The Best Country in the Universe

[PureX]

Or so I was told at a demolition derby I treated myself to last night at the county fair. I know I'll probably take some heat from some of our US members over this, but...

For whatever reason, I took exception to a comment by the MC, who announced after the national anthem, "We are the best country in the UNIVERSE!!" to which the grandstands went wild. While they cheered, I couldn't help but think, "I'm not even sure we're the best country in North America right now."

I suppose I understand national pride thing to an extent, when it comes to cultural things, but I find it a bit arrogant to say "we're #1."

Maybe other countries wouldn't dislike the US so much if we actually took a look at ourselves and realized we have some opportunity for improvement?

What say you?

Blinding ignorance feels good. It's makes all the bad stuff vanish. And it can be sold like a drug if one knows how to do it.

And sadly, we have a number of big corporations that know how to do it, and that are doing it every day for big profits. And as with any drug, it can become addictive. People will crave the "feel good" response they get from that kind of willful ignorance, to the point where they will fight to remain ignorant. They will struggle to maintain that ignorance as their reality.

The U.S. has become a country of drug addicts. And the drugs aren't just chemically based. They're also fantasy based. And technology based. And the result is that a great many Americans are living in realities 24-7 that aren't real. They're made up by corporations, for profit, to satiate people's desire for an escape from reality. A reality that gets uglier and scarier by the day because the corporation keep telling us all that it is.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The U.S. has become a country of drug addicts. And the drugs aren't just chemically based. They're also fantasy based. And technology based. And the result is that a great many Americans are living in realities 24-7 that aren't real. They're made up by corporations, for profit, to satiate people's desire for an escape from reality. A reality that gets uglier and scarier by the day because the corporation keep telling us all that it is.

You're describing indoctrination, or the imprinting of ideas into passive minds unable to evaluate them critically through the repetition of bare claims or claims backed by specious arguments.

There's a defense to that - critical thinking - which forces one to evaluate arguments using reason and insist that the arguments be sound before accepting them - the kind of thinking you have disparagingly called scientism and myopic, but which recognizes and rejects indoctrinating propaganda.

And that emptiness you describe in Americans is the result of the violence Abrahamic religion has done on authentic spiritual by leaching the sacred from nature and exporting it to an angry, harshly judgmental ghost that threatens, give commands, is not a part of nature, and will eventually destroy it, as well as cheap redemption and easy forgiveness on demand. That's recipe for churning out empty people that call themselves spiritual because they believe in spirits. Add prosperity Christianity, Santa Clause and the expectation of Christmas gift purchasing and giving, and the anti-intellectualism of the fundamentalists and the right, and you generate rafts of zombies drifting in pursuit of the American corporate dream.

"Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few: Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools." Nobody need join them if he maintains his skepticism and learns how to evaluate claims properly.

 

[PureX]

You're describing indoctrination, or the imprinting of ideas into passive minds unable to evaluate them critically through the repetition of bare claims or claims backed by specious arguments.

Unable and often unwilling.

Stupid people begin being stupid the moment they choose to pretend they're smart instead of accepting that they're ignorant regarding some set of information or other. And then because that was easy, and it made them feel good, they do it again. And then again, and again, until it becomes a habit. And it finally becomes 'them'. Being wrong and learning from it is "hard" (is "bad", so saith the ego), so they just presume they are right and learn nothing, instead. Because it's "easy". And it feels good to the ego.

It's not "indoctrination", it's a failure of intellectual integrity. No one is imposing it on anyone else. They simply take advantage of it when we are foolish enough to allow ourselves to fall into it, and to become willfully stupid as a result.

There's a defense to that - critical thinking - which forces one to evaluate arguments using reason and insist that the arguments be sound before accepting them - the kind of thinking you have disparagingly called scientism and myopic, but which recognizes and rejects indoctrinating propaganda.

Critical thinking is very important, but it's based on subjugating the ego, so one can accept "being wrong". The criticism has to be aimed back at us or it's just another bias pretending to be right by finding everyone else wrong.

