The Bible, its Pussyfooting Translators, and its Lack of Veracity

[omega2xx]

What is ironic is that for all your whining and unChristian like posts, you have not shown how the OP is wrong.
You have not shown anything other than your unwillingness to directly address the contents of the OP.

One must ask what it is you are trying to divert attention from.

When you show I am whinning and have posted an unChristisn like post, get back to me.

 

[omega2xx]

Where's the ignorance?

Not understand the subject.

This is what you sound like: "you hurt my feelings so you're ignorant!"

How silly. Let me assure you no one in this forum can hurt my feelings and the one who started this thread is ignorant of the Bible.

Give me a break.

I'm willing to bet I know the bible far better than you do.

Wonderful. Give me something you think you know better than me and I will try to to hurt your feeling when we see that I may know more than you do. If you prefer, I will give you a passage to interpret and see if you really do understand it.

 

[omega2xx]

So you *are* saying that God deliberately inflicts calamity on humanity?

In fact, in the context of the verse quoted in the OP, I'd say that it implies that God is the ultimate source of ALL calamity. Do you agree?

Yes God inflicts calamity on His people when the go astray and serve other gods. You see it throughout the OT.

Probably the most misquoted verse in the Bible is probably Prov 13:24. We hear it as "spare the rod and spoil the child." It actually says, "He who withholds his rod hates his son, but he who loves him, disciplines him diligently.

God is not the source of all calamities, Adam and Eve's disobedience is the cause of most of them.

 

[omega2xx]

Both because it's the only logical conclusion to be drawn from omnimax God image and also because the Bible says so.
Adam and Eve may have eaten the fruit, but God put it there.
Tom

Of course God put it there but they wee warned not to eat it. Ifd they had obeyed, ther would be no evil in teh world.

What is a omnimax God image?

 

[McBell]

When you show I am whinning and have posted an unChristisn like post, get back to me.

More avoidance of the OP....
No worries, you weren't being taken seriously anyway.

 

[columbus]

What is a omnimax God image?

Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God is generally referred to as omnimax. Sometimes omnibenevolent for good measure.
That means that God put whatever poison was in the fruit there, knowing what would happen. And that Eve wouldn't know what would happen and could easily be deceived by another of omnimax God's creations, the serpent. And God was right there with her when the serpent was talking with her. And afterwards He decided not to do anything fix this problem. He punished them instead of fixing the problem.

Of course God put it there but they wee warned not to eat it. Ifd they had obeyed, ther would be no evil in teh world.

The utter illogic of the Christian spin on this story leaves me unable to believe in the humans who tell it to me. The logic is like putting a 2 y/o in a room with a loaded gun and pointing at it saying "Don't touch this ", and leaving the room. Then punishing them for shooting their own leg off. Sorry, that doesn't work for my modern moral code. But I do understand why primitive people with primitive moral understanding would not see the ethical problem here. Why modern people, with centuries more learning to draw upon, buy this I don't know. I assume it's because they are so attached to their theological beliefs that they can't tell right from wrong.
Tom
PS ~Another plausible possibility is that Genesis God wasn't omnimax, and Christian God is just a different god. Christians don't usually like that option either~

 

[allfoak]

I do find it interesting that the more closed minded someone is about what the Bible means, the more likely they are to declare the ignorance of others when it comes to what the Bible means.

You should find it interesting cause your right on the money.
We often blame others for our own lack.

 

[allfoak]

The logic is like putting a 2 y/o in a room with a loaded gun and pointing at it saying "Don't touch this ", and leaving the room. Then punishing them for shooting their own leg off. Sorry, that doesn't work for my modern moral code.

Ignorance is not sin.
Which means that the Christian version of sin is about as horrible as it gets.

 

[omega2xx]

More avoidance of the OP....
No worries, you weren't being taken seriously anyway.

Could you show me the poll you took to confirm what you said?

 

[Windwalker]

You certainly implied I was going to hell, and if you want to talk about irony, why would suggest I am going to place you don't think exists?

You have to be a troll. No one reading what I wrote would take that as me saying you're going to hell. If I was to say what I really think, I'd be clear about it like saying you are completely out of touch with any meaningful self awareness. That's what I would say, were I going after you....

How do you know they were Christians? What I find insincere is the wide brush you use to try and paint all Christians with your few examples.

Who's claiming all Christians here? I was targeting those who do what you are doing. Quit being a troll, please. Actually, I'm not going to waste my time. Onto the ignore list you go. Nothing meaningful will come of this.

