The Bible declares that Jesus is God

[viole]

I have already addressed this in my post regarding the Carmen Christi see Philippians 2

Well, that is a lot of text. What about a management summary?

Yes....or no?

Ciao

- viole

 

[MJFlores]

If Jesus is not God, how can Jesus receive or be conferred even a fraction of the glory due exclusively to God?

What is glory?

Isaiah 42:8 New International Version (NIV)

“I am the Lord; that is my name!
I will not yield my glory to another
or my praise to idols.

But the bible is sharper than a double edged sword, isn't it?
One is looking in one side of the blade, but there is another side sharper as the other.

And this is the other side of it - still on the Old Testament - centuries before the Lord Jesus was born. Written by the Prophet Daniel, I hope you are familiar with Daniel.
The one thrown in the lions' den and was unhurt.

In the Book of Daniel this is written:

Daniel 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)

“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

The prophet Daniel had a vision.
He was given...glory.
So he received glory.
Who was given the glory?
Who gave the glory?

There is always an exception to the rule:
God gave the Son of Man, Jesus Christ authority, GLORY and sovereign power. - and that is in the Bible.

 

[Rick B]

Well, that is a lot of text. What about a management summary?

Yes....or no?

Ciao

- viole

OK, if you wish look up the Carmen Christi - Philippians 2 and post #116. If brevity is what you want. The first and #93 for my full proposition.

 

[viole]

OK, if you wish look up the Carmen Christi - Philippians 2 and post #116. If brevity is what you want. The first and #93 for my full proposition.

Is that so difficult to say yes or no? What would you think if upon the question "is space relative?" i would delegate you to Wheeler's treatise on relativity? I can tell you straight away whether space is relative or not.

So, just one whee bit of information. Do the Son and the Father share the same knowledge?

Yes....or no?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Oeste]

We see claims that God gives His glory to Jesus. So far, I haven't seen anyone with proof of this.

1. “I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols” Isaiah 42:8

2. “The glory belongs to God, forever and ever. Amen.” Galatians 1:5

3. “…in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen” 1 Peter 4:11

4. “This is what the LORD says: ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.’” Isaiah 66:1

5. “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”’ But he said to them, “How can they say that the Christ is David's son? For David himself says in the Book of Psalms, David thus calls him Lord, so how is he his son?” Luke 20:41-44

6. “And behold, Jesus met them and said, ‘Greetings!’ And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.” Matthew 28:9

God does not yield his glory to anyone, so if he yields it to Jesus then Jesus must be God. If he is anyone but God then Isaiah 42:8 is a lie.

All glory belongs to God and to no one else…not another God, not some other “Mighty God”, not to some nice guy who was “just a man” like Gandhi

At 1 Peter 4:11 we see God glorified through Jesus Christ and to him (Jesus) belongs glory and dominion forever and ever.” Again, Jesus must be God because we have never been asked to give God His glory through another (idol).

Aaron attempted to bridge the gap between idolatry and godly worship by building an altar before the calf and proclaiming “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the Lord” (Exodus 32:5) but it didn’t quite work out for him or the Jews.

At Isaiah 66:1 we see the Lord proclaiming the earth as His footstool and at Matthew 28:9 we see both Mary worshiping at the feet of Jesus. This is honor (worship) not conferred and a position (prostate, at the feet) no first century Christian or Jew would assume unless it was before God.

 

[Oeste]

And this is the other side of it - still on the Old Testament - centuries before the Lord Jesus was born. Written by the Prophet Daniel, I hope you are familiar with Daniel.
The one thrown in the lions' den and was unhurt.

In the Book of Daniel this is written:

Daniel 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)

“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

The prophet Daniel had a vision.
He was given...glory.
So he received glory.
Who was given the glory?
Who gave the glory?

You appear to imply that Daniels' vision is about himself and not Jesus. If so, that is quite an aberrant interpretation.

You ask "Who gave the glory".
Great!

Now I'll ask "Who gave His glory to another"?
Please review the following scripture prior to your answer:

"I am the Lord; that is My name. And My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images" (Isaiah 42:8}

There is always an exception to the rule:

So that's how non-Trinitarians do it...they look for the "exception to the rule"!

