firedragon
Veteran Member
Accurately stating your belief is a faith statement. Objectively responding to a question with evidence from scripture and deduction can be deemed an objective response.
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The Baha'is
- Thread starter Riders
- Start date
Accurately stating your belief is a faith statement. Objectively responding to a question with evidence from scripture and deduction can be deemed an objective response.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not want to argue with you over semantics.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to believe what I want to believe.
None of this matters to me anyway so I do not have time to waste on it.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Again, this is not about belief. And if you find it a waste of time mate, it is your problem where you are participating actively, then say "I don't have time". It is your cognitive dissonance.
Cheers. Have a good day.
eik
Active Member
That is because Jesus was the only manifestation (monogenes) of God.My, how things can get misconstrued on these forums.
I never said that. It is a Baha’i belief Jesus was the Son of God. Baha’is do not believe that Baha’u’llah was the Son of God. There is only one Son of God and that is Jesus Christ.
Bahai’s reason for existing is linked to BOTH the affairs of this world and affairs of the kingdom of heaven. It was the same for Jesus when He walked the earth. He cared about how people lived on earth, but He was also concerned about their eternal life in heaven.
Christ certainly did not consider Himself “superior” to all the other Manifestations of God! Jesus did not compare Himself to other Manifestations of God. That Jesus is superior is a Christian teaching. The fact that Jesus had the special title of the Son of God does not mean there is no room for anyone else. Do you know anything about logic?
John 5:38-40 "nor does His word abide in you, because you do not believe the One He sent. You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, et you refuse to come to Me to have life.…"
Jesus was very clear: he was the only manifestation of God and would be the only manifestation of God.
Christians would deem the titles appropriated by Baha’u’llah to himself as blasphemy. It is entirely in the Islamic tradition that mere men can appropriate such titles. Such is unthinkable in Christianity.
Yet there is room in Islam for the Mahdi.
Christianity recognizes only men and God and just one man descended from heaven and who returned to heaven. It's nothing to do with the Koran. It's to do with the fact that any self-proclaimed Mahdi is "just a man," and so any Mahdi type figure is usually deemed a witch or a cult leader, which is why the last Mahdist state in the Sudan was destroyed by the British in 1898.
After all the history of religion in the 19th and 20th centuries is often a history of cults.
Given the relatively unspiritual nature of Islam, with its ritualistic and repetitive prayers and humiliation of the body, and failure to adduce any sort of theology other than conquest of political and religious enemies, I guess it's quite easy to convince people that a better religion than Islam exists, much like many cults have also arisen in the West on the back of heretical versions of Christianity.
In Christianity there have also been many introducers of false doctrines down the ages, from Arius, Marcion and Mani to Charles Taze Russell, All such are regarded with enormous scepticism and seek to captilize on there being heresies within apostolic Christianity.
Frankly the world is now so full of would-be human saviours that it is bordering on ludicrous. If one had not already arisen long before the 19th century, there would be no savior. Thankfully one did.
Matt 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible."
Jesus worked many miracles, even by the concession of his enemies. The same cannot be said for anyone else. Then he rose from the dead. It was a frequent critique of Mahomet himself, and lack of miracles should be alleged against any would-be savior.
Later author is someone whom is posited by Wiki as a final redactor of one or more gospels other than the original author. I don't agree with your Wiki article as representative of what Christians believe about the gospels, or even of scholarship in general. Every scholar has their own opinion and they are renowned for disagreeing with each other.
OK, but that does make Bahá'u'lláh's teachings more authentic than older teachings. It just means we can be more confident of what he actually said.
This surely makes him superior to Bahá'u'lláh?
It is and it isn't. In the bible the Holy Spirit, the Son (i.e. the Word), and the Father are all "divine" and unique characters with the Father as "true God" but the philosophical trinity of Roman Catholicism is largely based on Greek paganism which predated the bible and imported into the bible and not attested by the bible.
Jesus in his pre-incarnate state was more than just a "spirit." He sat on God's throne "with God" John 1:1.
Although Christ is the mirror of God he also has a separate spiritual existence from the Father. He is not just a reflection. That would be the Sabellian or monarchical heresy in Christianity.
It is a problem for Christianity today, that it cannot explain Christian doctrine except by referring to the decisions of Councils. Basic christian doctrines coming from the apostles are about Christ as the eternal and heavenly high priest (letter to the Hebrews), Christ being the fulfillment and end of justification by law and justification by faith (letters to the Romans), and the need to "love one another" (letters of John). Basic doctrine centres on Christ as the sacrifice for sins and means of reconciliation to God.
The letters & gospel of John, and of Paul to the Romans, and to the Hebrews, are the primary sources of apostolic doctrine.
Mahomet was just someone who saw the backwardness of Arabian idolatry and exploited it for his own ends. He may have been encouraged by the Jews to see Byzantium Christianity as heretical in its adoption of the High Trinity. It certainly was and had strayed far from the teachings of Christ. Yet his own religion was no better.
Islam should by rights have been wiped off the face of the earth by the Byzantines in the 7th century, and then again in the 13th Century by the combined forces of the Mongols and the Christians who were far superior to Islam. However the Byzantines were weakened by war and by heresy in the 7th century. Divisions within Christianity, especially as created by the Roman Catholics, who refused to enter into alliances with either Greek Christians or the Mongols, who favoured Nestorianism and Greek Christianity over the Roman version, allowed Islam to prosper and flourish in the 13th century when it was on the point of annilation by the Mongols. Islam merely fills the void that the failure of Christianity creates when it becomes divided or apostate. Today it is hopelessly divided, and in many places apostate, which is why Islam continues to thrive.
