Something to learn about. The reality that we can examine and study.
Unguided processes do not equal fluke.
No explanation means we don't know.
Do you believe that all things that you do not know are not real? Think about the logic required there.
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The Believabliltiy of Evolution
- Thread starter rrobs
- Start date
Unguided processes do not equal fluke.
No explanation means we don't know.
Do you believe that all things that you do not know are not real? Think about the logic required there.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Of course they do. If you created a computer by tossing a bag of apples in the air that would be a fluke. Take away the apples and the air and yourself and you have what we are supposed to believe about the origins of the universe.
It's actually quite amusing and amazing how gullible we are expected to be about such an important topic.
But it's the humanistic religion of choice.
cladking
Well-Known Member
Remarkable!!!
You're not only right but you are right by definition.
Nevermind the pesky little fact you can't predict anything nor explain any anomaly. From your perspective anomalies are invisible because only the inevitable exists.
If I created it, then it would not be unguided even if the process of that creation was unknown to me. The creation of a computer from a randomly tossed bag of apples is a rather silly sort of example and not at all consistent with anything claimed using science. The tossed bag of apples computer would be a miracle.
The only thing that can be said about what came before this universe from a factual position is that we do not know. What you claim to be amusing is more of what appears to be your misconception of what is said using science and not from any facts.
Are you claiming that trying to understand observations that are consistent with existing knowledge and evidence is a religion?
cladking
Well-Known Member
It is when you know you are right!
If I created it, there would be evidence of me, the apples, the tossing, etc.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
So would a dot of infinite energy forming all that exists.
Of course it's a miracle. To believe it just happened by chance is absolutely absurd.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Maybe you missed the part about there being no apples, and no you.
ppp
Well-Known Member
You just cannot get over the fact that no one is proposing that something came from nothing except for you.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
There's no other plausible explanation given.
cladking
Well-Known Member
Yet you believe the entire universe was in a space with no dimensions at all.
Now you'll correct me and say it was not quite no dimensions at all when our mathematics can first model it. It would never occur to anyone that there might be another explanation.
ppp
Well-Known Member
There is no explanation given. Period. That is what you cannot deal with.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I deal with it fine, by coming up with the logical explanation.. the universe was designed.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
And why doesn't the designer need a designer of his own?
ppp
Well-Known Member
ppp
Well-Known Member
Since that does not deal with your false belief that the big bang theory claims that the matter energy, fields, and forces that comprise the universe, you are not dealing with it "fine". You are not dealing with it at all.
gnostic
The Lost One
This part - the part highlighted in red - is merely a claim, not an explanation.
And claiming that universe being “designed”, “would require a Designer”, is also not an explanation.
An explanation would offer more detail. You can neither prove what you have claimed and certainly ain’t being logical, nor have you ever demonstrate the claim.
“Demonstrating” is about position with observable EVIDENCE, which you clearly haven’t done.
So, not only you haven’t shown that the universe is “designed”, there have never been any evidence to support the existence of this Designer.
I remember correctly, you were the one compared the Designer of Intelligent Design to an artist with paintings:
While it is true that artist do “draw” and “paint”, your artist analogy have numbers of major flaws, when you compare with Intelligent Design.
For one, artists are real people, not imaginary “invisible” entities powerful enough to create life on Earth, the planet itself, the Solar System, and the Universe.
Second, artists drawing or painting pictures are not the same as “Designer designing” or “Creator creating” life or the universe...so you are using false equivalence, to argue as artist is the same as ID Designer.
The artist is faulty analog, just like other analogies used by ID creationists, eg computer engineer designing computers, computer programmer writing computer codes, or car manufacturers designing new models of cars, or the Watchmaker analogy.
Artists, computer engineers, programmers, car manufacturers and the Watchmaker are not trying to make life, entire planet or the Universe itself, so using these analogies prove nothing at all, let alone proving the Designer being a real entity.
3rd point. Like I said, artists re real people whether they are past artists or those artists living today.
For example, you could demonstrate the living artist, by meeting him, watch him work, or as many people today have smartphones could record themselves on video.
Plus, in this day, almost everyone around the world have evidence of these existence, including artists, eg birth certificates, driver licenses, passports, bank records of some sorts, tax records, social security numbers (if they lived in the US), deeds to houses if they are homeowners, utility bills, education records, qualifications, etc.
These are all evidence, of each artist’s existence, which often include personal information, including name, address, phone numbers. The birth certificates would also include names of parents, and you also track them down.
What evidence that can demonstrate the existence of God, Creator or ID’s Designer?
There are none. Zero. Zilch. Nonexistent.
Designer and God is nonexistent entity, based on imagination, belief, speculation or worse, based on delusion.
No, Wildswanderer. You can neither logical prove the Designer, nor demonstrate his existence with evidence.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
If I drop my keys in a vacuum, they will fall to earth with an acceleration of 9.81 meters per second per second.
So will a feather. They'll touch the ground at the same moment if dropped at the same moment.
ANY anomaly? Indeed, science isn't able to explain any anomaly. We would have to know and understand everything about everything to be able to do that. And we obviously don't.
But we can explain plenty of specific anomalies in plenty fields.
Anomalies are just as inevitable. But are anomalies really "anomalies"? What does it mean to be an "anomaly"? One labels something an "anomaly" when it seems to deviate from current understanding.
For example...........
Water freezes below 0°C.
If you toy around with pressure, that changes. Higher pressure will lower the freezing point.
To someone with a simple theory of "< 0° = ice", that would be anomaly.
To someone with a more sophisticated theory that takes pressure into account, that would be normal.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
No. That would be magic.
What you described there, is more in line with what creationists believe then anything any scientific hypothesis suggests.
Says the guy who believes a magic being magicked it all into existence.
I bet you can't even name a single actual scientific hypothesis for the origin of the universe and even less that you can accurately summarize what it says in layman's terms.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Claiming something is a miracle is synonymous with saying "I don't know / can't explain it".
People using such "reasoning" also claimed lightning was a miracle before we understood what it was.
Pretty much every phenomenon of nature was considered "miraculous" before we understood what was actually happening.
You might want to take a lesson from history, which has shown time and again that calling something "miraculous" never amounts to anything...