The bible and gays

[suncowiam]

Depends on your objective as to what you read and study.
The bible is the authoritative and authorized collected, written Tradition of the people of God. It's a library -- a repository. It contains several different kinds of literature, most of which are poetic, mythic and metaphorical in nature.

The objective is to live a life so that I do not go to hell in the after-life, which is basically all religious people confirm to? Is that correct? Would you agree with me?

 

[sojourner]

The objective is to live a life so that I do not go to hell in the after-life, which is basically all religious people confirm to? Is that correct? Would you agree with me?

No, I disagree. The objective is to live so that you love, have compassion, show mercy, display kindness, act in forbearance, defend justice, and extend hospitality to the least among us, seeing the face of Christ in all, to the end that God is served through those acts.

 

[suncowiam]

No, I disagree. The objective is to live so that you love, have compassion, show mercy, display kindness, act in forbearance, defend justice, and extend hospitality to the least among us.

I won't argue with you on that point.

However, one can do all that and still go to hell? Let's rebase with this thread and on homosexuality. I know enough homosexuals that live life as you describe yet, in the traditional meaning of the bible, they are acting in sin and therefore, will go to hell.

 

[sojourner]

I won't argue with you on that point.

However, one can do all that and still go to hell? Let's rebase with this thread and on homosexuality. I know enough homosexuals that live life as you describe yet, in the traditional meaning of the bible, they are acting in sin and therefore, will go to hell.

I don't believe they are "acting in sin," and I don't believe in hell.

 

[Norman]

This could be turned right around on you easily enough, O Christian Who Followeth the Teachings of Jesus, which saith, "You shall be judged with the same judgment with which you judge others." Oh, the vainness and the frailties and the foolishness of Mormons! When they are learned in the BoM, they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God [to love their fellow human beings], for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom [of dehumanization] is foolishness and it profiteth them not!

Norman: I will play your word game just once.

2 Timothy 3:7 Sojourner, ever learning, and never able to come to the Knowledge of the truth.

 

[Norman]

Is this supposed to mean something to me? Because I don't believe in the Christian faith or any of your writings so what you say means nothing to me at all.

Norman: Hi JoStories, it is simply a saying about wisdom of men against wisdom of God.

 

[Awoon]

Word of God made it clear he never made people to be gay. As a Christian I cant and won't rewrite what God says to please people. If God says it is a sin it is just many other sins. We make choices to live in sin.

Just where does it say sin? Abominations are not sins, just unclean.

 

[sojourner]

Norman: I will play your word game just once.

2 Timothy 3:7 Sojourner, ever learning, and never able to come to the Knowledge of the truth.

The point is, flinging random bible verses doesn't make one right, and it doesn't really address the issue. Stop looking at dead texts and begin looking at fellow human beings. Listen to their stories. Look in their eyes. Who really cares what Levitican law says when the rubber hits the road?

 

[sojourner]

Norman: Hi JoStories, it is simply a saying about wisdom of men against wisdom of God.

Problem is, that wisdom is imparted through fallible human beings, and propagated through their imperfect lenses. Then, that filtered wisdom is treated as infallible and immutable. Kind of like the creation story. Humanity's wisdom has discovered that the sky is patently not a solid dome covering a disc-shaped earth. Just as medical science has discovered that homosexuality is a natural and healthy expression of sexual identity.

 

[asm Jenkins]

Why is the bible homophobic

What if the bible never existed? Where would we all get our beliefs and opinions about god from then? Just a thought.

 

[Katzpur]

So, "all Mormons claim to know God's will for homosexuals." Correct?

I certainly don't claim to know God's will for homosexuals, but I'm pretty sure I know His will for me -- and that's that I love as His Son loved, that I focus a whole lot more on how I live my life than on how other people live theirs, and leave the judgment up to Him.

 

[sojourner]

I certainly don't claim to know God's will for homosexuals, but I'm pretty sure I know His will for me -- and that's that I love as His Son loved, that I focus a whole lot more on how I live my life than on how other people live theirs, and leave the judgment up to Him.

See, this is why I have a lot of respect for you. You don't get all entitled about what's right for everybody, based upon your own filter. I don't know, but based upon what I know of your posts and the other poster's posts, I think maybe that poster is giving Mormonism a black eye.

 

[Norman]

Why is the bible homophobic

Norman: Hi Leo613, Homophobic is not In the Bible. It is a word created by man and same sex attraction people use it to freely and to loosely. To further answer your question read below.

Genesis 2:18 ¶And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. 21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

God has spoken, there was not any same sex marriage before you were born and there will not be any same sex marriage after you die, end of story.



Families are Forever

 

[Norman]

See, this is why I have a lot of respect for you. You don't get all entitled about what's right for everybody, based upon your own filter. I don't know, but based upon what I know of your posts and the other poster's posts, I think maybe that poster is giving Mormonism a black eye.

Norman: The only one giving Mormonism a black eye is you sojourner. You are on ignore, bye.

 

[Katzpur]

I know enough homosexuals that live life as you describe yet, in the traditional meaning of the bible, they are acting in sin and therefore, will go to hell.

Can you name anyone who isn't "acting in sin"?