Many other heresies once prevalent have been destroyed e.g. Manichaeism, ancient paganism, Zoroastrianism etc, or are now limited to very few adherents. Same would be true for Islam.
As I said, it is better to be a Baha'i than a muslim. Personally I see Baha'i as a transitory religion for those seeking the truth. May be it is a stepping stone for muslims to get to know Christ better. If so, it is good, but Christ does not acknowledge any other son of God or saviour but himself.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus was referring to HIS Dispensation, so Jesus was the only Manifestation of God during HIS Dispensation, because there is onlt one Manifestation of God in each Dispensation.. Jesus never said He would be the only Manifestation of God for all time. That is a Christian belief, but it cannot be true, since Moses and Muhammad were also sent by God. Call them Prophets or Messenger, it does not matter – they came from God with a message.
In fact, Jesus knew He would not be the last Manifestation of God because Jesus said He would send the Comforter and the Sprit of Truth. It is just too bad that Christians interpreted that to mean the Holy Spirit that came at Pentecost, because the Bible does not say that at all.
John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for hedwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Of course it is unthinkable in Christianity, because Christians believe that Jesus is the Only Way to God for all of time. That to me is unthinkable, because it is so arrogant. Baha’is consider Christians saying that Jesus is the Prince of Peace and the King of Kings as trying to take away from Baha’u’llah what is rightfully His and give it to Jesus.
That is because it is according to their Islamic traditions. That has nothing to do with Baha’u’llah. The Bab was a separate Manifestation of God.
Of course I know that. Anyone who is not Jesus is just a man to Christians and anything that is not Christianity is a false religion to Christians, but you are not going to make that belief come true by believing it. It never ceases to amaze me how illogical Christians can be, and how shortsighted, and how indoctrinated. You might be able to brush aside the Baha’i Faith for the time being, as long as it is small, but you have never been able to and never will be able to sweep Muhammad under the carpet, no matter how big your broom is. Muhammad and Islam are here to stay.
And you cannot even see that you are doing the SAME exact thing that the Jews did when Jesus appeared, they tried to deny Him and sweep Him under the carpet, but it didn’t work, did it? And now all the older religions are trying to sweep Baha’u’llah under the carpet, but that won’t work either because His Revelation of too BIG to sweep under the carpet, in spite of the fact that Baha’is are small in number.
Back in the early 19th century, Abdu’l-Baha told the Baha’is:
WE MUST NOT BE DISCOURAGED BY THE SMALLNESS OF OUR NUMBERS.
He said in one of his talks:
“When Christ appeared He manifested Himself at Jerusalem. He called men to the Kingdom of God, He invited them to Eternal Life and He told them to acquire human perfections. The Light of Guidance was shed forth by that radiant Star, and He at length gave His life in sacrifice for humanity.
All through His blessed life He suffered oppression and hardship, and in spite of all this humanity was His enemy!
They denied Him, scorned Him, ill-treated Him and cursed Him. He was not treated like a man—and yet in spite of all this He was the embodiment of pity and of supreme goodness and love……..
It was not until many years after His ascension that they knew who He was, and at the time of His ascension He had only a very few disciples; only a comparatively small following believed His precepts and followed His laws. The ignorant said, ‘Who is this individual; He has only a few disciples!’ But those who knew said: ‘He is the Sun who will shine in the East and in the West, He is the Manifestation who shall give life to the world’.
What the first disciples had seen the world realized later.” Paris Talks, pp, 116-117
Keep going. Christians trying to sweep Muhammad under the carpet and use the same broom to try to sweep the Bab and Baha’u’llah under the carpet is like trying to sweep God under the carpet. You can try, but you only imagine you got rid of them. God knows better.
Baha’u’llah also performed many miracles, He wrote a book of miracles He performed, but He hid it because he did not want people to believe in Him because of His miracles. Baha’u’llah told some Muslims who called Him a false prophet that He would perform any miracle they asked Him to do if they would accept that He was a Messenger of God, but when the day came, they did not show up. I guess they did not really want to know.
Thank God for the internet, I learn so much I never knew before:
Famous Miracles in the Baha’i Faith
You “believe” that Jesus rose from the dead and I believe that pink elephants fly over my house every night at midnight because it is written in a child’s storybook. You have no more evidence of what you believe than I do. Anyone can write a story with characters who were supposed to have done certain things, proving they ever did them is another matter altogether. Of course, we have documented evidence of what the Bab and Baha’u’llah did because it is modern history and people other than Baha’is witnessed it.
What I mean by authentic is that we know exactly what Baha’u’llah wrote since He wrote it in His Own Pen and stamped it with His official seal. The original scriptures are in a vault in Haifa, Israel. His primary works have been translated into over 800 languages, and anyone who can read Arabic or Persian can read them in their original language.
There is no way we can ever know what Jesus said, since He did not write anything. Not only that, we do not know who the gospel authors were.
No, because Baha’u’llah was also pre-existent in the spiritual world, as were all the prophets.
