BBTimeless
Active Member
Swing and a miss...
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The Bible and Homosexuality
- Thread starter InfidelRiot
- Start date
Right so the the standard for who Jesus is isnt the Bible its the way you think he should be. If the Bible disagrees with your make believe Jesus than the Bible is false your right. So now you not only say homosexuality is fine with God, you say Jesus standards for marriage and adultery are wrong, you know better.
You are right about one thing, there will be no apology
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I thought not.
BBTimeless
Active Member
For crying out loud...
InfidelRiot
Active Member
The standard for Jesus? Is the standard who he really is, someone who would most likely have no problems with homosexuality, or is the standard more akin to your preconceived notions on how people should live? The fact of the matter is that Jesus by today's standards was a socialist whom most conservative religious republicans would dismiss as a good-for-nothing hippy.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Jesus often challenged the status quo.
McBell
Unbound
Interesting how you have as yet to support your claim with anything other than more empty claims...
McBell
Unbound
What makes YOUR opinion of what the Bible says right and everyone else wrong?
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Um. She's Jewish. That means she thinks Jesus was not the Messiah. Did you not know that about the Jews? :areyoucra
Although I would argue with her that Jesus never claimed to be anything other than a Jew interested in reform and that it was Paul who was the liar but that's an argument for another day.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
ok.
well how is it obvious that god created us with an inclination to love someone of the same sex and then turns around and calls that inclination an abomination
God also gives people desires for other forbidden relationships or thing.
Why? I don't know. No matter what conjecture I come up with, it will be faulty, and someone won't approve, so I won't volunteer one.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Well, I, for one, think the video did an outstanding job of at least casting some doubt on the absolute clarity of biblical injunctions against homosexual practice. Further it corroborated anthropological assertion that the ancients did not know about orientation, so the passages are not speaking against homosexuality. So far, Allright has not come up with one shred of evidence that refutes what the video asserts. Other than his own "Because it's obvious" ploy.
The only evidence contrary to the video that bears attention is that presented by Harmonious -- and I thank her for giving us some meaty goodness to chew on here.
My question is: Does the video leave any shred of reasonable doubt that warrants a continuation of the subject of this thread? Or does the video inspire further discussion of the evidence contained therein?
The only evidence contrary to the video that bears attention is that presented by Harmonious -- and I thank her for giving us some meaty goodness to chew on here.
My question is: Does the video leave any shred of reasonable doubt that warrants a continuation of the subject of this thread? Or does the video inspire further discussion of the evidence contained therein?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Are those other things harmful to the individual or to others?
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Or, there is a third option: people should curb their actions for forbidden desires.
It takes a lot of discipline to live as an Orthodox Jew. Doing without many temptations comes with the territory.
That isn't what homosexuals want to hear, I'm aware. But not everone has to be a Jew.
That also doesn't help non-Jews living by the Seven Noachide Laws. I don't know what to tell you.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Taken out of context, and the interpreted in such as way that actually doesn't follow what the Bible says, but instead simply makes things up in order to justify hatred and intolerance.
As we can see in Ezekiel, the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, but inhospitality. They simply were jerks. Second, this story is very similar to the one in Judges, which deals with rape, and not homosexuality (rape is not homosexuality). Third, it states all of the men from the city were in on this. It is ridiculous to assume every man in the city was homosexual, because then your city dies. Fourth, there is no mention of homosexuality. There is only mention of some horrible people who want to rape others. Not to mention Lot obviously didn't think these individuals were gay men, as he offered his daughters to them instead.
Verse 22 only deals with male anal intercourse. When we look at the Bible, the only time we see such an act is with rape. That is not homosexuality. Considering that not all gay or lesbian individuals engage in such an act, and at the same time, many non-gay individuals do engage in this act, we can not see it as homosexuality. Because it just isn't.
A sodomite does not refer to homosexuality. Sodomy is a term that refers to much more then that. Basically anything that is not penile-vaginale intercourse.
Which is inhospitality
This is the closest thing to discussing homosexuality as it gets in the Bible. However, we aren't talking about homosexuality. We are talking about non-gay individuals making a conscious decision to participate in "homosexual acts." More so, right after this passage, the whole argument flips around, and those who had been judging such people are told that they are also guilty, and that they shouldn't judge anyone.
So it has nothing to do with homosexuality, and in fact, tells people not to judge others.
That is everything that they listed under the Bible. That is hardly hundreds of verses, and none of them actually talk about homosexuality. In fact, a couple of them even state (if the context is read) that one shouldn't judge others, and that regardless of who we are, we can be justified and washed clean.
First, this is a bad translation. There is no Greek word for homosexual. So this translation simply isn't correct. Exactly what arsenkoites translates to (what this translation is portraying as homosexual) is not fully known. It could be the active person in male anal intercourse. But here again, we would only have an act, not a sexual orientation, which is condemned.
The biggest thing though, is that right after these verses, says those people can be saved, can be washed and justified. It is hardly condemning homosexuality.
Here again, we don't exactly know what arsenkoites means. This translation puts it as sodomite. That isn't homosexuality though. Sodomy has been defined as everything that is not male female reproductive sex. That includes using birth control, masturbation, touching erogenous zones, etc. Sodomy really is a word that basically is useless, as it is so vague it could mean nearly anything, and has. It does not equal homosexuality though.
The sin of which was inhospitality, as Ezekiel states.
Just because it mentions Sodom, doesn't mean it talks about homosexuality. Especially when the matter is not brought up.
Again, look above. You simply see homosexuality because you want to.
Again, look above.
Nothing about homosexuality. It rests on the assumption that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality. Yet, if you read this verse, it actually says nothing about that, but that the sin was quite different. They were jerks.;
Not a thing about homosexuality;
Not a thing about homosexuality.
Basically, all you can show is that you see homosexuality in the Bible where ever you want to, because you want to.
My husband and I are both polyamorous. Hence, we are open to having relationships in addition to ours. Continuing down that road could bring some colorful conversations, but we can save that debate for another thread.
But, I was speaking of 20+ years of trying to kill that desire for women in me before I was married, which is culturally more acceptable than the arrangement in my marriage now. And that trying to deny it is like a death. Orientation is much more than a simple desire, or even a burning desire. It is the capacity to fall in love and to share a life and a home with another person.
My story doesn't begin nor end with the day I got married to the coolest man alive.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Sojourner, you may think the Torah was made up and authored by humans.
I believe the Pentateuch was authored by God. It's a rather serious part of my belief system.
So even though your post sounds reasonable in theory, I'm going to have to say "No, your suggestion is not a possibility."
And as brilliant an orator as the fellow is in the video, while his interpretation is appealing, I'm going with: It is interesting but wrong.
I realize other people will say the same about my position. That's life.
InfidelRiot
Active Member
Harmonious, were you raised into Judaism or is it something you chose willingly and apart from what your family believes?
waitasec
Veteran Member
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
No. Just... Unpleasant.