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The Biden Question

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Show me where I ever said the 2020 election was stolen. Then maybe after you calm down we can have a conversation.
The statement made by Trump was completely clear -- nothing cryptic about it at all. And yet, you asked me what he said he meant. How would I know? I don't have a Truth Social account, nor a Twitter (sorry, X) account. This is my only social media (except for my new-found family on Facebook).

But to ask me that question suggests strongly that you do not think he meant what his words say -- and it is on that basis I made the assumption that you accept them for what they do say. How could I do otherwise?

And I am quite calm, thank you very much. I am, however, very concerned about a Trump presidency for the simple reason that I am actually studying in great depth everything to do with this election -- and I'm not even an American! But my nation would be severely hurt if he wins -- I am absolutely certain of that. And I'm not big into having my nation hurt. I'm sure you can understand that.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
The statement made by Trump was completely clear -- nothing cryptic about it at all. And yet, you asked me what he said he meant. How would I know? I don't have a Truth Social account, nor a Twitter (sorry, X) account. This is my only social media (except for my new-found family on Facebook).
I asked you what you thought it meant because you were using it to make a point. I thought you would have an idea what it meant.
But to ask me that question suggests strongly that you do not think he meant what his words say -- and it is on that basis I made the assumption that you accept them for what they do say. How could I do otherwise?

And I am quite calm, thank you very much. I am, however, very concerned about a Trump presidency for the simple reason that I am actually studying in great depth everything to do with this election -- and I'm not even an American! But my nation would be severely hurt if he wins -- I am absolutely certain of that. And I'm not big into having my nation hurt. I'm sure you can understand that.
I never have claimed the election was stolen. I have claimed there was fraud and unconstitutional actions by states. I have no idea if it was enough to turn the election.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
No where in the constitution does it allow for bureaucrats to make laws or spend money. The Dems use the large bureaucracy to make laws and spend money in violation of the constitution.
Since government agencies don't allot their own budgets you must be refering to congress here. And congress is explained in Article 1 of the Constitution. Congress can make laws and create budgets and spending.
The dems like to create rights that the constitution does not give.
Do you mean like citizens carrying guns in public and when no militias exist any more? That was right wing republicans who created that. Or do you mean the right to abortion? That was majority republicans who decided that in the 70's. Then they took it away in a more extremist attitude in the 2020's.
Trump wants to dismantle this bureaucracy. The also made election laws for the presidential election in violation of the US constitution.
Then how will government function?
Normal border policy where we limit as many illegal entries as possible with the goal of zero illegal entries
That is something Biden did with an executive order, so no need for Trump. And no president can prevent what you call "illegal entries", not even Trump, and not even where he installed his bits of wall.
Deport people that are here illegally
That already happens, so no need for Trump. And realize no one can be deported to their original country if they won't accept them back. Trump's plan to deport millions is absurd. Where will he get the people and the money to pay for it?
Ending citizenship of children born of illegal parents
Do you mean go against the 14th Amendment of the Constitution?
Goal of energy independence
That's green energy, and so far Trump just wants to drill for oil which is a global commodity that is traded on the global market, even if it is American oil sold in America. Oil means no independence.
Rebuilding our oil strategic reserves
Biden did a great job of releasing oil reseved when the price was high which broght gas prices down, and then rebought oil when the prive was low, thus profiting over 500 billion for the USA.
Rebuilding the military
Why? How is Trump going to pay for it and also keep his tax cuts?
Trade agreements that benefit the US worker and not foreign countries
Trump's plans of tarffs has bee widely criticized by economists, so not a very smart man.
Normal law enforcement, fund the police, aggressively prosecute violent criminals and career criminals
You don't think this exists already? Where's the money going to come from?
Restore peace in the middle east, support Israel against terrorists whose stated mission is the kill all the Jews
The Middle East will forever be in conflict, Trump didn't fix it the first time. Remember?
Restore parents rights about their children's activities and healthcare in our school system
Restore from when? The 1700's? They already have rights. But there is also public health standards that many parents might not be well educated about. If parents want unvaccinated kids they can form some strange community somewhere away from the well educated.
Restore free speech rights in America, remove government censorship in social media
This isn't a real thing. Citizens have rights. The government isn't censoring anything. I remember correcting your error of government advising social media about fake news, and the SCOTUS sided with the government.
Ensure honest and lawful elections, ID requirements to vote
That's what democrats are working for, not republicans, and certainly not Trump. Remember Trump called state election officials asking them to find him votes that didn't exit so he could win. Fox in the hen house.
Restrict funding to Iran that Biden allowed after Biden took office to keep them from producing a nuclear weapon if it not already too late.
More disinformation. You mean the frozen money that belonged to Iran and Biden allowed them to have it back.
Stand up to China, Russia, N Korea and Iran
That isn't Trump, he says these guys are his friends.
Restrict transwomen from women's sports
Wow, Make America Great Again by targeting a fringe group of citizens over a minor issue that can be dealt with by sport federations.
Restrict trans surgeries and treatments for minors
So much for your parent's rights position, eh? No one likes hypocrits. Can't have it both ways.
Stop transferring legal debt from people that took out a loan freely to the public
Like banks? Oh no, they get bailed out. You mean ordinry citizens whose circumstances means they are in huge financial holes. Individuals are expected to be perfect and accountable, but not greedy bankers. That's why the right wing is out of touch.
Low interest rates and low inflation
Feel free to explain how Trump will make this magic happen. Of course you have zero data because it's an absurd claim. That you aren't even aware that this is a bogus claim suggests how right wingers just repeat what they hear without thinking.
Remove Racist DEI initiatives etc.
Oh the irony. So diversity and equality is racist? Sounds like you read this on a bumper sticker and didn't think it though.
This are just a few things that need to get back to normal, these are not radical ideas but common sense ideas that used to be the norm. Most of the country feels this way on both sides.
Most of it is a fantasy, and not normal at all. Government needs to be run realistically, which Trump just can't do. And he has influenced his followers to not think either. Followers are like drones, they don't think for themselves.
The dem party is a radical party and does not reflect the values of most Americans.
This isn't true, it's just your right wing extremism being biased.
you are seeing that in the polls where minorities are turning to Trump.
The polling is unreliable, but I can understand why you want to think minorities are siding with a racist.
I said it was political I never said it wasn't real. The Bragg case was brought by a prosecutor that said during his campaign he would get Trump.
Most prosecutors campaign by promising to go after criminals. As we know Trump has a long hostory of criminal behavior and fraud, and he got caught yet again. You seem surprized. Or maybe you think Trump is above the law? No he isn't.
So this was a case of Bragg spending time and effort to find something he could prosecute Trump on in a Manhattan courtroom that he would get convicted of basically anything.
Yup, he found evidence and a jury convicted him. Trump isn't even a smart criminal.
That is not ethical, I bet he could find something on Biden if he wanted to.
There has to be a crime, and also evidence of that crime. Trump commited crimes and got caught.
You know that this case would never have been brought if his name was not Trump.
Sorry but there have been many hundreds of cases of business fraud. Trump has been found guilty of many cases of fraud. He's avoided jail so far, but that might end in September.
It is a weak legal theory that resurrected an expired law and somehow made it into a federal crime. This is obvious to most people with common sense.
Sorry, it is the law in Ney York. Trump should have not been corrupt and committed crimes.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Today's NYT Editorial Board asserts:


and concludes:

Mr. Trump is manifestly unfit to serve as president, and there is reason to believe a majority of the American people still can be rallied against his candidacy. But Democrats will struggle to press that case with voters so long as their own standard-bearer is a man who also appears unfit to serve as president for the next four years, albeit for very different reasons.​
The 2024 presidential election is not a contest between two men, or even between two political parties. It is a battle for who we are as a nation.​
President Biden clearly understands the stakes. But he seems to have lost track of his own role in this national drama. As the situation has become more dire, he has come to regard himself as indispensable. He does not seem to understand that he is now the problem — and that the best hope for Democrats to retain the White House is for him to step aside.​

The Democratic Party is facing painfully difficult test. Fortunately, I am not.

I will vote for the candidate put forward by the Democratic Party simply because any other response would be ethically irresponsible and, possibly, irredeemably so. If that candidate is President Biden, so be it. The choice between supporting a candidate facing cognitive decline versus enabling a candidate championing America's decline is an easy one.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I have claimed there was fraud and unconstitutional actions by states. I have no idea if it was enough to turn the election.
William Barr said that there was no evidence of enough potential fraud to seriously question the results of the election.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Since government agencies don't allot their own budgets you must be refering to congress here. And congress is explained in Article 1 of the Constitution. Congress can make laws and create budgets and spending.
Ah yeah. This is my point, we have government agencies making decisions about appropriations and making up laws that only congress is authorized to do.
Do you mean like citizens carrying guns in public and when no militias exist any more? That was right wing republicans who created that. Or do you mean the right to abortion? That was majority republicans who decided that in the 70's. Then they took it away in a more extremist attitude in the 2020's.
Gun right are in the constitution and upheld by the supreme court that it relates to the individual. So no, I am not talking about gun rights. Abortion is not in the constitution and is rightly decided by each state. Where is healthcare a right in the constitution?
Then how will government function?
How did the constitution function on day 1? There was no department of education or department of agriculture etc. I am not saying we don't need some bureaucracy, but we need far less than we have now.
That is something Biden did with an executive order, so no need for Trump. And no president can prevent what you call "illegal entries", not even Trump, and not even where he installed his bits of wall.
I never said we can stop all illegal entries. I said our goal should be zero illegal entries.
That already happens, so no need for Trump. And realize no one can be deported to their original country if they won't accept them back. Trump's plan to deport millions is absurd. Where will he get the people and the money to pay for it?
Do you think we should deport people that are in the US illegally?
Do you mean go against the 14th Amendment of the Constitution?
No, how about working toward the process to change the 14th amendment to a more reasonable policy.
That's green energy, and so far Trump just wants to drill for oil which is a global commodity that is traded on the global market, even if it is American oil sold in America. Oil means no independence.
This is laughable. We have fossil fuels here and can be energy independent with that. How can we be energy independent with green energy when we don't have the supply of minerals to make the batteries we will need? We depend on other nations for that.
Biden did a great job of releasing oil reseved when the price was high which broght gas prices down, and then rebought oil when the prive was low, thus profiting over 500 billion for the USA.
The number is around $4B, still a lot of money.
Why? How is Trump going to pay for it and also keep his tax cuts?
That is two different things. Tax cuts can either stimulate the economy or cause inflation if the economy is going well, it is not a linear thing as far as I have read. We have to increase our spending on the military, it is not an option. Trump has not said how he would pay for it. I suggest getting rid of federal bureaucracy that is not needed
You don't think this exists already? Where's the money going to come from?
Which is it? If it is already happening then no more money will be needed.
The Middle East will forever be in conflict, Trump didn't fix it the forst time. Remember?
Ok,
Restore from when? The 1700's? They already have rights. But there is also public health standards that many parents might not be well educated about. If parents want unvaccinated kids they can form some strange community somewhere away from the well educated.