The personalities (souls) of ALL of the Manifestations of God were pre-existent:
(96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being. (Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)
The Baha’i Faith is anything but a stepping stone. It is the fulfillment of the Promises of all the religions of the past. Of course this is only according to Baha’i beliefs, and everyone is free to judge for themselves and believe what they want to. That is one reason God gave us free will.
“The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Meditate upon this, O ye beloved of God, and let your ears be attentive unto His Word, so that ye may, by His grace and mercy, drink your fill from the crystal waters of constancy, and become as steadfast and immovable as the mountain in His Cause.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13
Please note what was said about Jesus back when He walked the earth, as noted above. The ignorant said, ‘Who is this individual; He has only a few disciples!’ The Baha’i Faith is still small, but size of a religion has nothing to do with whether it is true.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
There will come a time when everyone will know who Baha’u’llah was, but it will just take time, just as it took time for people to realize who Jesus was.
eik
Active Member
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6.
It only takes someone with limited intelligence to realize that the idolatry entailed in Arabian paganism was absurd. This was 6 centuries after Christ, and here were the Arabians still behaving like Canaanites 1000 years BC.
Just because Mahomet realized that paganism was wrong and bettered by both Judaism and by Christianity does not mean to say he was appointed by God to any divine mission other than pointing out paganism was wrong.
Moses had done that 2000 years before Mahomet.
What Mahomet did was create a cult based upon himself as "divine leader with a message." I should suppose his followers elevated him to "divine prophet" but we're not actually sure if he believed it of himself. Islam is a political cult with a very crude religion based on repetitive prayers and ritual humiliation of the body, and a leader who died (in fact poisoned by a woman whose husband he had killed). Zaynab bint Al-Harith.
Which the spirit of God, not Mahomet, and was promised to his disciples and claimed by his disciples on Jesus' resurrection. Mahomet is 600 years too late.
Yes it does, because it was promised to his disciples.
Jhn 16:7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."
Christians or at least the ones that matter, such as me, will go further and label all muslims as pagans and their prophets as false prophets.
Our belief is true and only we understand the bible. You do not. The Koran is your book. The bible is ours.
As Jesus said:
"You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." John 4:22.
Sure they are here to stay, but they will all die and face the judgement of Christ, not Mahomet or Baha’u’llah.
Baha’u’llah is frankly irrelevant to anyone not an unbeliever or a muslim. Only these could be seduced by his endless waffle.
You can preach Christ to the muslims if you want. But unfortunately, as it is (yet another) false Christ, you may not receive any benefit from doing so.
Christ said "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." Matt 24:24.
Except that by Jesus it is possible to know God, whereas by Islam it is only possible to engage in humanistic philosophy about the unknowable Allah.
2 Tim 1:12 "For I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that Day."
I have already told you Baha’u’llah has nothing to say to Christians. He repudiates the gospel message of all four gospels, just like Mahomet, and all of the espistles of the apostles. In fact he is someone whom Christians are told to "cast out" in no uncertain terms.
Titus 3:10 "Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition, knowing that such a man is corrupt and sinful; he is self-condemned.…"
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
According to my beliefs, that only applied to the Dispensation of Jesus Christ.
Dispensation
- the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
- an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
- a divinely appointed order or age:
Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com
According to my beliefs, the “the Revelation identified with Bahá’u’lláh abrogates unconditionally all the Dispensations gone before it,” God Passes By, p. 100
That means by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is now according to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, not according to the gospel of Jesus.
God passed by again in the 19th century, although most people missed Him because they are so mired in their older religious traditions they cannot even see what is right in front of their faces.
Time marches on and so does God, unless someone is mired in the past, like Christians are. ‘
It is so arrogant of Christians to actually believe that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to come to God. If that was actually true, that would mean that 71% of people in the world have NO WAY to God. What about all the Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, and Muslims, not to mention the smaller religions like the Baha’i Faith that were divinely revealed? Well, according to Christianity, they can just go to hell in a bread basket.
It only takes someone with limited intelligence to realize that 24% of people in the world who are Muslims cannot ALL BE WRONG. It also takes a Christian who believes that religion is their own private property.
“Those who would have men believe that religion is their own private property once more bring their efforts to bear against the Sun of Truth: they resist the Command of God; they invent calumnies, not having arguments against it, neither proofs. They attack with masked faces, not daring to come forth into the light of day.
No one casts stones at a tree without fruit. No one tries to extinguish a lamp without light! …
And I say unto you that no calumny is able to prevail against the Light of God; it can only result in causing it to be more universally recognized. If a cause were of no significance, who would take the trouble to work against it!.”
Abdul-Baha, Paris Talks
What Muhammad did was reveal a universal religion of God that superseded Christianity and will soon leave Christianity behind on the dust.
I did not say that Muhammad was the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth; I said that Baha’u’llah was the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe but your BELIEF will not make anything a reality.
Christians should be ashamed to say that, but those who say it are too arrogant to have any shame, or any humility. I would much rather be an atheist than a Christian, and of course Christianity is the reason for most atheists.
Your belief is not true if you understand the Bible. The Muslims are one up on Christians in that regard since they have a LATER Revelation from God.
The Qur’an is not MY BOOK. I am a Baha’i, not a Muslim. The Writings of Baha’u’llah are my books.
