The Big Bang as evidence for God

[Milton Platt]

Maybe, there is no edge !
~
'mud

Maybe so, maybe not.......
Doesn't the current beg bang model suggest it has some outer limit? If id began with the big bang and is currently expanding, what is it expanding into?

 

[`mud]

Well Milt,
That's a very good question. where is that nothingness ?
And........an afterthought......... what contains it ?
Priests think up some strange ideas, don't they ?

~
'mud

 

[Ouroboros]

When the lids close and reopen again,
'time' will be gone, just as the 'now' will.
And on the furtherance of the thought,
the lids don't start their travel to closing,
the 'now' will be already past.
~
'mud

In a sense, we could restate "big bang as evidence for god" as the lid opening and closing as evidence for a box maker.

 

[`mud]

hey Ouro,
And the old question still arises.....
Where was 'God', not in the nothingness, I would think not,
but not in the singularity, was He ?
And......where was the water ?
~
Confused I still remain !
~
'mud

 

[Ouroboros]

hey Ouro,
And the old question still arises.....
Where was 'God', not in the nothingness, I would think not,
but not in the singularity, was He ?
And......where was the water ?
~
Confused I still remain !
~
'mud

It's the question that causes the confusion. Not looking for an answer is the answer.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

hey Milt,
"....outside of it."
Where is that 'edge' to be 'outside of ' ?
Where does nothingness begin ?
~
'mud

Here's a question....big bang theory says that in every direction you look, you are looking back to the center where the big bang emerged from nothingness....yet while the universe continues to expand into nothingness, there is no direction in which to look to see the edge where the universe meets nothingness....so what shape is the universe?

 

[`mud]

hey Ben,
Damned good question.....I've been asking that myself.
~
It's like asking: "what direction is out and in....especially the 'in'.
Where's the center.......why so many different directions,
why so many collisions.......creating 'gravity',
or the lack of it !
~
There is no 'edge', it's all fantasy,
but......where's the center of colloidal inflation ?
~
'mud

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Here's a question....big bang theory says that in every direction you look, you are looking back to the center where the big bang emerged from nothingness

It doesn't. The universe didn't emerge from any point such that there could exist a center whence it emerged.

 

[Ouroboros]

It doesn't. The universe didn't emerge from any point such that there could exist a center whence it emerged.

I think that's kind of what he meant, but more like if there's no point that's the center, then all points is the center for the big bang. All space is equally "centered" in a sense.

 

[Thief]

It doesn't. The universe didn't emerge from any point such that there could exist a center whence it emerged.

so all of this spinning, orbiting, spiraling....etc...etc...etc....
can be done without ...a 'point' of 'origin'?

 

[`mud]

hey Thief,
Everything from a point ?
Why are there galactic collisions ?
From a (point-0) into infinite directions away from that (source/cause),
what's missing here ???
~
'mud

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It doesn't. The universe didn't emerge from any point such that there could exist a center whence it emerged.

Hmm is that so....so lets check this out.....in this 3D space and time we call the universe, you are saying the singularity that emerged as 3D time and space 13.7 billion light years ago can not be said to be a reference central starting point in universal time and space....except the time part...it is agreed it happened about 13.7 billion years ago.

So the question now is.....why is not the Singularity Plank Era of the universe not considered the central starting point of the universe?

ps...I get it that we can not see a central point, but are seeing the CMBR that is the remnant omnipresent radiation post Plank Era....

 

[`mud]

and so on and so on and a lot of crap on the salad over there.
~
I'm not sure who to follow,
I'm just going to stand here and watch for awhile.
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

hey Thief,
Everything from a point ?
Why are there galactic collisions ?
From a (point-0) into infinite directions away from that (source/cause),
what's missing here ???
~
'mud

God

put the Spirit in the 'equation'.....so to speak....
and the picture will come clear

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Hmm is that so....so lets check this out.....in this 3D space and time we call the universe

That's 4D, not 3.

you are saying the singularity that emerged as 3D time and space 13.7 billion light years ago can not be said to be a reference central starting point in universal time and space

You can't have a central point for a space that consists of only a point.rs ago.

So the question now is.....why is not the Singularity Plank Era of the universe not considered the central starting point of the universe?

A myriad of reasons, but perhaps most obviously because there is no "center" to starting, the "Plank Era" [sic] wasn't any sort of starting of anything but a limit, if it were the "central" starting point this implies other starting points, and finally because the entirety of the big bang theory suggests neither a starting point nor a center but rather the emergence of both space and time in which such things could make sense (but only after the big bang).

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That's 4D, not 3.


You can't have a central point for a space that consists of only a point.rs ago.


A myriad of reasons, but perhaps most obviously because there is no "center" to starting, the "Plank Era" [sic] wasn't any sort of starting of anything but a limit, if it were the "central" starting point this implies other starting points, and finally because the entirety of the big bang theory suggests neither a starting point nor a center but rather the emergence of both space and time in which such things could make sense (but only after the big bang).

Time waster.....it is said.there are 3 dimension of space and one of time* .. ..do you not have anything more challenging to do than to whinge about the expression 3D space plus/and time? (* Fwiw...imho...time is not a dimension...but a measurement of movement in space)

What do you mean by "a point.rs ago"?

The Planck Era is the time from absolute zero...aka...Time = 0 to about 10-43 seconds.... Can you explain why Time = 0 is not the reference starting point of the 13.7 billion year age of the universe? Or are you playing pedantic games again implying Time = 0 is the zero point of emergence of both space and time not the start of it?...

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

..do you not have anything more challenging to do than to whinge about the expression 3D space plus/and time?

I wouldn't and won't if you can tell me something as simple as the equation of a line in this space and how long it would take a particle to go from point A to point B in this space.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I wouldn't and won't if you can tell me something as simple as the equation of a line in this space and how long it would take a particle to go from point A to point B in this space.

Obfuscation...deflection..misdirection....just address my post and stay on topic..

Here is an on topic question for you...are you implying that the big bang theory you expound here is settled science....that there is a consensus view on it among all cosmologists?...No unknown unknowns lurking at all?

 

[idav]

If it has nothing to do with mind...then it must exist independent of the mind....show me it?

The singularity would have been one with all of space and time, no mind needed, or maybe it could be seen as pure mind.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The singularity would have been one with all of space and time, no mind needed, or maybe it could be seen as pure mind.

idav...quite right...at the theoretical emergence/start of the singularity...there was no space or time...but this whole theory is a creation of the mind, and does not exist outside the mind. Iow, if it were real, it should be able to be proved....but it is not real in the sense a rock is real....the singularity big bang beginning is a concept of the human mind. Science teaches that time came from nothing...and furthermore science can't know how or why it did...because nothing being not real, doesn't allow for science to probe as to how time started or why....so it is lame to even ask... faith bro faith ...