 

[omega2xx]

Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God is generally referred to as omnimax. Sometimes omnibenevolent for good measure.

Well today hasn't been a total loss, I learned something. Thanks

That means that God put whatever poison was in the fruit there, knowing what would happen. And that Eve wouldn't know what would happen and could easily be deceived by another of omnimax God's creations, the serpent. And God was right there with her when the serpent was talking with her. And afterwards He decided not to do anything fix this problem. He punished them instead of fixing the problem.

You wsere doing sdo will, then you hit the silly button.

The utter illogic of the Christian spin on this story leaves me unable to believe in the humans who tell it to me. The logic is like putting a 2 y/o in a room with a loaded gun and pointing at it saying "Don't touch this ", and leaving the room. Then punishing them for shooting their own leg off. Sorry, that doesn't work for my modern moral code. But I do understand why primitive people with primitive moral understanding would not see the ethical problem here. Why modern people, with centuries more learning to draw upon, buy this I don't know. I assume it's because they are so attached to their theological beliefs that they can't tell right from wrong.
Tom

Most people only have a silly button, you have a silly button and a sillier button.

PS ~Another plausible possibility is that Genesis God wasn't omnimax, and Christian God is just a different god. Christians don't usually like that option either~[/QUOTE]

Until you can offer a better explnation of how matter, energy and life originated, it is more plausible than anything you want to suggest. Why don't you tell us how those things originated. I need a good laugh here at the end of the day.

 

[omega2xx]

You have to be a troll. No one reading what I wrote would take that as me saying you're going to hell. If I was to say what I really think, I'd be clear about it like saying your are completely out of touch with any meaningful self awareness. That's what I would say, were I going after you....


Who's claiming all Christians here? I was targeting those who do what you are doing. Quit being a troll, please. Actually, I'm not going to waste my time. Onto the ignore list you go.

Don't forget to cover your ears and yell at the top of your voice, "it isn't so, it isn't so.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

The Good Doctor said: ↑
Where's the ignorance?

Not understand the subject.

This is what you sound like: "you hurt my feelings so you're ignorant!"

How silly. Let me assure you no one in this forum can hurt my feelings and the one who started this thread is ignorant of the Bible.

Give me a break.

I'm willing to bet I know the bible far better than you do.
Wonderful. Give me something you think you know better than me and I will try to to hurt your feeling when we see that I may know more than you do. If you prefer, I will give you a passage to interpret and see if you really do understand it.

Provide one example where I have shown that I don't understand "the subject" and explain why I am deficient in my understanding of it.

Now the second part is very important if you are to gain any credibility here.

This should be fun.

If you were to provide me with a passage of the bible to interpret, and I were to provide you with an interpretation, you would spin in such a way that would prevent it from being discussed objectively. I'm not going to accommodate that type of garbage. Nice try moron.

 

[omega2xx]

Provide one example where I have shown that I don't understand "the subject" and explain why I am deficient in my understanding of it.

I haven't read enough of your post to know what to what to suggest as a test.

Now the second part is very important if you are to gain any credibility here.

This should be fun.

If you were to provide me with a passage of the bible to interpret, and I were to provide you with an interpretation, you would spin in such a way that would prevent it from being discussed objectively. I'm not going to accommodate that type of garbage. Nice try moron.

Is third grade insults the best you can do. If you are afraid to put me to the test,I understand, but I won't insult you. Do you really think insulting someone is a sign of a high intellect?

 

[Timothy Bryce]

I haven't read enough of your post to know what to what to suggest as a test.

Hahahaha - I asked you to prove one example and you failed to do that.

The translation of your comment is: "No, sorry The Good Doctor, I couldn't find an example. I was wrong to insinuate that your posts were expressing ignorance."

Is third grade insults the best you can do. If you are afraid to put me to the test,I understand, but I won't insult you. Do you really think insulting someone is a sign of a high intellect?

As long as we're discussing the third grade, maybe help yourself to a third grade grammar text book.

You already conceded that your supposed "test" is garbage in your above comment.

Afraid? Oh please...

You have nothing that indicates that I'm shying away from any form of debate and you have offered absolutely zero insight to this thread at all.

Well done.

I wouldn't say that the ability to insult people is a prerequisite for superior intellectualism but it certainly does not disqualify a person from being characterized in that way.