Christ cannot judge anyone, only God can judge. We will all die and face the judgment of God, and it will not be a good day for Christians who have rejected the three Manifestations of God who came after Jesus.
Baha’u’llah is relevant to God, and that is ALL that really matters. If not one person had recognized Him as a ‘Manifestation of God, He would still be one.
Do you actually read anything I write? How many times do I have to tell you that Baha’u’llah is NOT relevant to Muslims, because they like everyone else who is not a Baha’i, rejected Baha’u’llah.
Only selfish people who care ONLY about their own personal salvation, people who could not care less about the state of the world, could ever be seduced by Christianity.
I do not preach Christ to Muslims and I don’t have to, because Muslims KNOW who Christ really was, unlike Christians who believe all the false beliefs about Jesus that were fed to them by the Church.
That is exactly what happened, but that does not mean that Baha’u’llah was a false Christ. I guess logic was not your area of study. I have been over this so many times that I have it saved in a Word document.
The fact that many men have made the claim to be the return of Christ does not mean that the claim of Baha’u’llah was false, logically speaking. It is the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization to say that because most claimants were false all were false.
Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.
Faulty generalization - Wikipedia
If you assume, without any evidence (not having researched the claim of Baha’u’llah) that Baha’u’llah was a false prophet you have based your conclusion on “insufficient evidence,” essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.
Jesus talked about prophets that would yield good fruits and said “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”
Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Anyone who knows anything about Baha’u’llah knows He had good fruits.
Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: FRUIT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
By Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah, and the other Manifestations of God, we can know God, but we can only know God’s Will for this age from Baha’u’llah.
Baha’u’llah has nothing to say that most Christians will ever listen to because they are mired in the past, forever stuck on Jesus. Baha’u’llah knew what the gospels meant better than any Christian will ever know, because He unsealed the Book.
Ever since the Bible was written Christians have been shooting in the dark trying to figure out what it meant. If Christians had been able to understand what the Bible means, they would not have had to hold councils like the Council of Nicaea to try to agree upon things like the nature of Jesus, whether He was God or a man. If Christians had been able to understand what the Bible means Daniel would not have said this:
Daniel Chapter 12: 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
What this says is that many would run to and fro, not understanding the meaning of the Bible. The words would be closed up and sealed until the time of the end because nobody could really understand what they mean. But those that waited the 2,300 years would know….
The "Book" was intended to be sealed up until the time of the end, until the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days came. The 2,300 years came in 1844 and the book was unsealed by Baha’u’llah. That math is explained in Some Answered Questions, 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL.
We do not have to run to and fro anymore. Unsealing the Book means we can now understand the true meaning of the Bible. By reading the Baha’i Writings that explain the true meaning of the Bible, we can understand what the Bible means.
eik
Active Member
So, you nullify the word for God for the sake of your own tradition. You're no different from the Jews condemned by Christ: Mark 7:13
"Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. " Matt 24;25.
You have made the words of Christ disappear. Congratulations.
I disagree as in every country there are Christians who witness for Christ. Therefore the majority reject Christ, because they choose to.
Yes they will go to hell, but only if there are judged as wicked by God. There is no favouritism with God. For all will be judged as pagans who know not Christ. The only sure route to heaven is by knowing Christ.
I disagree. Just think, when Christ was born, around 99.9% of people in the world were pagans and they were all wrong by common consent of everyone today.
If only 24% are wrong today, that's an improvement.
But baha'is and muslims calumniate Christ of the gospels as they call him a liar. They pretend that it's his words that are inaccurately stated, but they have can offer no proof of it. We know the truth: we know you calumniate Christ because you deny the fundamental doctrines of Christianity.
Not if I have anything to do with it.
On the contrary it will make my salvation a reality.
Strange as atheism implies disbelief in God. As Christ said atheism is caused by wickedness, wealth and the evil within, and by not understanding the gospel. In any case, there are many muslim atheists who believe in nothing but in riches and wealth. You see a lot of them in London, Dubai, etc driving flash motors. Not much to do with religion.
A very fallible revelation for the most part purloined from Christianity (i.e. belief in hell, the devil, righteousness etc), or else Judaism (justifcation by law), but scattered with a liberal dose of self-indulgent laws (4 wives endless maids etc).
But Baha't accepts Mahomet, and more importantly than that, the very concept of endless revelations of self-appointed "prophets" that is entirely antithetic to the bible.
Unfortunately for you Christ sits on the throne of God (check out Revelations Ch 1). Also Dan 7:13,14.
Anyone can be a manifestation of God to muslims, as they understand nothing.
OK, but Baha’u’llah accepts Mahomet, which is strange. In fact Baha’u’llah is an odd fellow, as he seems to want to embrace forebears who clearly would never have countenanced him.
Come to think of it Baha’u’llah, for all his pretended persecution, never wanted for anything financially. Not did Mahomet.
Adrianople residence:
Baháʼu'lláh - Wikipedia
A strange thing to say as God takes care of the world, where Christians are not called to that.
No I have based my claim on what Christ himself said, who deprecated anyone who detracted from his message. Baha’u’llah denies salvation by faith in Christ alone.
Not good enough where Christ was perfect. Whatever his fruits: that he should presume to emulate Christ is perverse, even blasphemy. He simply had no idea who Christ was because he was steeped in Islamic propaganda. You can't expect an unsaved person to know Christ.
