SEPERATE to the material process.....The thing that is actually missing - is the elusive "Divine spark of life" - a tiny energetic impulse of ORIGINAL Divine mind that will then literally power the individual form...Life is not physical at all...All about MIND coming to Self awareness....

Yes, it's pretty hard for chemists to mimick a billion years of change. I suspect electromagnetism plays the biggest role in so far as driving those complex interactions we call life....perhaps some other Fundamental Forces as well.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Hi Folks...

Very interesting thread...To my mind though - some of the things that get classed as "alive" - I would definately have to dispute..

A bacteria - a virus - not alive at all...it may be an ANIMATED FORM - but it is not truly ALIVE....To my mind, to be TRULY alive - the INDIVIDUAL must be capable of realising their OWN existance....Certainly, for a form such as a bacteria or mircobe this cannot apply - and even for much MUCH more complex forms,this status of truly alive does not apply either...

Most insects for example are NOT truly alive either - they are animated forms that act purely on PROGRAMMED INSTINCT - they are automotons - robots..Even some larger animals,higher forms we may think, but animlas such as cows and sheep - likewise, not TRULY alive - still largely instinctual and none sentient...

Indeed, thinking about it, I find crucial criteria arise that I personally would use to define TRUE life - the form MUST be sufficiently SELF AWARE - posess a SENTIENT mind - and preferably, have a good EMOTIONAL capacity as well.....Certainly if the animal does not even realise that it IS alive, if it is purely instinctual and following genetic imperatives only then that is not really being alive at all - so a SENTIENT Self aware mind is a definate pre requisite to TRUE life..

Once the animal form develops BOTH Sentient mind AND sufficient EMOTIONAL capacity -then it begins the real journey as it is now capable of sustaining it Self as an ETERNAL SOUL..

Really - life - existance - is NOT about form, structure, physical conditions - not at all - TRUE LIFE - is all about MIND - becoming fully SELF AWARE - attaining SELF GNOSIS...The form is IRRELEVANT - eventually every mind will reach and disclose its own full potential - for we all exist as a unique form within a SINGLE fully omniscient MIND that caused it all to unfold..There is no seperation at all - only the ILLUSION of a physical form that the mind currently inhabits and identifies it Self with...I and My Father are ONE - always - life is a journey of Self discovery - existance here is a progression of stages of Self realisation that takes us right back to this Divine Source of it all...For a Human Being - life here is a journey of Self REMEMBERING - Whoa nd What we are BEFORE we took these illusionary forms..For those with ears to hear.......

Nothing is truly "alive", everything is interactive.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

The answer is no part of the cell is living and no part of an organism is living. The proteins, sugars and lipids are highly interactive via natural forces. This whole thing about "living" matter is a joke. Matter is just matter...it is interactive, that's all. Some forms or some systems are more interactive than others.

I think that often called being an emergent property--something not apparent in the parts, when together exhibiting what we call life.

 

[Flankerl]

Ask the Torah.

I don't have to. We aren't anti-science.

Like the dead sea, nothing live in it.

Nothing apart from algae, bacteria, and fungi. Oups.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I think that often called being an emergent property--something not apparent in the parts, when together exhibiting what we call life.

Yes, agreed. Just trying to get people to see it from a different perspective rather than thinking life is some new "force" that emerges or is created. It's just how things appear when they've reached a certain level of interactivity.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

RuneWolf;

Yes, it's pretty hard for chemists to mimick a billion years of change. I suspect electromagnetism plays the biggest role in so far as driving those complex interactions we call life....perhaps some other Fundamental Forces as well.

Yes I think you are right on the money there...ELECTROMAGNETISM - as we call it - is actually the fundamental "energy" of creation itself - EVERYTHING is formed form an ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELD.....Now - the only thing science really needs to appreciate here - is that this electromagnetic field that forms literally everything - is itself a CONSCIOUS entity - it is a MIND !!!

Chemists mimicking billions of years of change though..??.....Hmmmmm - think about it - they tell us that ACTUALLY - all this is supposedly SPONTANEOUS....Bring the correct chemicals together close proximity - correct ratios - et voila - as if by magic they say this Supra complex dna molecule comes about "all by itself" SPONTANEOUSLY. and the life process BEGINS.. We dont need to wait around billion of years for the changes to unfold into diverse lifeforms - that part of "evolution" is irrelevant here - as we are looking for the very first step - the START of the process.....

And science so far is adamant - this first step is a SPONTANEOUS and totally natural event - they reckon...Like I say then according to THEIR accepted wisdom - we SHOULD be able to simply kill something mash it down into that primordial soup, then sit and observe as this "natural event" happens again and that once alive but now dead chemical mix SHOULD just reconstitute itself to form life again....IT NEVER DOES....Not even the basic building blocks form WITHOUT direct manipulation..Despite EVERYTHING being present and despite it ONCE being alive - no amount of tampering by us can make it resume that "alive" state....SOMETHING IS MIISSING - something that is NONE MATERIAL - not physical at all - fully ABSTRACT - and we know that for a definate undeniable fact as we have ALL the material ingrediants of a ONCE ALIVE animal yet still it will not animate...

The thing that is missing - is indeed a "spark of life" and it is most definatley NOT contained in anythign material or physical as our dead animal tests show us - but ithis missing ingrediant is the very over riding force itself that CAUSES the formation OF those material components....This "missing spark" is quite literally the "Governer" - the "Controller" - it is the instigator and CAUSE of the life process itself - and it is fully NONE PHYSICAL - totally abstract - wholly the domain of a SENTIENT MIND..

Chemical interaction and STABILITY....The thing to grasp here is that all forms of "energy" seek to attina na equilibrium - a balance -and once that balance is attained it takes an EXTERNAL stimulus to alter the state again....BALANCE - once the first chemical ENERGETIC reaction attained its equilibrium than ALL LIFE PROCESSES WOULD END - balance maintained no need of r change at all....

Crucial to understand - because yet again it shows us clearly that SOMETHING EXTERNAL to the material process is CAUSING the process to unfold as it does....Think about it...Not only do we NEED such intervention to make the chemical react as needed in the very first step - we ALSO need this external influence to make the process continue to unfold..Left alone - life would have attained its first energetic equilibrium - in the microbial layer of existance - and it would have STOPPED there balance achieved NO STIMULUS for any change at all.....Again we know THIS is true also - as see - NO NEW LIFEFORMS ARE EMERGING - are they..??..No - all life follows PRE DETERMINED patterns !!! All life REQUIRES this crucial FIRST MANIPULATION to actually cause the chemical compounds to react as needed...NOT NATURAL AT ALL !!! Only happens when a SENTIENT MIND intervenes to MAKE it happen !!!

EVERYTHING comes from the fully ABSTRACT - an electromagnetic force as we term it - ENERGY - does not ACTUALLY exist as anything "material" at all - it is purely an IMAGINED force - purely as said,the DOMAIN OF A MIND...the electromagnetic force that IS the enitre created universe - IS indeed, a MIND that cause d it all to happen..

 

[Godobeyer]

I don't have to. We aren't anti-science.

.

Torah are ?