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The Big Bang Theory is dead.

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Maybe they were just deceived. I heard that they may have been sell outs.

Read the Bible and they are shown to be wrong.

Can I get your opinion on this one.

Are giant galaxy clusters defying standard cosmology? – Physics World
Nope, the Bible is not a reliable source in that fashion. You would have to show that it is reliable and it is too easy to show that it is not. It fails at almost all levels.
Maybe they were just deceived. I heard that they may have been sell outs.

Read the Bible and they are shown to be wrong.

Can I get your opinion on this one.

Are giant galaxy clusters defying standard cosmology? – Physics World
Guess, what? Even if those authors are correct your beliefs are still refuted. It is foolish to try to refute an idea with another that still refutes you. Your ideas are wrong either way.

It is like admitting that a certain idea shoots you in the foot so to "disprove" it you shoot yourself in the other foot.

In the real world that sort of argument is called "Not smart".
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don’t blindly believe what science feeds me as many do unfortunately. There’s so much more to life than that.
Good on you. Always demand concrete evidence.
Fortunately, that's exactly what science is based on, and it's the scientists themselves who are the the greatest skeptics.

"More to life?" What do you mean by that> Some kind of Maslovian self-actualization?
 

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Good on you. Always demand concrete evidence.
Fortunately, that's exactly what science is based on, and it's the scientists themselves who are the the greatest skeptics.

"More to life?" What do you mean by that> Some kind of Maslovian self-actualization?
Think about it mr maslovian
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Big Bang is dead.

Redshift anomalies and other things that invalidate the Big Bang expansion

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ft_Data_and_the_Myth_of_Cosmological_Distance
Click on see the full text.

Anomalies in the count of low red shift quasars.

Anomalies in the Counts of Low Redshift Quasars

https://assa.saao.ac.za/wp-content/...liffe-A-review-of-anomalous-redshift-data.pdf

Redshift Anomalies and the Big Bang – Anthony Beckett

Is a new anomaly affecting the entire Universe?

Galaxies and the Universe - Alternate Approaches and the Redshift Controversy

These two shows that today’s age estimate is a farce. The very exact number may be off by 100%. Of course if 100% is the error, then -100% puts it at about 6000 years.

'Tired light' might make the universe twice as old as we thought

Scientists have revisited the disproven light ageing hypothesis, which suggests the universe has been around for almost 27 billion years

More problems with the Big Bang Theory and the redshift explanation.

Plasma Cosmology .net

Exploring Cosmic Voids and Anomalies: The Mystery of the Cold Spot

Large Scale Cosmological Anomalies and Inhomogeneous Dark Energy

What if the Universe Is NOT Expanding?

The Big Bang Theory-A Scientific Critique [Part I] [Whole] - Apologetics Press

Galaxy Making Stars at the Edge of the Universe and Other “Surprises”

https://act.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1171/files/a9r1o5g11h_6viqvc_3u4_0.pdf

The Scientific Evidence Against the Big Bang - LPP Fusion

Quasar with enormous redshift found embedded in nearby spiral galaxy with far lower redshift

The Big Bang Bust-Up

The Big Bang Never Happened: A Conclusive Argument

https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10338699

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18625061-800-did-the-big-bang-really-happen/

https://darkmattercrisis.wordpress.com/category/cosmology/mond/

https://www.sci.news/astronomy/science-universe-not-expanding-01940.html

https://www.quantamagazine.org/astronomers-get-their-wish-and-the-hubble-crisis-gets-worse-20201217/

https://physicsworld.com/a/are-giant-galaxy-clusters-defying-standard-cosmology/

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/redshift.html

Web telescope

Too many spiral galaxies in the early universe.

James Webb telescope spots thousands of Milky Way lookalikes that 'shouldn't exist' swarming across the early universe

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/james-webb-telescope-spots-thousands-173000173.html
If Big Bang theory were dead, whoever killed it would be very rich and very famous. Whoever made such a claim is neither so I don't believe them.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Big Bang is dead.

Redshift anomalies and other things that invalidate the Big Bang expansion

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ft_Data_and_the_Myth_of_Cosmological_Distance
Click on see the full text.

Anomalies in the count of low red shift quasars.

Anomalies in the Counts of Low Redshift Quasars

https://assa.saao.ac.za/wp-content/...liffe-A-review-of-anomalous-redshift-data.pdf

Redshift Anomalies and the Big Bang – Anthony Beckett

Is a new anomaly affecting the entire Universe?

Galaxies and the Universe - Alternate Approaches and the Redshift Controversy

These two shows that today’s age estimate is a farce. The very exact number may be off by 100%. Of course if 100% is the error, then -100% puts it at about 6000 years.

'Tired light' might make the universe twice as old as we thought

Scientists have revisited the disproven light ageing hypothesis, which suggests the universe has been around for almost 27 billion years

More problems with the Big Bang Theory and the redshift explanation.

Plasma Cosmology .net

Exploring Cosmic Voids and Anomalies: The Mystery of the Cold Spot

Large Scale Cosmological Anomalies and Inhomogeneous Dark Energy

What if the Universe Is NOT Expanding?