Nicea was about reconciling philosophy with Christianity, not Christianity itself. It was called where too much erroneous Greek philosophy had infiltrated the church and caused disagreements.
It was in many senses a political stunt which did not resolve much, accept allow the Emperor Constantine to prevail over the church (which was a political gesture).
E. H. Cheney, expounded ‘Abdu’l-Baha’s views on Daniel:
"‘Abdu’l-Baha attempts to find Daniel’s prophecy fulfilled in the Baha’i religion, using Daniel chapters 8 and 9. In Daniel 8:14, the 2,300 “evenings and mornings” are wrongly interpreted by Baha’i’s as 2,300 years. The Hebrew term referred to “evening and morning” sacrifices (see 9:21; Ex. 29:38-42), which would be 1,150 days or about three years, not 2,300 years. The prophecy in Daniel 8 deals directly with Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the eighth ruler of the Syrian dynasty during the time of the Maccabees. The “2,300 evenings and mornings” were fulfilled within a few years, some 2,000 years before Baha’is even existed. As the NIV text note (Zondervan Study Bible) for Daniel 8:14 reads,
"The 2,300 evenings and mornings probably refer to the number of sacrifices consecutively offered on 1,150 days, the interval between the desecration of the Lord’s altar and its reconsecration by Judas Maccabeus on Kislev 25, 165 B.C. The pagan altar set up by Antiochus on Kislev 25, 168, was apparently installed almost 2 months after the Lord’s altar was removed, accounting for the difference between 1,095 days (an exact three years) and the 1,150 specified here.""
A Critical Look at the Baha’i Faith – Part 2 By: John Ankerberg Show
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I guess you still do not understand what a Dispensation is. That means by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is no longer according to the gospel of Jesus, and the REASON it is no longer according to the gospel of Jesus is because God has sent another Messenger, who revealed God’s Will for the age we are living in.
I have not made the words of Christ disappear. The gospel of Jesus will never disappear. Only the former Dispensations have been abrogated. The religions themselves have not been abrogated.
“Let no one, however, mistake my purpose. The Revelation, of which Bahá’u’lláh is the source and center, abrogates none of the religions that have preceded it, nor does it attempt, in the slightest degree, to distort their features or to belittle their value. It disclaims any intention of dwarfing any of the Prophets of the past, or of whittling down the eternal verity of their teachings. It can, in no wise, conflict with the spirit that animates their claims, nor does it seek to undermine the basis of any man’s allegiance to their cause. Its declared, its primary purpose is to enable every adherent of these Faiths to obtain a fuller understanding of the religion with which he stands identified, and to acquire a clearer apprehension of its purpose. It is neither eclectic in the presentation of its truths, nor arrogant in the affirmation of its claims. Its teachings revolve around the fundamental principle that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is progressive, not final. Unequivocally and without the least reservation it proclaims all established religions to be divine in origin, identical in their aims, complementary in their functions, continuous in their purpose, indispensable in their value to mankind.”
The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, pp, 57-58
Fundamental Principle of Religious Truth
I disagree. I believe that the only sure route to heaven is by Baha’u’llah. Can you prove otherwise?
"To 'get to heaven' as you say is dependent on two things--faith in the Manifestation of God in His Day, in other words in this age in Bahá'u'lláh; and good deeds, in other words living to the best of our ability a noble life and doing unto others as we would be done by. But we must always remember that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore He can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, even the lowliest if He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, January 12, 1957)
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File
So according to this letter, which carries authority in the Baha’i Faith, Christians have no guarantee of heaven unless they recognize Baha’u’llah and put their faith in Him.
I have scriptures that Baha’u’llah wrote that support my beliefs regarding heaven and hell, just as you have the New Testament scriptures supporting YOUR beliefs.
pagan: a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=pagan+means
When Christ was born, 99.9% of people in the world were NOT pagans, according to the definition of a pagan, and they were NOT all wrong by common consent of everyone today. There were other religions in the world that predated Christianity. For example, the Jews believed in Moses and in God, and that Moses was a Prophet of God.
The 24% of people in the world who are Muslims are not wrong about Muhammad, but according to my beliefs, 99.9% of people in the world are wrong, since only 0.1% have as yet recognized Baha’u’llah.
No, we do NOT. We just disagree with the Christian interpretation of the gospels. Jesus was not a liar and we never called Jesus a liar.
I believe that the doctrines of Christianity are false because they misrepresented what Jesus taught.
“It has long been generally believed that Jesus Christ was a unique incarnation of God such as had never before appeared in religious history and would never appear again. This tenet made the acceptance of any later Prophet impossible to a Christian. Yet there is nothing in Christ’s own statements, as recorded in the Gospel, to support this view, and it was not generally held during His lifetime.
Another opinion which Christians universally hold about Christ is that His teaching was absolute and final. They believe that if the Truth were partly withheld from them for a time because they could not bear it, it was divulged at Pentecost in its fullness and that now nothing remains to be revealed. But there is nothing in the account of Pentecost to suggest such an interpretation and there is no one who will believe that Jesus would have named the false prophets as characteristic of His age if this warning was to be followed by an immediate release of all Truth to the Church. What the Bible shows is rather a succession of teachers—Abraham, Moses and Christ, each measuring His Revelation to the needs and maturity of His authors….
