The Big Bang as evidence for God

[LegionOnomaMoi]

The affect would exist from a third observer that would see one object slowing down and another object speeding up time keeping it relativistic. It isn't relative to an observer but relative to amount of mass.

Wow. Relativity isn't relative to observers, and somehow a theory in which there exists no absolute time or simultaneity somehow allows for "time" (which isn't treated independently of space in the theory) itself to "speed up." Ok, two questions:
1) Is there any source anywhere that describes what you are talking about and is at least as authoritative as Wikipedia? Clearly, either you are misunderstanding some source or misinterpreting some use of terminology.
2) Can you explain your understanding of proper time in special relativity?
To help:
"This effect is known as time dilation: the time interval between two events depends on the state of motion of the observer. The process in the (x, t) plane is illustrated in Fig. 1.12. We define the proper time interval between two events as the time interval measured by an observer who sees the two events occurring at the same point of space." (emphasis added)
Faraoni, V. (2013). Special relativity. Springer.

"This is the time dilation effect; the time between the two events depends on the observer. It is paradoxical only if one insists on thinking about time independently of the process of measurement of time."
Woodhouse, N. M. J. (2014). Relativity Today. In A. Ashtekar & V. Petkov (Eds.) Springer Handbook of Spacetime (pp. 39-60). Springer.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

They used that because gravity waves are so hard to detect directly, as your article says. And the article doesn't say we've detected gravity waves from the Big Bang, but that the detection of gravity waves is the "smoking gun" for the Big Bang.

I looked and looked for an explanation on the nature of gravitational waves that was as intuitive as my description of ripples of spacetime but didn't require you trusting that I know what I am talking about (most of my sources are too technical for your purposes). I finally found this:
"an electromagnetic wave is a distinct field disturbance propagating in spacetime. This field consists of oscillating electric and magnetic components which are perpendicular to the direction of the wave propagation direction. A gravitational wave is also an oscillating propagating disturbance but the disturbance is of spacetime itself! It is not an add-on to spacetime."
Cooperstock, F. I., & Tieu, S. (2012). Einstein's Relativity: The Ultimate Key to the Cosmos. Springer.

 

[idav]

Wow. Relativity isn't relative to observers, and somehow a theory in which there exists no absolute time or simultaneity somehow allows for "time" (which isn't treated independently of space in the theory) itself to "speed up." Ok, two questions:
1) Is there any source anywhere that describes what you are talking about and is at least as authoritative as Wikipedia? Clearly, either you are misunderstanding some source or misinterpreting some use of terminology.
2) Can you explain your understanding of proper time in special relativity?
To help:
"This effect is known as time dilation: the time interval between two events depends on the state of motion of the observer. The process in the (x, t) plane is illustrated in Fig. 1.12. We define the proper time interval between two events as the time interval measured by an observer who sees the two events occurring at the same point of space." (emphasis added)
Faraoni, V. (2013). Special relativity. Springer.

"This is the time dilation effect; the time between the two events depends on the observer. It is paradoxical only if one insists on thinking about time independently of the process of measurement of time."
Woodhouse, N. M. J. (2014). Relativity Today. In A. Ashtekar & V. Petkov (Eds.) Springer Handbook of Spacetime (pp. 39-60). Springer.

Have you seen the movie interstellar. Anyway fascinating that we are talking about this right now because it touched on this. Dilation is of space and time, one can traverse the universe instantaneously in theory. Are you saying the time dilation isn't real, a father would come back to a daughter his age. I don't know why the observer aspect is so important to you when time is literally paused in one point in space and not in another.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Dilation is of space and time

You've said this. But while length contraction and time dilation are described in sources as diverse as Wikipedia and YouTube clips to monographs on theoretical physics, nowhere is there anything about space dilation. When it comes to time dilation, you are simply misunderstanding what it is, but space dilation is something you've made up and I don't know where you are even getting the concept from.

one can traverse the universe instantaneously in theory.

1) This isn't dilation
2) This is impossible. It's prohibited by special relativity (actually, it's prohibited by modern physics in general, from quantum field theories to general relativity to the standard models of cosmology and particle physics).

