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The Big Bang as evidence for God

paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
ben d said:
The is no such animal as spacetime.....it is a concept to help
But there is no evidence of a big bang....only a man made theory..... Duality only comes from the minds of man.....the Cosmos as it is, is one.....and eternal....nothing can ever be removed from it...nothing can ever be added to it....it was never created...nor will it ever be destroyed.. Accept it....and G-d will accept you, for while the apparent infinite manifested forms of G-d are born and die...the underlying essence of the Cosmos is changeless.... call it what you will...some call it G-d....
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I didn't mean the whole theory, its overall position is well within the concept mentioned in the verses of Quran. Quran is not a text book of science, it never claimed to be as such.
Regards
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
I didn't mean the whole theory, its overall position is well within the concept mentioned in the verses of Quran. Quran is not a text book of science, it never claimed to be as such.

Regards
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Fine....in any event, G-d exists on the other side of human conceptual comprehension...salam...
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
idav said:
I believe this but your not really saying anything here, just being disagreeable. Just because two separate theories can't be reconciled doesn't make one theory obsolete when things get too small to calculate.

Sure, may or may not be real, could just be a force, forces that have the ability to be outside of spacetime with enough mass and/or energy.
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last I heard ...there are just four basic forces....
and time does not exist
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
idav said:
I am pretty certain I am getting older.
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Time is a concept that requires a reference start point....time is a concept to represent the measurement of finite relative aspects of infinity....time as a finite concept can not measure that which had no beginning and is not relative to anything......ie.infinity.....the underlying unity of that is all.......call it what you will..
 
ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
ben d said:
time as a finite concept can not measure that which had no beginning.....and is not relative to anything......ie.infinity
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Dogma, the word used for when one error is used to justify another. Infinite time would have no beginning, by the definition of infinity, while finite time would.
 
`mud

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
A 'now' in the Cosmos is the same as any other 'now' out there.
They're all in memory, new 'nows' don't exist yet.
How long is a 'now' ? and by what standard ?
We can't compare different 'nows', can we ?
Infinity is not a standard !
Circular isn't it ?
~
'mud
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
Dogma, the word used for when one error is used to justify another. Infinite time would have no beginning, by the definition of infinity, while finite time would.
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Except that there is no such reality as infinite time....that an eternal universe exists without ever disappearing is not a measurement of time...but implies atemporality....ie..timelessness.. Finite time as measured and appears to the human mind is an abstraction to manage the relatively brief periods of existence that material forms experience...it has no intrinsic reality....it is merely a mental construct, albeit an important one wrt human evolution...
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Taylor Seraphim said:
So you do not think that the past or future exists?
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The only reality that exists right now is the reality that exists right now....the reality that you mentally construct right now to represent the past is happening right now and is a part of the reality right now....same thing for any thoughts about the future...it can only happen in the present right now reality.... past and future have no reality outside of the mind... :)
 
ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
ben d said:
Except that there is no such reality as infinite time....
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Precisely.

that an eternal universe exists without ever disappearing is not a measurement of time...but implies atemporality....ie..timelessness.
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I don't know the fate of the universe, only that science has concluded that it began. And quantumland is timeless (non-local). The best way to look at what all that means is that the universe is couched in quantumland, sharing some sort of interface with each other for certain interactions, most likely the fabric of space acting as membrane through which only Plancklength scale mass/energy can pass. Yeah, it's a theory, but it makes more sense than determining quantum interactions by conscious observation. The Moon is there whether we're looking at it or not.

Finite time as measured and appears to the human mind is an abstraction to manage the relatively brief periods of existence that material forms experience...it has no intrinsic reality....it is merely a mental construct, albeit an important one wrt human evolution...
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So there was no time before humans. So much for evolution and all the non-social sciences.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
Precisely.

I don't know the fate of the universe, only that science has concluded that it began. And quantumland is timeless (non-local). The best way to look at what all that means is that the universe is couched in quantumland, sharing some sort of interface with each other for certain interactions, most likely the fabric of space acting as membrane through which only Plancklength scale mass/energy can pass. Yeah, it's a theory, but it makes more sense than determining quantum interactions by conscious observation. The Moon is there whether we're looking at it or not.

So there was no time before humans. So much for evolution and all the non-social sciences.
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You are mistaken.....there is no scientific conclusion that there was a beginning to the universe....only those who support the big bang theory....there is not a scientific consensus on it.. and even then there is no understanding how or why such an event could occur.. Similarly with religion...there is no conclusion that God created the universe....pantheism holds that the universe is the manifestation of the eternal God and only the manifested form is subject to beginnings and endings...

Once again....time is a mental construct...it does not exist outside the mind..... QM and GR and all other disciplines of science are helpful to human evolution, but the sum total of the knowledge will forever fall short of understanding the truth.....for 'reality' itself is not a mental construct...whereas all the theories of man are merely conceptualization to represent that 'reality'...see the difference?
 
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