 

[Norman]

I would have to agree. I hate when my fellow Christians use the whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" excuse. If you think that God is going to punish homosexuals in any way, and you agree that this punishment is even somewhat deserved, you have crossed the line into "homophobia". To the best of our scientific knowledge, homosexuality is not consciously chosen, so to judge homosexuals in your own mind as being "sinful" is just about as intolerant as it gets. Then when you look at those who actively try to stop CIVIL (not religious) marriage from including same-sex couples, it is clear that they are intolerant, not just of homosexuality, but of homosexuals and the way they choose to live.

Norman: Hi leibowde84, just some resources for you. Some scientists have searched for a direct genetic cause of same-sex attraction—a gene or chromosome that actually determines sexual orientation. (Friedman and Downey, p. 149) Some studies hint at a biological component, but have not proven that same-sex attraction is an inborn or biologically-determined characteristic. If you read the reports published by the researchers, you find that they admit their current findings are not conclusive and simply hint at what some of the causes may be. Furthermore, these studies have not been able to be replicated. Sadly, some news reports have misrepresented or sensationalized the facts, leading some people to the mistaken notion that homosexuality is a genetic trait. Most scientists today give genetic theories little credibility. (Lewontin) The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association recommends that people not use the argument that homosexuality is biological because there is simply not enough evidence. Drs. Neil & Briar Whitehead state, "No genetically determined human behavior has yet been found.” (Neil & Briar Whitehead, 1999) Most researchers and scientists believe there is no single cause, and that the factors may be different for different people.

Source:

http://www.samesexattraction.org/biological-causes-homosexuality.htm

Approved by the Board of Trustees, December 2013
Approved by the Assembly, November 2013
"Policy documents are approved by the APA Assembly and
Board of Trustees…These are…position statements that define
APA official policy on specific subjects…" – APA Operations
Manual.

While recognizing that the scientific understanding is incomplete and often distorted because of societal stigma, the American Psychiatric Association holds the following positions regarding same-sex attraction and associated issues. It is the American Psychiatric Association’s position that same-sex attraction, whether expressed in action, fantasy, or identity, implies no impairment per se in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities. The American Psychiatric Association believes that the causes of sexual orientation (whether homosexual or heterosexual) are not known at this time…

Source:

http://www.psychiatry.org/home/search-results?k=same sex attraction

 

[suncowiam]

Can you name anyone who isn't "acting in sin"?

I don't know the true definition of sin because it can be so subjective. Outside of the ten commandments everything else seems so vague and then again very subjective pending which Christian you talk to.

But this boils back to my original point. If one doesn't believe the literal world of the Bible then how can they be sure they are not sinners? If left to interpretation then who's interpretation is correct?

 

[suncowiam]

Norman: Hi Leo613, Homophobic is not In the Bible. It is a word created by man and same sex attraction people use it to freely and to loosely. To further answer your question read below.

Genesis 2:18 ¶And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. 21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

God has spoken, there was not any same sex marriage before you were born and there will not be any same sex marriage after you die, end of story.



Families are Forever

This is anti gay if not homophobic. So what if homophobic was not defined in the bible. What does that prove?

Btw, you're reading other people's accounts of God. Heresay, if you will. Why should I believe this truly came from God?

 

[suncowiam]

Norman: Hi leibowde84, just some resources for you. Some scientists have searched for a direct genetic cause of same-sex attraction—a gene or chromosome that actually determines sexual orientation. (Friedman and Downey, p. 149) Some studies hint at a biological component, but have not proven that same-sex attraction is an inborn or biologically-determined characteristic. If you read the reports published by the researchers, you find that they admit their current findings are not conclusive and simply hint at what some of the causes may be. Furthermore, these studies have not been able to be replicated. Sadly, some news reports have misrepresented or sensationalized the facts, leading some people to the mistaken notion that homosexuality is a genetic trait. Most scientists today give genetic theories little credibility. (Lewontin) The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association recommends that people not use the argument that homosexuality is biological because there is simply not enough evidence. Drs. Neil & Briar Whitehead state, "No genetically determined human behavior has yet been found.” (Neil & Briar Whitehead, 1999) Most researchers and scientists believe there is no single cause, and that the factors may be different for different people.

Source:

http://www.samesexattraction.org/biological-causes-homosexuality.htm

Approved by the Board of Trustees, December 2013
Approved by the Assembly, November 2013
"Policy documents are approved by the APA Assembly and
Board of Trustees…These are…position statements that define
APA official policy on specific subjects…" – APA Operations
Manual.

While recognizing that the scientific understanding is incomplete and often distorted because of societal stigma, the American Psychiatric Association holds the following positions regarding same-sex attraction and associated issues. It is the American Psychiatric Association’s position that same-sex attraction, whether expressed in action, fantasy, or identity, implies no impairment per se in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities. The American Psychiatric Association believes that the causes of sexual orientation (whether homosexual or heterosexual) are not known at this time…

Source:

http://www.psychiatry.org/home/search-results?k=same sex attraction

So what if homosexuality is genetics or a choice? I understand why it matters concerning religion. But seriously, so what? Outside of the Bible, what statistics prove that homosexuality is a danger to society?

So far, I've found none. People assume a healthy family is with a core of male and female parents. Yet there has been no studies to conclude anything. I've actually heard that children from same sex couples do better in school. I'm not asserting that its true, though...

 

[hannah969]

Coming from a Catholic background, I can say with authority that the bible hates gays to an almost pathological extent. It's not even arguable.