Many of these false interpretations involve repudiation of the Word of God in favor of the word of man. This impious act is so craftily performed, with such an air of humility, that it might escape the notice of the most sincere and devout of worshippers. Probably few churchgoers realize today that the Gospel of Christ as known to the few in the pulpit is wholly different from the Gospel which Christ preached in Galilee as recorded in the Bible.
In spite of Christ’s promise of further revelation of Truth, through the Comforter, through His own return, through the Spirit of Truth, the Christian Church regards His revelation as final, and itself as the sole trustee of true religion. There is no room for the Supreme Redeemer of the Bible to bring in great changes for the establishment of the Kingdom of God. In fact this Kingdom is often described as a world-wide Church.
Having thus closed God’s Covenant with the Bible, sacred history—God-directed—came to an end, and secular history, having no sense of divine destiny nor unity, began…..
Well might Christ warn His followers that false prophets would arise and misinterpret His teachings so as to delude even the most earnest and intelligent of His believers: from early times Christians have disputed about Christian truth in councils, in sects, in wars.
To sum up, if Christians say “our acts may be wrong,” they say truly. If they say “however our Gospel is right” they are quite wrong. The false prophets have corrupted the Gospel as successfully as they have the deeds and lives of Christian people.”
Christ and Baha'u'llah, The False Prophets, pp. 25-30
(Continued on next post)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What are you going to do about it?
That is what you believe, but beliefs are just beliefs, they can never be proven. Salvation in the Christian sense is irrelevant to me because I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe there is anything to be saved from. However, I do believe in eternal life (everlasting life), and I believe that is attained by belief in Baha’u’llah.
“The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183
There was a time in history when eternal life was only through Jesus. During the Dispensation of Jesus Christ, those who believed in Jesus had eternal life, and those who did not believe in Jesus were considered spiritually dead by Jesus.
John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
But time marches on and so does God. According to my beliefs, we are living in the Dispensation of Baha’u’llah, so eternal life is now conferred by believing in Baha’u’llah, so who those who have not recognized Baha’u’llah are spiritually dead, and those who have recognized Baha’u’llah will have everlasting life.
Of course, it is an absolute requirement for Baha’is to also believe in Jesus and Muhammad, and all the other Manifestations of God.
Atheists are not wicked unless they have wicked behavior. Most atheists are atheists because they have rejected Christianity and they do not see any other evidence for God’s existence.
By your standards, there would also be Christian atheists, because there are many Christians who believe in nothing but riches and wealth.
Keep going with your calumny on Muslims, it won’t change reality and it won’t eliminate Islam. Islam is here to stay because it is a religion of God, and no religion of God can ever be eradicated.
As the quote says above, “What the Bible shows is rather a succession of teachers—Abraham, Moses and Christ, each measuring His Revelation to the needs and maturity of His authors…”. Abraham and Moses were not self-appointed Prophets anymore than Jesus was.
Unfortunately for you, those verses refer to Baha’u’llah. Jesus sits on the throne of God in heaven.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks
But Jesus never intended to return and rule on earth, as Christians believe.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Muslims understand more than Christians because they have a LATER Revelation from God.
Baha’u’llah lived most of His life after He received His Revelation in 1852 until he died in1892, in banishment, exile and imprisonment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baháʼu'lláh
How do you believe God takes care of the world? I do not see God doing anything anywhere.
Unfortunately for Christians, we are not living in the Dispensation of Christ anymore so salvation is no longer in Christ.
“Such is the teaching which God bestoweth on you, a teaching that will deliver you from all manner of doubt and perplexity, and enable you to attain unto salvation in both this world and in the next. He, verily, is the Ever-Forgiving, the Most Bountiful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 87
Baha’u’llah denies salvation by faith in Christ alone because salvation is no longer in Christ alone. Baha’u’llah came to bestow salvation upon all of humanity.
“I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.” Gleanings, p. 243
Baha’u’llah did not presume to emulate Christ. Baha’u’llah did not need to be saved because He was a Manifestation of God so He was sinless, just like Moses, Muhammad and Jesus.
Anyone can use the Bible to try to prove their beliefs are true. If you look on the internet you will notice that it is only the Christians criticize and even attack Baha’is, and not the Baha’is who criticize and attack Christians because we don’t have to, since we do not see Christianity as competition. What Christians consider an attack on their beliefs is simply our disagreement with Christian beliefs. We do not disagree with anything that Christians do not claim to believe, so we do not misrepresent Christian beliefs as Christians often misrepresent Baha’i beliefs. Moreover, we do not appeal to outside sources in order to strengthen our position; we only appeal to the gospels.
“Our methods are different, we do not attack, neither calumniate; we do not wish to dispute with them; we bring forth proofs and arguments; we invite them to confute our statements. They cannot answer us, but instead, they write all they can think of against the Divine Messenger, Bahá’u’lláh.
Do not let your hearts be troubled by these defamatory writings! Obey the words of Bahá’u’lláh and answer them not. Rejoice, rather, that even these falsehoods will result in the spread of the truth. When these slanders appear inquiries are made, and those who inquire are led into a knowledge of the Faith…….
And I say unto you that no calumny is able to prevail against the Light of God; it can only result in causing it to be more universally recognized. If a cause were of no significance, who would take the trouble to work against it!