And that emptiness you describe in Americans is the result of the violence Abrahamic religion has done on authentic spiritual by leaching the sacred from nature and exporting it to an angry, harshly judgmental ghost that threatens, give commands, is not a part of nature, and will eventually destroy it, as well as cheap redemption and easy forgiveness on demand. That's recipe for churning out empty people that call themselves spiritual because they believe in spirits. Add prosperity Christianity, Santa Clause and the expectation of Christmas gift purchasing and giving, and the anti-intellectualism of the fundamentalists and the right, and you generate rafts of zombies drifting in pursuit of the American corporate dream.

Religions, corporations, governments, all these take advantage of our willful ignorance. They feed it for their own gain. They turn us into willful idiots addicted to feeling good about ourselves by our never having to be wrong about anything. And by the constant techno-distractions that we idiots love to engage with 24-7 so we don't have to see ourselves for what we have actually become.

That you keep focusing on religion to blame is a great example of this. It's where you are TOTALLY convinced that you are right and they are wrong. So its where your mind goes to live whenever the subject of our collective stupidity comes up. Because that's where the ego feels the most righteous.

"Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few: Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools." Nobody need join them if he maintains his skepticism and learns how to evaluate claims properly.

We are all fools. Make no mistake. But we can at least acknowledge that we are fools, and be WRONG in our foolishness, and maybe learn something from it. Rather than foolishly pretending that we are never wrong, and learn absolutely nothing new, thereafter.

 

[JustGeorge]

We've had two friends from here return to the States in the last two years. First was Martha, who returned to South Carolina and her daughter because of increasing frailty and insecurity about living alone. She misses everything about this life, but what she specified was the loss of the freedom to get her medications over the counter that are by prescription only in the States and require a doctor's visit when the last refill is consumed, which she considers expensive and inconvenient.

The medication issue here is really obnoxious indeed.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It's not "indoctrination", it's a failure of intellectual integrity.

I don't see those as incompatible.

Why put indoctrination in scare quotes? It's a simple idea and easily identified. I just wrote these words minutes ago on another thread:

"You fear government because you have been skillfully trained to do so by people who resent anything that impedes their bottom-line including taxes, government spending on ordinary people, and environmental protections. The evidence that you didn't come to these conclusions yourself is that you can't back up any of what you say or rebut posts like this one. All you bring are unsubstantiated corporatist memes."

That's indoctrination. In our prelinguistic phase, we learn how to move around and manipulate our environment by trial and error. Once we acquire language, which is passive and occurs by osmosis by just being conscious when language is spoken, we are now able acquire the ideas of others, but also passively, which is what indoctrination is. A parent says something, you can't evaluate it, you don't know to question it or that you should, and you imbibe it uncritically.

And it is possible to never go beyond that stage, to never learn that critical thinking exists or what it does for those who acquire that skill. That's the source of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome in most cases in my opinion. It's not hubris to think that your beliefs and opinions are as valid as anybody's if the only way you know to acquire them is passively. I saw that clearly here on RF during the pandemic when we were discussing vaccines and the data supporting taking them if eligible. Somebody would say that the data are clear on what is the case regarding the relative danger of the virus and the vaccine, and somebody would answer, "That's just your opinion" implying that other opinions were just as valid. That's a person who is unaware of what critical thinking is and does.

No one is imposing it on anyone else.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. These people are defenseless against indoctrination coming from a trusted source, and they trust by faith. There's a nice metaphor in marine biology. Plankton are the creatures like algae that float with currents. Nekton are the larger creatures that swim, walk, slither, etc., and in so doing, choose their direction and location. We all begin as plankton intellectually. Some become nekton. The plankton have their course imposed on them because they can't chart a direction and follow it, just like the obligate indoctrinee.

That you keep focusing on religion to blame is a great example of this. It's where you are TOTALLY convinced that you are right and they are wrong. So its where your mind goes to live whenever the subject of our collective stupidity comes up. Because that's where the ego feels the most righteous.