The Big Bang Theory-A Scientific Critique [Part I] [Whole] - Apologetics Press

Galaxy Making Stars at the Edge of the Universe and Other “Surprises”

https://act.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1171/files/a9r1o5g11h_6viqvc_3u4_0.pdf

The Scientific Evidence Against the Big Bang - LPP Fusion

Quasar with enormous redshift found embedded in nearby spiral galaxy with far lower redshift

The Big Bang Bust-Up

The Big Bang Never Happened: A Conclusive Argument

https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10338699

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18625061-800-did-the-big-bang-really-happen/

https://darkmattercrisis.wordpress.com/category/cosmology/mond/

https://www.sci.news/astronomy/science-universe-not-expanding-01940.html

https://www.quantamagazine.org/astronomers-get-their-wish-and-the-hubble-crisis-gets-worse-20201217/

https://physicsworld.com/a/are-giant-galaxy-clusters-defying-standard-cosmology/

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/redshift.html

Web telescope

Too many spiral galaxies in the early universe.

James Webb telescope spots thousands of Milky Way lookalikes that 'shouldn't exist' swarming across the early universe

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/james-webb-telescope-spots-thousands-173000173.html
The Big Bang Theory is fact.

Galactic spread, pulsars from the center of the galaxy and the microwave background all correspond to the same time to start the Universe.

But if you can get over that hurdle, be my guest.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
*sigh*

No, the claims of Arp about associations of quasars at large red shifts and galaxies at lower red shifts has not stood up to better data. The old photographic plates had a tendency to 'smear'. With better resolution, those 'links' disappear.

And no, tired light is still not a viable theory. The hoopla recently was from a paper that tried to fit a limited amount of data to a modified tired light model. But it ignored a LOT of evidence from other sources that support the age of around 14 billion years (including from the background radiation).

And no, it is NOT possible that the universe (or even the Earth) is only 6000 year old. The red shift measurements are completely irrelevant for objects closer than a few tens of millions of light years. And we have very good evidence that the Large Magellanic cloud is 162,000 light years away and that light took 162,000 years to reach us from there. A supernova that we first saw in 1987 has been used to demonstrate that.

Sorry, but these are primarily crank theories that have very little basis in the evidence. The basic Big Bang scenario, and even the LCDM scenario are quite well supported, even by JWST. What we are learning a great deal about is early galaxy evolution, which we understood very poorly before.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe they were just deceived. I heard that they may have been sell outs.

Read the Bible and they are shown to be wrong.

Can I get your opinion on this one.

Are giant galaxy clusters defying standard cosmology? – Physics World
Sorry, but the Bible isn't a reliable source for cosmology.

Yes, large early galaxies are changing our views of how galaxies developed in the early universe. That is not the same as bringing the Big Bang model into question.

As for your link, you do realize that MOND has been refuted by other data, right? And, even if it holds in the early universe, that still won't make the biblical narrative supported.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Sorry, but the Bible isn't a reliable source for cosmology.

Yes, large early galaxies are changing our views of how galaxies developed in the early universe. That is not the same as bringing the Big Bang model into question.

As for your link, you do realize that MOND has been refuted by other data, right? And, even if it holds in the early universe, that still won't make the biblical narrative supported.
I can never understand these people that are so desperate in their trying to claim an impossibly young age to the universe that they grasp at any crank article out there. Even when all of those crank articles still tell the person that he is wrong. As I said earlier. It is as if the first argument causes them to shoot a hole in their right foot so they decide to refute it by shooting a hole into their left foot.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
I can never understand these people that are so desperate in their trying to claim an impossibly young age to the universe that they grasp at any crank article out there. Even when all of those crank articles still tell the person that he is wrong. As I said earlier. It is as if the first argument causes them to shoot a hole in their right foot so they decide to refute it by shooting a hole into their left foot.
And yet no one has met the challenge I posted why?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
And yet no one has met the challenge I posted why?
You cite unreliable sources. And you base your approach on the unrealistic assumption of the Ussher timeline. Even creationists have been pushing creation out beyond 10,000 years because the genetics and population growth doesn’t work. You gloss over all those problems, and do so by not presenting any evidence and explanation.

You make a huge mistake of thinking that if you poke holes in science enough it makes your religious belief valid. No. You still need to show your religious belief that is creationism is true, no one ever has, including you.
 

Soandso

ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
Why are they so desperate for a replacement of the Big Bang?


Notice how you took what I said, ignored it, then veered left with something completely unrelated thereby bypassing having to talk about the actual point that was brought up? That's a demonstration right there of bad faith right after I pointed out that the reason nobody wanted to discuss the issue with you was because of this fact

Why would anyone want to waste their time trying to talk with someone who's more interested in securing a "win" than actually having an honest discussion? No thanks
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
Big Bang is dead.

Redshift anomalies and other things that invalidate the Big Bang expansion

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ft_Data_and_the_Myth_of_Cosmological_Distance
Click on see the full text.

