The Bible, its Pussyfooting Translators, and its Lack of Veracity

[omega2xx]

Our discusion is over. I have encountered delusional people like yourself many times, it always turns out to be a waste of time. You win.

Amusing, but sad, when someone can't defend their position or refute the other persons position they have to resort to insults. A great indication of their intellect and manners.

Forums are not a contest to win or lose, it is a place to exchange ideas and to learn from others.

 

[allfoak]

Amusing, but sad, when someone can't defend their position or refute the other persons position they have to resort to insults. A great indication of their intellect and manners.

Forums are not a contest to win or lose, it is a place to exchange ideas and to learn from others.

The only thing there is to learn from people like yourself is to stay away from them.

 

[Aštra’el]

The following is intended to bring out the fact that some of the Bible's translators deliberately pussyfooted around its more difficult/embarrassing passages, very likely to more easily sell Christianity, but in turn torpedoed its veracity. Hardly an admirable enterprise, especially by those who expect us to believe they're dedicated to God's "truth."

My example is Isaiah 45:7 (a verse I've used before for other reasons) wherein God says:

(KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

In examining 30 different translations I found the Hebrew רַ רַע (ra`) is given nine different meanings. By far the most common and probably most demeaning to God is "evil," as noted above in the King James Version. Evil exists because God deliberately creates it---please note that the word is "creates" and not "created." God continues to create evil---anyone care to make a guess as to why?.

"Evil" occurs in 14 (47%) of the 30 translations I looked at. Reasoning that no translator would select a word that is more unfavorable to god than not, and that "evil" is the predominant translation, I think it's fair to conclude it's most likely the correct translation: God said he creates evil. So what about those translations that don't translate רַ רַע (ra`) as "evil"?

That's where I believe the pussyfooting comes in. In the other 16 translations of Isaiah 45:7 the translators chose not to tell the reader that god creates evil---God forbid!---but that he does something far less dastardly. Five of them say he creates "disasters," and three of them say he creates "calamity." Two of them say he creates "troubles," whereas another two say he creates "woe." The other four individually say he creates, "bad times," "discord," "doom," and "hard times." This is quite a spread, going from a god who creates evil to a god who only creates hard times. The point here isn't that various translators wrote conflicting things about god, but the implication behind the why of it. The implication, as I see it, being: If the translators have no compunctions about how they present the nature of God in order to save his image, something I would think to be sacrosanct, how can they be trusted not to have changed other equally important "facts" in the Bible? An attempt, more likely than not, to preserve their theology, and make Christianity an easier sell. If, in fact, "evil" is what God actually said then 53% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers. AND, if "hard times" is, for instance, what God actually said, then 94% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers.

My conclusion: So much for the claimed veracity of the Bible and those who translated it. At least half the translators couldn't bring themselves to tell the truth because they felt it would not only hurt their image of God, but hurt Christianity as well.
If you feel I've got it wrong here I welcome a better explanation for the translator's pussyfooting. AND why one shouldn't be suspicious of everything in the Bible.


.

I have noticed you going on about Christian "translations" during several topics, but have you really reached out to those who study these scriptures in their original language, who study also the ancient context and understandings of the language used?

 

[allfoak]

I have noticed you going on about Christian "translations" during several topics, but have you really reached out to those who study these scriptures in their original language, who study also the ancient context and understandings of the language used?

This is @Skwim's way of reaching out. If it wasn't for him and a few others it would be really boring around here.

 

[omega2xx]

The only thing there is to learn from people like yourself is to stay away from them.

Thank you for your continued insults, which show show your true character. Keep up the good work, there may be some newcomers tot he forum who need to know what kind of a person you are.

It is amusing that you said you were going to ignore me, but here you are back already. I guess your word is not reliable.

 

[Kemosloby]

God tells it like it is, because God has no fear of us. Evil comes from when man has no due respect and fear of God. When man kept the one simple thing God told them to do, there was no evil which had manifested itself in the world, only the potential for evil, and death and hell beyond that door. But God warned them, and man did not believe God, he needed to manifest evil for his own eyes to see, rather than trusting in God by faith. God is not evil for creating evil, but man brought it on himself for not having faith in Gods word, instead doubting Gods word, needing proof that death would follow sin.

 

[Windwalker]

The truth is never nasty.

I am always saddened by Christians who absolve themselves of personal responsibility of their behaviors towards others claiming they're only speaking the truth. "It's not my words saying you and your little dog Toto too are going to fry in hell. It's the truth in the Bible!".

 

[David T]

(KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

In examining 30 different translations I found the Hebrew רַ רַע (ra`) is given nine different meanings. By far the most common and probably most demeaning to God is "evil," as noted above in the King James Version. Evil exists because God deliberately creates it---please note that the word is "creates" and not "created." God continues to create evil---anyone care to make a guess as to why?.

"Evil" occurs in 14 (47%) of the 30 translations I looked at. Reasoning that no translator would select a word that is more unfavorable to god than not, and that "evil" is the predominant translation, I think it's fair to conclude it's most likely the correct translation: God said he creates evil. So what about those translations that don't translate רַ רַע (ra`) as "evil"?