Religion's part in America's mindless consumerism is its anti-intellectual message praising faith as a virtue, which generates citizens susceptible to all manner of indoctrination outside of religion, like the vaccine stuff I just mentioned, and the anti-government posture of many indoctrinated conservatives carrying water for their corporate indoctrinators that I just illustrated. It's why Trump could so easily manipulate his uncritical devotees. It's why the petrochemical industry could generate a huge climate denial contingent. It's why people support removing reproductive and marital freedoms. There are too many plankton, and that's by design.

We are all fools. Make no mistake. But we can at least acknowledge that we are fools, and be WRONG in our foolishness, and maybe learn something from it. Rather than foolishly pretending that we are never wrong, and learn absolutely nothing new, thereafter.

Agreed, but you know that there are too many that can't do that. That requires a certain depth of thought and an understanding of the tentative nature of knowledge - the kind of thing creationists decry when they object to scientific language like "appears to be" or "It is possible" - too wishy-washy for binary thinkers.

 

[sun rise]

Again subjective. And American food doesn't even rank in my top 10.

American food is nothing special. But the variety of different ethnic foods available in the USA can't be beat.

 

[SalixIncendium]

American food is nothing special. But the variety of different ethnic foods available in the USA can't be beat.

I haven't been to other countries to verify this, so I'll have to take you at your word.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Or so I was told at a demolition derby I treated myself to last night at the county fair. I know I'll probably take some heat from some of our US members over this, but...

For whatever reason, I took exception to a comment by the MC, who announced after the national anthem, "We are the best country in the UNIVERSE!!" to which the grandstands went wild. While they cheered, I couldn't help but think, "I'm not even sure we're the best country in North America right now."

I suppose I understand national pride thing to an extent, when it comes to cultural things, but I find it a bit arrogant to say "we're #1."

Maybe other countries wouldn't dislike the US so much if we actually took a look at ourselves and realized we have some opportunity for improvement?

What say you?

This is easy. The best country in the Universe is the Ozarks.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I haven't been to other countries to verify this, so I'll have to take you at your word.

Hot dogs!

 

[Stevicus]

Thinking further on this topic, it occurs to me that many things which have made America wealthy and powerful came about through fortunate circumstances and being in the right place at the right time. "Freedom" is kind of a subjective term, which, if we look back through the various phases of America's history, expansion, and development - most of the building blocks and structure were not really created under "free" conditions as we would define them today. A lot of America's raw wealth and power came about mainly through a series of fortunate happenstances which the early colonists and settlers benefited from.

Bismarck also remarked about America's fortunate position: “The Americans are truly a lucky people. They are bordered to the north and south by weak neighbors and to the east and west by fish.”

We eventually became a great industrial, economic, and military power, although for a time, we were on a par with the other great powers of the world.

We didn't reach the level that people commonly refer to when they say the "greatest" or the "best," which was in the period during WW2 and the decades following. Along the way, it seemed that we were learning that all of our previous ideas about "freedom" were also wrong. Many of the things people take for granted now, such as Miranda rights, the Civil Rights Act, and many other landmark decisions which changed the political and social landscape and formed the ideas of what most people think about when they think of "freedom" nowadays. They didn't even exist during most of America's history.

As for being the "greatest" or "the best," we may fluctuate in the rankings here and there.

One thing that does seem pretty clear is that people outside of America seem to be more interested in America than the reverse. Not just in terms of politics or military adventurism, but other aspect as well, such as music, culture, film, TV shows. For those here posting from outside America, I can almost guarantee that you know more about American society, culture, and politics than the average American would know about regarding your country.

I don't know if that's any real testament to America's "greatness," that much of the population tends to be more insular and self-absorbed that they don't think the rest of the world is important enough to bother learning about - other than what's spoon fed to them by the government and media. They're the ones who keep harping about America being the "greatest," so if they're saying it, then surely it must be true.