But always the greater the cause the more do enemies arise in larger and larger numbers to attempt its overthrow! The brighter the light the darker the shadow! Our part it is to act in accordance with the teaching of Bahá’u’lláh in humility and firm steadfastness.” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks
Much of what Christians put out about Baha’i is false or distorted information, just as Christians attack Islam. Do Muslims attack Christianity? No, they just disagree with certain Christian beliefs.
An unbiased accurate website about the Baha’i Faith is this one:
BBC - Religion: Bahá'í
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
How's things going with your studies of the Baha'i Faith? What have you learned?
Riders
Well-Known Member
Nothing She was not able to get a group together for me. The guy here who said he would attend if he had time was on a different time zone could not go and she said unless I could bring a friend we could not have a big enough group to do it. So we had to forget about it..
Cherub786
Member
One of the [many] problems I have with the Baha'i religion is their idea of a one world government and the fact that its more of a political organization that is hoping to be that one world government. Research about the Universal House of Justice they have in Haifa. This institution is meant to be the supreme executive authority once the one world government is achieved. Shoghi Effendi wrote about this one world government in World Order of Bahaullah.
The Baha'i religion claims to be the embodiment of the legacy of Biblical religion, as they acknowledge the ancient patriarchs and prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Elijah, Jesus and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his family). However, the Baha'i religion does not possess that radical, apocalyptic theme that characterized the prophesy of John the Baptist, Jesus of Nazareth, and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his family). That to me is a sure sign that the Baha'i religion is not heavenly, it is not from the Lord God.
The Baha'i religion claims to be the embodiment of the legacy of Biblical religion, as they acknowledge the ancient patriarchs and prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Elijah, Jesus and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his family). However, the Baha'i religion does not possess that radical, apocalyptic theme that characterized the prophesy of John the Baptist, Jesus of Nazareth, and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his family). That to me is a sure sign that the Baha'i religion is not heavenly, it is not from the Lord God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Bahai Faith is not "the embodiment of the legacy of Biblical religion" just because we acknowledge the prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Elijah, Jesus, and other Biblical figures. The Baha'i Faith is an independent religion based upon the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, not based upon any Revelations of the former religions. It grew out is Islam just as Christianity grew our of Judaism, but it is a separate chapter in the eternal religion of God, which we believe is all one religion revealed over the course of time.
Baha'is believe that every Messenger of God has a unique mission and message for the world. The unity of mankind which is associated with building a new world order was the mission and message of Baha'u'llah. According to the Baha'i Faith, this is what Jesus was referring to when He said "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.
Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7
Cherub786
Member
In effect you are saying God's Message to humanity has changed over time?
I believe the universal truth contained in the message of the ancient Prophets is just as true and valid today, and will continue to remain true and valid until the end of the world.
As for the Baha'i religion, I see that it prides itself on being progressive and rational, and that was in fact the reason for its break with Islam, and how it convinced many Muslims to leave Islam and embrace a new religion. But while the principles and teachings of the Baha'i religion were certainly progressive and keeping with the times in the 19th century, they certainly aren't in the 21st century. That is the problem which the founder of the Baha'i religion failed to anticipate. And the problem is, being a religion with its own codified law and immutable principles, it cannot break free of its 19th century context. So ironically it is guilty of the same "flaw" it imputed to Islam.
Certainly, Jesus did not intend in those words what the objective of the Baha'i religion is. The historical Jesus of Nazareth was an apocalyptic Jewish prophet who preached a Gospel of repentance and eager expectation of a divine intervention that would establish a Heavenly kingdom on Earth through the agency of Angelic forces. It was not intended to endorse any kind of political, human effort to unify the world under a single state and administration.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God's Purpose for humanity was always the same but the unity of mankind could not be realized until the present age and that is why the message of the unity of mankind was not delivered by Baha'u'llah until this age.
“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it......”
The Promised Day is Come, p. 116
God’s Purpose
Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah came to fulfill the Promises of the ancient Prophets in the Bible. Those Promises, which are revealed in prophecies, were contained in the Bible, OT and NT. For example:
Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace because world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Baha’u’llah set up a system of government and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. They will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).
Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah came to usher in the Kingdom of God on earth that will stand forever.
Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
What Isaiah 11:6-9 this means to a Baha’i is that In the future diverse religions and races will become comrades, friends and companions. The contentions of races, the differences of religions, and the barriers between nations will be completely removed, and all will attain perfect union and reconciliation. Eventually, there will be only one religion, the religion of God.
Isaiah 11:6-9 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
I believe John 10:16 refers to the unity of mankind.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd..
No religion can ever break free of the context in which it was born. I do not know what laws you believe are outdated? What you mean by immutable principles?
We have the Universal House of Justice (UHJ) that can legislate on the Laws to keep in step with the times as Baha'u'llah provided for this institution.
I do not interpret the New Testament that way. I believe this is a misinterpretation Christians made, and maybe Muslims followed suit. I believe that there will be divine assistance but it is humans who will do the legwork of building the Kingdom of God on earth. It will not be a political system, as secular governments will remain separate from the Baha'i institutions, unless they voluntarily choose to adopt Baha'i principles. This is my understanding; other Baha'is might have other opinions.