Anomalies in the count of low red shift quasars.

Anomalies in the Counts of Low Redshift Quasars

https://assa.saao.ac.za/wp-content/...liffe-A-review-of-anomalous-redshift-data.pdf

Redshift Anomalies and the Big Bang – Anthony Beckett

Is a new anomaly affecting the entire Universe?

Galaxies and the Universe - Alternate Approaches and the Redshift Controversy

These two shows that today’s age estimate is a farce. The very exact number may be off by 100%. Of course if 100% is the error, then -100% puts it at about 6000 years.

'Tired light' might make the universe twice as old as we thought

Scientists have revisited the disproven light ageing hypothesis, which suggests the universe has been around for almost 27 billion years

More problems with the Big Bang Theory and the redshift explanation.

Plasma Cosmology .net

Exploring Cosmic Voids and Anomalies: The Mystery of the Cold Spot

Large Scale Cosmological Anomalies and Inhomogeneous Dark Energy

What if the Universe Is NOT Expanding?

The Big Bang Theory-A Scientific Critique [Part I] [Whole] - Apologetics Press

Galaxy Making Stars at the Edge of the Universe and Other “Surprises”

https://act.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1171/files/a9r1o5g11h_6viqvc_3u4_0.pdf

The Scientific Evidence Against the Big Bang - LPP Fusion

Quasar with enormous redshift found embedded in nearby spiral galaxy with far lower redshift

The Big Bang Bust-Up

The Big Bang Never Happened: A Conclusive Argument

https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10338699

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18625061-800-did-the-big-bang-really-happen/

https://darkmattercrisis.wordpress.com/category/cosmology/mond/

https://www.sci.news/astronomy/science-universe-not-expanding-01940.html

https://www.quantamagazine.org/astronomers-get-their-wish-and-the-hubble-crisis-gets-worse-20201217/

https://physicsworld.com/a/are-giant-galaxy-clusters-defying-standard-cosmology/

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/redshift.html

Web telescope

Too many spiral galaxies in the early universe.

James Webb telescope spots thousands of Milky Way lookalikes that 'shouldn't exist' swarming across the early universe

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/james-webb-telescope-spots-thousands-173000173.html
I am not convinced that Big Bang theory is dead. Nor that shotgunning links like confetti, is particularly helpful.

The main testable and observable evidences for rapid inflationary theory are twofold, 1) The redshift observed in galactic supercluster emissions, and thus inference of their increasing distance from each other and 2) The cosmic microwave background radiation that pervades all space, which one would expect if the universe arose from a singularity.

Until these particular evidences can be attributed to other phenomena, with a testable hypothesis at the very least. Then rapid inflationary theory is still holding water.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
You cite unreliable sources. And you base your approach on the unrealistic assumption of the Ussher timeline. Even creationists have been pushing creation out beyond 10,000 years because the genetics and population growth doesn’t work. You gloss over all those problems, and do so by not presenting any evidence and explanation.

You make a huge mistake of thinking that if you poke holes in science enough it makes your religious belief valid. No. You still need to show your religious belief that is creationism is true, no one ever has, including you.
Not me and not all are pushing the timeline.
Newton also had a timeline that was close to Ussher's
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Not me and not all are pushing the timeline.
What an an amazing coincidence that you believe in a failed timeline that has been the cornerstone of creationism for decades. You should look at your own tribe’s history of trying to make 6000 year’s work. They can’t do it. The odd thing is that since they abandoned the Ussher timeline they didn’t need to worry about an old earth. But they still tried to make it work, which it still doesn’t.

Newton also had a timeline that was close to Ussher's
And he didn’t have the advantage of 21st century knowledge so that was the best he could do so many centuries ago. All science builds on the previous generation’s work and it becomes more accurate over time. Look at germ theory. Look at Relativity. These moved science forward in dramatic ways that had many older scientists upset. You creationists are stuck in your obsolete religious beliefs and protesting with these bogus claims.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
What an an amazing coincidence that you believe in a failed timeline that has been the cornerstone of creationism for decades. You should look at your own tribe’s history of trying to make 6000 year’s work. They can’t do it. The odd thing is that since they abandoned the Ussher timeline they didn’t need to worry about an old earth. But they still tried to make it work, which it still doesn’t.


And he didn’t have the advantage of 21st century knowledge so that was the best he could do so many centuries ago. All science builds on the previous generation’s work and it becomes more accurate over time. Look at germ theory. Look at Relativity. These moved science forward in dramatic ways that had many older scientists upset. You creationists are stuck in your obsolete religious beliefs and protesting with these bogus claims.
The timeline is just adding the years from the genealogies to Adam being created on day 6. Then just 2000 years since the ressurction,

So I have no idea what you are saying about failed timeline.

Have you met the simple challenge?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The timeline is just adding the years from the genealogies to Adam being created on day 6. Then just 2000 years since the ressurction,

So I have no idea what you are saying about failed timeline.

Have you met the simple challenge?
What challenge? And you just admitted that the timeline was fictional. How new to debating are you?
 
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