I'm sure this rule, that 'there is always an exception to every rule', is based on scripture.

Can you quote it for us please? For starters could you kindly quote the exception to each of the 10 commandments?

 

[Oeste]

So, just one whee bit of information. Do the Son and the Father share the same knowledge?

Yes....or no?

Ciao

- viole

I can't answer for Rick B., but if this is the only bit of information you need I believe the answer can be found at Philippians 2:6 (which Rick B. quoted previously):

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (Philippians 2:5-8)​

So Jesus growing up to be a man did not have the same knowledge as Jesus presiding in his pre/post incarnate state. Remember, Trinitarians believe Jesus had a dual nature and was fully God and fully man. Oft times he spoke from the perspective of either.

Could Jesus acquire knowledge? Yes, but an equality of knowledge was not something he wanted to grasp. He had to humble himself in order to live fully as a man.

Also I believe there is little doubt that Jesus grew in knowledge as he aged:

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 1 Corinthians 13:11​

 

[viole]

I can't answer for Rick B., but if this is the only bit of information you need I believe the answer can be found at Philippians 2:6 (which Rick B. quoted previously):

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (Philippians 2:5-8)​

So Jesus growing up to be a man did not have the same knowledge as Jesus presiding in his pre/post incarnate state. Remember, Trinitarians believe Jesus had a dual nature and was fully God and fully man. Oft times he spoke from the perspective of either.

Could Jesus acquire knowledge? Yes, but an equality of knowledge was not something he wanted to grasp. He had to humble himself in order to live fully as a man.

Also I believe there is little doubt that Jesus grew in knowledge as he aged:

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 1 Corinthians 13:11​

Your post is huge. I can count several hundreds of bits of useless information.

What I ask is only one bit. One little tiny bit. Maybe two, if we allow for maybes or dunnos.

So, do the Son and the Father share the same information at all times? That does not appear to be so difficult to answer, I hope.

I really do not need any theory, philosophy, explanations, Bible stuff, Philippians, Corinthians, whatever ians, spiritual noise, justifications or anything of the sort. That can come later, if requested, which is not, at the moment.

Just a simple yes/no/maybe. The same bit I would give you if you asked me a direct question about what I know.

So, what is it?

Yes, no or... maybe.

Still waiting....

Ciao

- viole

P.S. If I do not get a clear cut one liner answer to that question, i will make the safe assumption that you guys do not know either.

 

[Kenny]

Your post is huge. I can count several hundreds of bits of useless information.

What I ask is only one bit. One little tiny bit. Maybe two, if we allow for maybes or dunnos.

So, do the Son and the Father share the same information? That does not appear to be so difficult, I hope.

I really do not need any theory, philosophy, explanations, Bible stuff, Philippians, Corinthians, whatever ians, spiritual noise, justifications or anything of the sort. That can come later, if requested, which is not, at the moment.

Just a simple yes/no/maybe. The same bit I would give you if you asked me a direct question about what I believe to know.

So, what is it?

Yes, no or... maybe.

Still waiting....

Ciao

- viole

P.S. If I do not get a clear cut one liner answer to that question, i will make the safe assumption that you guys do not know either.

Bonjour Viole,

It sounds like you are wanting a certain snapshot of eternity to reflect all of eternity. In other words, to have a parenthetical notation as the synthesis of the whole sentence would be wrong.

Or, in context of a forum, it sounds more like a setup than a real question.

A simple yes or no is not the answer.

As the Word... yes.
As Jesus before resurrection... no.
As resurrected Jesus, "yes" except for just one item.

Now, although my answer was very clear, you certainly can make your determination that my answer nothing but "theory, philosophy, Bible stuff" and therefore not clear.

Wait no longer....

A presto,

me.

 

[viole]

Now, although my answer was very clear, you certainly can make your determination that my answer nothing but "theory, philosophy, Bible stuff" and therefore not clear.

I wonder what makes you suspect that

Ciao

- viole

 

[Kenny]

I wonder what makes you suspect that

Ciao

- viole

Experience--experience.

A pesto,

- me

 

[viole]

Experience--experience.