Are you saying the time dilation isn't real

No, I'm saying exactly what I did and what the sources I've quoted state: it's a description of disagreements among the measurements of time intervals of observers in differing reference frames.

a father would come back to a daughter his age

In other words, there would exist a difference between observers over the time interval measured. That's the point. In special relativity, coordinate time is relative, which is why proper time is introduced. You can't think about time dilation accurately if you stick to a 3D space in which "time" unfolds. There is no time. Differences in age in special relativity are like differences in location.

I don't know why the observer aspect is so important to you when time is literally paused in one point in space and not in another.

What's important to me is the fundamentally incorrect interpretation of special relativity and the even more problematic explanation of quantum mechanical effects in terms of this misinterpretation.

 

[idav]

You've said this. But while length contraction and time dilation are described in sources as diverse as Wikipedia and YouTube clips to monographs on theoretical physics, nowhere is there anything about space dilation. When it comes to time dilation, you are simply misunderstanding what it is, but space dilation is something you've made up and I don't know where you are even getting the concept from.

Gravity bends space but it is actually spacetime. I guess dilate isn't the right word for it. Same difference.

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einstein/gravity/you-bend-space-time/

 

[McBell]

Haha...something like that....but there are other factors in play....

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair.

“The amount of energy necessary to refute bulls**it is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.” :- Alberto Brandolini

ah yes, the conspiracy defense...
Still not convincing anyone outside the choir.

 

[atanu]

The affect would exist from a third observer that would see one object slowing down and another object speeding up time keeping it relativistic. It isn't relative to an observer but relative to amount of mass.

Let specialists and professionals speak, please.

 

[idav]

Let specialists and professionals speak, please.

Add something if you have anything, please.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Let specialists and professionals speak, please.

Are you a specialist/professional? O/W, how can you judge who is and who isn't. And besides, the Truth speaks for itself. We can judge what the professionals are saying by those of them who write for us out here in flyover country.

 

[atanu]

.... It isn't relative to an observer but relative to amount of mass.

Have you seen the movie interstellar. A..... I don't know why the observer aspect is so important to you when time is literally paused in one point in space and not in another.

Add something if you have anything, please.

Please do not take offence when none is intended. It may be interesting for you to note that Einstein's mind experiments involved observer/travellers with differing frames of references. However, let me suggest the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_(special_relativity)

 

[idav]

Please do not take offence when none is intended. It may be interesting for you to note that Einstein's mind experiments involved observer/travellers with differing frames of references. However, let me suggest the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_(special_relativity)

I see, yes the reference helped me to understand your point.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

ah yes, the conspiracy defense...
Still not convincing anyone outside the choir.

Exactly what are you talking about....what conspiracy are you referring to?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Gravity bends space but it is actually spacetime. I guess dilate isn't the right word for it. Same difference.

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einstein/gravity/you-bend-space-time/

Gravitation is the curvature of spacetime. It does not bend space

 

[`mud]

As far as we can see, and beyond that, somewhere.
We will never understand the reality of infinity,
we have stakes in our eyes !
~
'mud

 

[idav]

Gravitation is the curvature of spacetime. It does not bend space

Now your just being difficult.

 

[Willamena]

Now your just being difficult.

No, just accurate.

 

[idav]

No, just accurate.

See our discussion, I called it spacetime countless times. I already took back my word dillate from his nit pickiness.

 

[idav]

Thats how gravity works, bending spacetime, not god holding on with a tether.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Gravitation is the warping of spacetime by a mass. Gravity is the attractive force exerted by one mass on another mass (or light beam) via the warping of spacetime. No, gravitation itself doesn't do the warping, that would be gravity warping itself.

edit

 

[idav]

Gravitation is the warping of spacetime by a mass. Gravity is the attractive force exerted by one mass (or light beam) on another mass via the warping of spacetime. No, gravitation itself doesn't do the warping, that would be gravity warping itself.

Ok cool, but thats not what I meant, I thought the illustration sufficed. I didn't mean to make it sound like gravity is doing the bending but that is how gravity works because spacetime is bending.