I am not for unvaccinated kids by choice in our school system. They can find another means of education. I do think parents should be told about any mental health issues the child has.
This isn't a real thing. Citizens have rights. The government isn;t sensoring anything. I remember correcting your error of government advising social media about fake news, and the SCOTUS sided with the government.
So you agree with every SCOTUS decision? If not, don't bring it up as evidence for your stance. I read the emails, government officials were asking Twitter to censor american's posts. Free speech includes false speech as well.
That's what democrats are working for, not republicans, and certainly not Trump.
Again laughable. Right now they are opposing a bill that would require each state to make sure everyone voting is a US citizen.
More disinformation. You mean the frozen money that belonged to Iran and Biden allowed them to have it back.
Yes, that money.
That isn;t Trump, he says these guys are his friends.
Please read what Trump actually says about them.
Wow, Make America Great Again by targeting a fringe group of citizens over a minor issue that can be dealth with by sport federations.
It is a real concern to have boys in girls bathrooms and competing against girls.
So much for your parent's rights position, eh? No one likes hypocrits. Can't have it noth ways.
So you think I cannot be for parents rights and be against abusing children at the same time?
Like banks? Oh no, they get bailed out. You mean ordinry citizens whose circumstances means they are in huge financial holes.
I never brought up banks. I am not for government bailouts of banks and I am not for government bailout of student loans that were freelky taken out.
Oh the irony, So diversity and equality is racist? Sounds like you read this on a bumper sticker and didn't think it though.
I never said that. I said DEI often implemented can be racist. I have seen it first hand.
Most of it is a fantasy, and not normal at all. Government needs to be run realistically, which Trump just can't do. And he has influenced his followers to not think either. Followers are like drones, they don't think for themselves.
Ok,
This isn't true, it's just your right wing extremism being biased.
Ok
The polling is unreliable, but I can understand why you want to think minorities are siding with a racist.
put your head in the sand and deny what is happening and call names.

We can go back and forth and you can call me names all year long. The bottom line is we disagree.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Biden may be slowing down with age -- I certainly am -- but he still knows what he's doing, that much is abundantly clear from his record during this term in office. But although perhaps slowing down, he surrounds himself with decent, competent staff who know what they're doing, care about America, and help him to put his agenda into action. That's not a bad thing.

Trump, by the way, is also losing it -- don't forget his shark/battery nonsense of just two weeks ago --but as we have already seen, he will surround himself with "loyalists," toadies and sycophants, who will also put his agenda -- which is Trump, more Trump and all Trump -- into action.

Which would you prefer?
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Biden may be slowing down with age -- I certainly am -- but he still knows what he's doing, that much is abundantly clear from his record during this term in office. But although perhaps slowing down, he surrounds himself with decent, competent staff who know what they're doing, care about America, and help him to put his agenda into action. That's not a bad thing.

Trump, by the way, is also losing it -- don't forget his shark/battery nonsense of just two weeks ago --but as we have already seen, he will surround himself with "loyalists," toadies and sycophants, who will also put his agenda -- which is Trump, more Trump and all Trump -- into action.

Which would you prefer?
If my chocies are Trump or Biden, it's simple Trump since I would hate to see a DEI president.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
If my chocies are Trump or Biden, it's simple Trump since I would hate to see a DEI president.
Really? Diversity frightens the bejeebers out of you, because everybody should look, think and act exactly the same as everybody else?; because equity is anathema?; and forget inclusion -- ban everybody even the slightest different?

There's a prescription for a boring, swigging-beer-in-the-trailer-park world. Hope you enjoy it.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
If my chocies are Trump or Biden, it's simple Trump since I would hate to see a DEI president.
So you don't want a president who advocates for diversity, equality, and inclusion. The alternative is racism and other forms of prejudice.

Why is this something you want to let others know about? Are you not ashamed to be against DEI? Is it because whites are going to be a minority as a category in the USA?
 
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