“The Faith which this order serves, safeguards and promotes is … essentially supernatural, supranational, entirely non-political, non-partisan, and diametrically opposed to any policy or school of thought that seeks to exalt any particular race, class or nation. It is free from any form of ecclesiasticism, has neither priesthood nor rituals, and is supported exclusively by voluntary contributions made by its avowed adherents. Though loyal to their respective governments, though imbued with the love of their own country, and anxious to promote at all times, its best interests, the followers of the Bahá’í Faith, nevertheless, viewing mankind as one entity, and profoundly attached to its vital interests, will not hesitate to subordinate every particular interest, be it personal, regional or national, to the over-riding interests of the generality of mankind, knowing full well that in a world of interdependent peoples and nations the advantage of the part is best to be reached by the advantage of the whole, and that no lasting result can be achieved by any of the component parts if the general interests of the entity itself are neglected….”
The Promised Day Is Come, vi - vii
Cherub786
Member
Okay, but there are also prophecies in the Bible and from the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم which predict the appearance of, and warn strongly against, false prophets. For example:
لاَ تَقُومُ السَّاعَةُ حَتَّى يُبْعَثَ دَجَّالُونَ كَذَّابُونَ قَرِيبٌ مِنْ ثَلاَثِينَ كُلُّهُمْ يَزْعُمُ أَنَّهُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ
The Hour shall not be established until there arise nearly thirty deceivers and liars, each of them claiming 'I am a messenger of God'
(Hadith)
وَإِنَّهُ سَيَكُونُ فِي أُمَّتِي كَذَّابُونَ ثَلاَثُونَ كُلُّهُمْ يَزْعُمُ أَنَّهُ نَبِيٌّ
There shall come, in my community, thirty liars, each of them claiming 'I am a prophet'
(Hadith)
We believe that Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri is included in the list of those thirty or so false prophets. That too is a prophecy he fulfilled, isn't it?The Hour shall not be established until there arise nearly thirty deceivers and liars, each of them claiming 'I am a messenger of God'
(Hadith)
وَإِنَّهُ سَيَكُونُ فِي أُمَّتِي كَذَّابُونَ ثَلاَثُونَ كُلُّهُمْ يَزْعُمُ أَنَّهُ نَبِيٌّ
There shall come, in my community, thirty liars, each of them claiming 'I am a prophet'
(Hadith)
But isn't the title Sar Shalom, Prince of Peace, as it appears in the Book of Isaiah, the prophesied title of Jesus the Messiah? Or do Baha'is reject that?
Cherub786
Member
Specifically, the Baha'i position on homosexuality is clearly against the modern, liberal values of the 21st century, and also its teaching that it is forbidden to elect women to the Universal House of Justice.
Now my point is, why is the Baha'i religion critical of Islam and in the 19th century told us "you're values and laws are contrary to the values of today" and so capitalized on that spirit of modernism and progressiveness, but when the same criticism is leveled against the Baha'i religion, that it is not compatible with the widespread, liberal values of the 21st century, you answer "no religion can break free of the context in which it was born"? Isn't that a double standard?
Cherub786
Member
Another example is the Baha'i cosmology.:
Bahá’u’lláh says, “The universe hath neither beginning nor ending.” He has set aside the elaborate theories and exhaustive opinions of scientists and material philosophers by the simple statement, “There is no beginning, no ending.”
Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Pages 218-220
Now of course, the founder of the Baha'i religion made this statement in the 19th century, imagining it to be in accord with the generally held view of science and philosophy of the time. But that was before the Big Bang theory came along and affirmed Islamic cosmology that the universe has a beginning, and that it is not eternal.
Another way in which Baha'i religion is incompatible with the liberal values of the 21st century is that the administration of the organization does not allow individual Baha'is to publish works on the religion without authorization. In essence, they stifle the independence of their members, which is classic cult-like behavior.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The fact that many men have made the claim to be the return of Christ does not mean that the claim of Baha’u’llah was false, logically speaking. It is the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization to say that because most claimants were false all were false.
Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.
Faulty generalization - Wikipedia
If you assume, without any evidence (not having researched the claim of Baha’u’llah) that Baha’u’llah was a false prophet you have based your conclusion on “insufficient evidence,” essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.
The prophecy was fulfilled alright, because many false prophets have come into the world. However, obviously I do not believe that Baha'u'llah was one of them.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe about Baha'u'llah, along with the Christians.
I am a firm believer in free will so I never try to talk people out of their beliefs. I just clarify information and answer questions if people ask.
No, I do not believe that the Prince of Peace was referring to Jesus.
I believe that Jesus was 'a Messiah" but He was not 'the Messiah' of the latter days, because Jesus never intended to come back to earth (John 17:4, John 17:11, John 18:36, John 18:37).
Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
As I said before, Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace because world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Baha’u’llah set up a system of government and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. They will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).
Isaiah 9:6-7 cannot refer to Jesus because Jesus disclaimed being the Mighty God when He called Himself “the Son of God” (John 5:18-47) and in those verses Jesus repudiates the charge that He claimed equality with God. Jesus disclaimed being the everlasting Father when He said, “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28) and Jesus disclaimed being the Prince of Peace when He said, “I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). Jesus disclaimed bearing the government upon His shoulder when He said to “rend onto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's” (Mark 12:17, Matthew 22:21). Jesus disclaimed that He would establish a kingdom where he would rule with judgment and justice forever when He said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36).