A pesto,

- me

1+ 1= 2 and, in some cases,
1 + 1 = 10

Even though this is true, my experience tells me that you might get the impression I do not know what I am talking about.

Am I wrong?

Ciao

- viole

 

[kjw47]

Since you "know exactly what the Bible teaches" Then we all would greatly appreciate that you would finally (no one has yet) demonstrate, from the Biblical texts presented, that they are not declaring that Jesus is God.

If Jesus is the Word Rev.19:13
And if that same Word is God John 1:1-18
Then Jesus is God John 20:26-29

If God alone is to be worshipped Matthew 4:8-10
And if Jesus receives and accepts worship without any Biblical admonishment but full approval John 9:35-38; Rev. 22:1-3
Then the Bible declares that Jesus is God

Fact--The bible teaches not even an angel is to get worship--Only to God.
Every trinity translation on earth has mortals bowing in worship to a mortal( Jesus)= never occurred.
Jesus was LOWER than the angels while on earth-a mortal( Hebrews 2:7-9) -- reality--They bowed in obeisance to their king, not in worship---a translating error to mislead--contradicts Gods truth.
Errors make it look like Jesus is God.
Error at John 1:1--no capitol G God belongs in the last line --it makes the 2nd line read--And God was with God--that is an impossibility--there is one God to all-The Father-1Cor 8:6---one would think the bible teaches 2 gods, but only because of translating errors.

 

[kjw47]

You did not answer my question, which was: "Could you provide such evidence that these teachings [RCC] are false, and I ask this being a non-Catholic and a non-Christian?".

They killed the members of their own religion on the allied side for Adolf Hitler--a mass murderer---not the Jesus of the bible--his opposite. Their actions prove they are far removed.

 

[Rick B]

Is that so difficult to say yes or no? What would you think if upon the question "is space relative?" i would delegate you to Wheeler's treatise on relativity? I can tell you straight away whether space is relative or not.

So, just one whee bit of information. Do the Son and the Father share the same knowledge?

Yes....or no?

Ciao

- viole

Sorry. I thought you honestly wanted to have knowledge of the premise I was proposing so that you could have an informed foundation to give a reasoned response.

If all you will accept is a one word response you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Kenny]

1+ 1= 2 and, in some cases,
1 + 1 = 10

Even though this is true, my experience tells me that you might get the impression I do not know what I am talking about.

Am I wrong?

Ciao

- viole

Did you know that the heart has a brain too?

Am I right?

A pesto

- me

 

[Kenny]

Fact--The bible teaches not even an angel is to get worship--Only to God.
Every trinity translation on earth has mortals bowing in worship to a mortal( Jesus)= never occurred.
.

Actually, a statement of opinion doesn't make it true.

I find that in the Greek, angels as well as mortals worshipped Jesus.

 

[Rick B]

Fact--The bible teaches not even an angel is to get worship--Only to God.
Every trinity translation on earth has mortals bowing in worship to a mortal( Jesus)= never occurred.
Jesus was LOWER than the angels while on earth-a mortal( Hebrews 2:7-9) -- reality--They bowed in obeisance to their king, not in worship---a translating error to mislead--contradicts Gods truth.
Errors make it look like Jesus is God.
Error at John 1:1--no capitol G God belongs in the last line --it makes the 2nd line read--And God was with God--that is an impossibility--there is one God to all-The Father-1Cor 8:6---one would think the bible teaches 2 gods, but only because of translating errors.

The adamant rejection of the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity and the Deity of Christ was the driving factor of the organization your yoked to produce it's own, unique bible.

FYI The Greek magiscules have all capital letters. No spaces. No punctuations.

 

[metis]

They killed the members of their own religion on the allied side for Adolf Hitler--a mass murderer---not the Jesus of the bible--his opposite.

What are you talking about? The RCC didn't have a military in the war, nor did they support Hitler. Matter of fact, Hitler gained less support in Catholic Bavaria than in the Protestant areas in the north to the point that he refused to go to that area after a while.

BTW, were not talking about WWII but dealing with Catholic theology, so it seems you're just grasping for straws.

 

[metis]

A pesto

I love it with pasta with a good parmesan.