Protip: Sometimes ad hominems (that's smart people talk for "insult") can serve as a form of useful rhetoric in exposing ideas or threads of discussion that are worthy of ridicule - just like I did to you in my prior post.

 

[Aštra’el]

(KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

What a badáss verse.

Nope. I haven't had any reason to. As I've pointed out elsewhere, it doesn't matter what the original words were or their meaning.

It can certainly be fascinating and enlightening.

What matters is what the Bibles today are telling their readers is the truth, and If they are misleading the Christian reader then shame on them.

And by "truth", you mean what exactly? Complete historical accuracy, deviod of any deep yet metaphorical and allegorical myths? Never mind any invaluable insights into individual and collective human Nature and ancient cultures. Never mind any strength or power or wisdom that might be found in these scriptures that one might absorb and embrace in a way that exponentially increases one's ability to achieve one's goals.

One would think god would see to it that this doesn't happen; that his word would be passed down exactly as he meant it to be, and any potential misinterpretation would be nipped in the bud before it got out to the public.

I see no reason why this would be the case.

JUST A NOTE OF INTEREST.
It seems no one cares about the fact that the translators of the Bible pussyfooted around the interpretation of the Hebrew רַ רַע (ra`), and in so doing should pretty much eliminate any trust in the Bible. Of course I readily recognize the propensity of many Christians to ignore the Bible's failings in favor of holding on to its promise, which, while understandable, is hardly noble or virtuous. So maybe this shouldn't be surprising at all. Hmmmmmm.

I understand that you are flailing around lashing out in whatever way you feel you can, and I'm gonna let you finish, but that verse you quoted in the OP one of the most awesome verses of all time...no matter what the translation.

 

[omega2xx]

Hahahaha - I asked you to prove one example and you failed to do that.

The translation of your comment is: "No, sorry The Good Doctor, I couldn't find an example. I was wrong to insinuate that your posts were expressing ignorance."



As long as we're discussing the third grade, maybe help yourself to a third grade grammar text book.

You already conceded that your supposed "test" is garbage in your above comment.

Afraid? Oh please...

You have nothing that indicates that I'm shying away from any form of debate and you have offered absolutely zero insight to this thread at all.

Well done.

I wouldn't say that the ability to insult people is a prerequisite for superior intellectualism but it certainly does not disqualify a person from being characterized in that way.

Protip: Sometimes ad hominems (that's smart people talk for "insult") can serve as a form of useful rhetoric in exposing ideas or threads of discussion that are worthy of ridicule - just like I did to you in my prior post.

Thanks for all the irrelevant rhetoric. Do you want to put me to the test or not? Or have you recognized you have bit off more than you can chew?

All you have done is run away from something YOU suggested.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Both because it's the only logical conclusion to be drawn from omnimax God image and also because the Bible says so.
Adam and Eve may have eaten the fruit, but God put it there.
Tom

@omega2xx Also, this clashes with the Egyptian culture prevalent at the time in which gods, particularly Pharoahs, rule; and people are supposed obey. This is one of multiple Bible stories in which man struggles with gods and wins. In this story, Adam and Eve are the winners. There is another story where Jacob struggles with an angel and gets away with only a limp. Moses becomes a god to pharoah in the Exodus. The sun yields to Joshua in a battle. If you look you can find numerous ways that this is a repeatable thing.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I don't have a problem with "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Mercy and love might be seen more clearly as if diamond sparkling on black velvet.

Of course the superlapsarian vs infralapsarians see this slightly different
In both views God is good and will be good overall to achieve the greatest good
There was a mix of superlapsarian and infralapsarians in the making of the Heidleburg confession and later in the Westminster confession the infralapsarian view was a bit more dominant.

But practical setting aside theological technicalities... even the book of proverbs says 'has a disaster come upon a city and has not the Lord done it' God superintends everyone for his purposes and even for the good of those who love Him.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

Thanks for all the irrelevant rhetoric. Do you want to put me to the test or not? Or have you recognized you have bit off more than you can chew?

All you have done is run away from something YOU suggested.

What TEST? What are you even talking about?

I already said that an exercise in interpreting a biblical passage as a means to gauge one's understanding of the bible is a completely redundant thing to do and means nothing due to the inherent subjectivity in doing so; that renders such a "test" as complete garbage.

Looks like I was right to call you a moron.

But hey - if you want to sling me a quote to interpret - go right ahead dude. I'll even let you set the rules and standards for your stupid test. It's Christmas, the office is pretty boring.