But then, if we have to go around and remind each other at how "free" we are and how we're "the best country in the universe," then that might be telling, in and of itself.

Maybe it's just a slogan, and maybe it doesn't mean that much.

After all, if you were passing a roadside diner which said they had the "best fried chicken in the universe," would you believe it?

 

[JustGeorge]

American food is nothing special. But the variety of different ethnic foods available in the USA can't be beat.

American food isn't my favorite, overall. I've developed a new appreciation for it, though, when I got to know regional cuisines. The traditional foods of an area have a whole different take than the more thought of burger and fries type stuff.

And I know the 'official' national dish is burgers, but I'm convinced its really chili. Every area seems to have their own unique spin...

 

[sun rise]

I haven't been to other countries to verify this, so I'll have to take you at your word.

My opinion is based on having been in Europe and India as well as having food from many different nations available in a short drive based on immigration from those countries including Mexican/South American, Indian, French, Italian, African, various Chinese and Indian regions, English, German etc.

Also bard.google.com wrote:

There are over 50 different nation's foods available in a 50 mile radius around San Francisco based on this prompt: How many different nation's food is available in a 50 mile radius around San Francisco?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Thinking further on this topic, it occurs to me that many things which have made America wealthy and powerful came about through fortunate circumstances and being in the right place at the right time. "Freedom" is kind of a subjective term, which, if we look back through the various phases of America's history, expansion, and development - most of the building blocks and structure were not really created under "free" conditions as we would define them today. A lot of America's raw wealth and power came about mainly through a series of fortunate happenstances which the early colonists and settlers benefited from.

Happy accidents and actions that weren't really an expression of the "freedom" that many like to tout.

Bismarck also remarked about America's fortunate position: “The Americans are truly a lucky people. They are bordered to the north and south by weak neighbors and to the east and west by fish.”

That is a big plus to have large geopolitical buffer zones. Of course, modern technology can now easily circumvent those zones.

We eventually became a great industrial, economic, and military power, although for a time, we were on a par with the other great powers of the world.

We didn't reach the level that people commonly refer to when they say the "greatest" or the "best," which was in the period during WW2 and the decades following.

I agree with you on that and I think it is an idea well-supported by the historical facts.

Along the way, it seemed that we were learning that all of our previous ideas about "freedom" were also wrong. Many of the things people take for granted now, such as Miranda rights, the Civil Rights Act, and many other landmark decisions which changed the political and social landscape and formed the ideas of what most people think about when they think of "freedom" nowadays. They didn't even exist during most of America's history.

If I could go back in time, I would go to the 1950's. That was a good time to be a white, male American. It sounds facetious, I know, and that is often my approach, but I think that a lot of "modern conservatives" look on this as some ideal time where freedom was the model for America, while overlooking that it was freedom for only a portion of the population at the expense or limitations on the freedom of the rest.

As for being the "greatest" or "the best," we may fluctuate in the rankings here and there.

One thing that does seem pretty clear is that people outside of America seem to be more interested in America than the reverse. Not just in terms of politics or military adventurism, but other aspect as well, such as music, culture, film, TV shows. For those here posting from outside America, I can almost guarantee that you know more about American society, culture, and politics than the average American would know about regarding your country.

I was surprised to find out how many countries have their own versions of heavy metal, some of it quite good.

I think it would surprise many Americans to learn that there are other countries that have many of the freedoms we have. Though I'm not sure that being selfish is one that is as popular outside the US as it is becoming inside the US.

I don't know if that's any real testament to America's "greatness," that much of the population tends to be more insular and self-absorbed that they don't think the rest of the world is important enough to bother learning about - other than what's spoon fed to them by the government and media. They're the ones who keep harping about America being the "greatest," so if they're saying it, then surely it must be true.

That actually may be part of the problem, or perhaps a symptom of one.

But then, if we have to go around and remind each other at how "free" we are and how we're "the best country in the universe," then that might be telling, in and of itself.

The best lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

Maybe it's just a slogan, and maybe it doesn't mean that much.