That's where I believe the pussyfooting comes in. In the other 16 translations of Isaiah 45:7 the translators chose not to tell the reader that god creates evil---God forbid!---but that he does something far less dastardly. Five of them say he creates "disasters," and three of them say he creates "calamity." Two of them say he creates "troubles," whereas another two say he creates "woe." The other four individually say he creates, "bad times," "discord," "doom," and "hard times." This is quite a spread, going from a god who creates evil to a god who only creates hard times. The point here isn't that various translators wrote conflicting things about god, but the implication behind the why of it. The implication, as I see it, being: If the translators have no compunctions about how they present the nature of God in order to save his image, something I would think to be sacrosanct, how can they be trusted not to have changed other equally important "facts" in the Bible? An attempt, more likely than not, to preserve their theology, and make Christianity an easier sell. If, in fact, "evil" is what God actually said then 53% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers. AND, if "hard times" is, for instance, what God actually said, then 94% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers.

My conclusion: So much for the claimed veracity of the Bible
If you feel I've got it wrong here I welcome a better explanation for the translator's pussyfooting. AND why one shouldn't be suspicious of everything in the Bible.

You should be highly suspicious of everything in your head. You have already pointed out that you are suspicious of what's in others heads without examining your own. Interestingly all one has to do is replace the word God with nature and it suddenly makes a bit more sense at least locally specifically in certain verses. But the whole approach you take to the text is identical to being. Christian. Since ken ham built a building modeled after a modern oil tanker, with dinosaurs on it, and an amimatromic Jesus to meet you I might say the whole entire approach he takes to reading the texttubes yours. You might want to consider that there may be confusion on religion about the text. I know a completely novel idea but you shouldn't allow the Ken Hams determine how you reason which you seem to want to match!!!! Just a suggestion.

 

[buddhist]

As I've also found in other instances, words are translated in certain ways to seemingly align with current Judaeo-Christian theology.

 

[columbus]

My conclusion: So much for the claimed veracity of the Bible and those who translated it. At least half the translators couldn't bring themselves to tell the truth because they felt it would not only hurt their image of God, but hurt Christianity as well.

I've long advocated for a truly useful Miracle, a Scripture that everybody gets the same meaning from.
Tom

 

[omega2xx]

I am always saddened by Christians who absolve themselves of personal responsibility of their behaviors towards others claiming they're only speaking the truth.

I didn't absolve myself of anything, I explained it and I did not claim I was speaking the truth.

"It's not my words saying you and your little dog Toto too are going to fry in hell. It's the truth in the Bible!".

Isn't this amusing? The one who is criticizing my behavior now says I will fry in hell. You need to change your little ditty of love, light and life. that you think describes you. How sad.

What I find in the Bible is do not judge.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

God is not evil for creating evil, but man brought it on himself for not having faith in Gods word, instead doubting Gods word, needing proof that death would follow sin.

Humanity discovered evil, but it was God who put it there.

 

[omega2xx]

Humanity discovered evil, but it was God who put it there.

How do you know that?

 

[Windwalker]

I didn't absolve myself of anything, I explained it and I did not claim I was speaking the truth.

that's not what I read.

Isn't this amusing? The one who is criticizing my behavior now says I will fry in hell. You need to change your little ditty of love, light and life. that you think describes you. How sad.

I was not saying you were. Read it again. I don't believe hell exists. I was using the voice of irony of those who claim it's not their words but God's when they tell others something nasty.

What I find in the Bible is do not judge.

that's what I see in there too. I also see Christians not doing that, claiming it's not them judging others, but the Bible. I consider that insincere, to say the very least possible.

 

[jeager106]

The Facts and Stats on 33000 Denominations: World Christian Encyclopedia (2001, 2nd edition)

33,000 denominations of Christians ALL reading essentially the SAME BOOK.
Are there really 33,000 denominations? Pro'ly but I've read as many as
40,000. Take your pick.
Most all Christian denominations believe THEIR denomination is correct
and other's are wrong.
Well there's a whole lot of somebodies hell bound I think.
The Westboro Baptists march with signs saying "God hates ****." and
other kind things. "**** are hell bound." they say.
Nice Christian values what?
Fortunately the membership of the Westboro Baptists are only about
80 misguided souls.

link:
westboro baptist church - AOL Image Search Results

Check out the true Christian love that abounds.
Shameful.

 

[buddhist]

Check out the true Christian love that abounds.
Shameful.

Well, to be clear, IMO Christianity isn't just about love. It's also about bloody, eternal revenge (read Revelation).

 

[McBell]

Isn't it ironic and very amusing, when someone trying to discredit the Bible actually reinforces the accuracy of it?

What is ironic is that for all your whining and unChristian like posts, you have not shown how the OP is wrong.
You have not shown anything other than your unwillingness to directly address the contents of the OP.

One must ask what it is you are trying to divert attention from.

 

[Kemosloby]

What is ironic is that for all your whining and unChristian like posts, you have not shown how the OP is wrong.
You have not shown anything other than your unwillingness to directly address the contents of the OP.

One must ask what it is you are trying to divert attention from.

I believe the intent of Christians is to present the "Good News" not the bad news. By presenting Christ as the savior of mankind, we need not dwell on any evil.

 

[McBell]

I believe the intent of Christians is to present the "Good News" not the bad news. By presenting Christ as the savior of mankind, we need not dwell on any evil.

I suspect you do not mean to...

However, this kinda makes it sound like a dirty salesman proposition.
Puff up the good and ignore the bad.

Such sales tactics are dishonest at best.

 

[Kemosloby]

I suspect you do not mean to...

However, this kinda makes it sound like a dirty salesman proposition.
Puff up the good and ignore the bad.

Such sales tactics are dishonest at best.

No because if you buy a used car with defects you will suffer for it, but Jesus is no used car.