After all, if you were passing a roadside diner which said they had the "best fried chicken in the universe," would you believe it?

I might not believe it, but I might try it. Not sure how you would fully test the claim though. I don't recall alien encounter stories mentioning the little grey men brought a bucket of chicken with them.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

American food isn't my favorite, overall. I've developed a new appreciation for it, though, when I got to know regional cuisines. The traditional foods of an area have a whole different take than the more thought of burger and fries type stuff.

And I know the 'official' national dish is burgers, but I'm convinced its really chili. Every area seems to have their own unique spin...

I'm not sure what really constitutes American food, but I think you may be correct that it may be or becoming just burgers and fries or anything fastfoodable.

I could live with chili being the national dish. Especially with all the variants.

 

[JustGeorge]

I'm not sure what really constitutes American food, but I think you may be correct that it may be or becoming just burgers and fries or anything fastfoodable.

I could live with chili being the national dish. Especially with all the variants.

I honestly think the country is too big and what grows where is too diverse to accurately come up with a food that is represented in all regions. So, we declare it burgers, because you can order one no matter where you are, but are all eating chili at home(all with our own variations, depending on where we are, what's available at a reasonable price, and what we've been accustomed to believing is in there).

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I honestly think the country is too big and what grows where is too diverse to accurately come up with a food that is represented in all regions. So, we declare it burgers, because you can order one no matter where you are, but are all eating chili at home(all with our own variations, depending on where we are, what's available at a reasonable price, and what we've been accustomed to believing is in there).

My mother was raised in the city and taught to cook by my grandmother who was raised in Croatia. Her take on chili was a combination of that with what she knew as traditional chili. Her recipe contained other ingredients beyond the traditional chili and beans. Chickpeas, mushrooms, lots of onions, garlic, various sweet peppers, whole or chopped tomatoes and whatever struck her fancy. It was delicious and full of different textures and flavors not found in other chili recipes. I recall that the chickpeas for their light color, crunchy texture and nutty flavor that added to the overall dish became a favorite for me. I also like big hunks of tomato.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I honestly think the country is too big and what grows where is too diverse to accurately come up with a food that is represented in all regions. So, we declare it burgers, because you can order one no matter where you are, but are all eating chili at home(all with our own variations, depending on where we are, what's available at a reasonable price, and what we've been accustomed to believing is in there).

We ate a lot of broccoli when I was growing up, but I have recently discovered--you may have been the person that brought this to my attention--the use of it on pizza. It's a great pizza topper.

 

[mangalavara]

I suppose I understand national pride thing to an extent, when it comes to cultural things, but I find it a bit arrogant to say "we're #1."

Our calling code is +1. This alone is what elevates my pride and causes all other nations to have less rank than a crinkled receipt from 1998.

Maybe other countries wouldn't dislike the US so much if we actually took a look at ourselves and realized we have some opportunity for improvement?

What is there to improve? Trump Data Labs has a spokesperson who recently spoke about America scientifically being huger in the quality of literally everything than all other countries put together.

What say you?

As many other genuine patriots proclaim, ‘America: lock it or leave it.’

This entire post is a joke, by the way.

 

[Stevicus]

This is easy. The best country in the Universe is the Ozarks.

I listen to country on a local station here, although they often play both kinds: Country and Western. I don't know if they're the best, although they would probably say they are.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I honestly think the country is too big and what grows where is too diverse to accurately come up with a food that is represented in all regions. So, we declare it burgers, because you can order one no matter where you are, but are all eating chili at home(all with our own variations, depending on where we are, what's available at a reasonable price, and what we've been accustomed to believing is in there).

I think the variety of regional cooking, influences from other countries, so many different restaurants and now food trucks is a fantastic blessing in this country. Food security that other countries don't all have.

It may not make us a great country, but it does make our lives more full and not everyone may appreciate that or the origins of it.

I had to go back to the top to look at what the OP was.

Sorry for any diversion from the OP. It was unintentional.