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The Big Bang Theory is dead.

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
So evolution and billons of years is like a religion.
No. Evolution and the Big bang models are *evidence* based. That is not at all like a religion.
And I can see the circular reasoning you use in that you are sure that the cause may yet be discovered. And of course you are sure that is must have happened without God.
I see no reason, based on the evidence, to assume there is/was a deity.
But the fine tuned and orderly universe could never exist by itself. See yiu have no intelligent Almighty Creator to just create such a universe.
Why could it not just exist by itself. Your deity, according to you, manages to do so.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
So evolution and billons of years is like a religion.

I don’t think you can see the irony of your line of thinking.

you cannot believe that life have existed for billions of years on Earth…and yet you readily and wholeheartedly believe that God is immortal, eternal, and have existed for infinity.

how is that infinity in your religion is more possible than some billions of years?
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
I don’t think you can see the irony of your line of thinking.

you cannot believe that life have existed for billions of years on Earth…and yet you readily and wholeheartedly believe that God is immortal, eternal, and have existed for infinity.

how is that infinity in your religion is more possible than some billions of years?
Of course. It is the only answer.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Of course. It is the only answer.

but it is double standard.

you believe in one but not the other, even though Genesis 1 clearly stated that the Earth has a finite beginning.

But the age of Earth and when life appearing in fossil records showed finite time, even though it billions of years.

you are simply not thinking logically.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
btw @SavedByTheLord

There are two main sources of evidence as to estimation of the Earth‘s age:

One. They come the ages of the oldest minerals on Earth, zircon, found in Western Australia.

Two. The ages of some of meteorites that have crashed on Earth.

Meteors, are space object, with similar composition as the asteroids orbiting around the sun, between Mars and Jupiter (the Asteroid Belt), and the asteroid beyond Neptune (Kuiper Belt).

meteors and asteroids are all debris of nearby supernovae that occurred long before the formation of the Solar System.

some of the meteorite discovered are the of the same age of Earth, but the Murchison meteorite (1969) is even older than the Solar System, the silicon carbides in the meteorite have been dated to over 7 billion years.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
btw @SavedByTheLord

There are two main sources of evidence as to estimation of the Earth‘s age:

One. They come the ages of the oldest minerals on Earth, zircon, found in Western Australia.

Two. The ages of some of meteorites that have crashed on Earth.

Meteors, are space object, with similar composition as the asteroids orbiting around the sun, between Mars and Jupiter (the Asteroid Belt), and the asteroid beyond Neptune (Kuiper Belt).

meteors and asteroids are all debris of nearby supernovae that occurred long before the formation of the Solar System.

some of the meteorite discovered are the of the same age of Earth, but the Murchison meteorite (1969) is even older than the Solar System, the silicon carbides in the meteorite have been dated to over 7 billion years.
I had to check on the date of the Murchison Meteorite. As you know there are more ways of dating an object than just radiometric dating. That meteorite was dated by measuring the the silicon carbide dust, as you mentioned. But that method does appear to have a rather high margin of error:

"In January 2020, cosmochemists reported that the oldest material found on Earth to date are the silicon carbide particles from the Murchison meteorite, which have been determined to be 7 billion years old, about 2.5 billion years older than the 4.54-billion-year age of the Earth and the Solar System.[a] The published study noted that "dust lifetime estimates mainly rely on sophisticated theoretical models. These models, however, focus on the more common small dust grains and are based on assumptions with large uncertainties."[3]"


Great, now I have to check out silicon carbide dust dating. Hey1 I might learn something new. Thanks!

EDIT: Okay, it is some of the dust that was incorporated into the meteorite that was dated this way. And if I understand it correctly the dating method measures how long the dust was free floating before becoming part of the meteorite. That means if one could date the meteorite itself it by radiometric dating it would have a date on the order of the age of the Earth, but some, not all, of the dust came from much earlier event. You can read more here:

 
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gnostic

The Lost One
I had to check on the date of the Murchison Meteorite. As you know there are more ways of dating an object than just radiometric dating. That meteorite was dated by measuring the the silicon carbide dust, as you mentioned. But that method does appear to have a rather high margin of error:

"In January 2020, cosmochemists reported that the oldest material found on Earth to date are the silicon carbide particles from the Murchison meteorite, which have been determined to be 7 billion years old, about 2.5 billion years older than the 4.54-billion-year age of the Earth and the Solar System.[a] The published study noted that "dust lifetime estimates mainly rely on sophisticated theoretical models. These models, however, focus on the more common small dust grains and are based on assumptions with large uncertainties."[3]"


Great, now I have to check out silicon carbide dust dating. Hey1 I might learn something new. Thanks!

EDIT: Okay, it is some of the dust that was incorporated into the meteorite that was dated this way. And if I understand it correctly the dating method measures how long the dust was free floating before becoming part of the meteorite. That means if one could date the meteorite itself it by radiometric dating it would have a date on the order of the age of the Earth, but some, not all, of the dust came from much earlier event. You can read more here:


Thanks, SZ. I will looked into that link.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
I had to check on the date of the Murchison Meteorite. As you know there are more ways of dating an object than just radiometric dating. That meteorite was dated by measuring the the silicon carbide dust, as you mentioned. But that method does appear to have a rather high margin of error:

"In January 2020, cosmochemists reported that the oldest material found on Earth to date are the silicon carbide particles from the Murchison meteorite, which have been determined to be 7 billion years old, about 2.5 billion years older than the 4.54-billion-year age of the Earth and the Solar System.[a] The published study noted that "dust lifetime estimates mainly rely on sophisticated theoretical models. These models, however, focus on the more common small dust grains and are based on assumptions with large uncertainties."[3]"


Great, now I have to check out silicon carbide dust dating. Hey1 I might learn something new. Thanks!

EDIT: Okay, it is some of the dust that was incorporated into the meteorite that was dated this way. And if I understand it correctly the dating method measures how long the dust was free floating before becoming part of the meteorite. That means if one could date the meteorite itself it by radiometric dating it would have a date on the order of the age of the Earth, but some, not all, of the dust came from much earlier event. You can read more here:

Did it have a date on it?
Was it a headline the next day in the paper?
No
So, this is just the usual circular reasoning fallacy of the evolutionists and billions of year believers .

When and where did the first living thing come into being?
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
So, this is just the usual circular reasoning fallacy of the evolutionists and billions of year believers .
[citation missing]

Still waiting for you to give even one single example of any scientist using circular reasoning about these things. If you can't do so, we can only conclude that you're just making it up...
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
[citation missing]

Still waiting for you to give even one single example of any scientist using circular reasoning about these things. If you can't do so, we can only conclude that you're just making it up...
What was the first living thing and what features did it have?
Is abiogenesis even possible from just natural processes?
So if there are no real rational answers, why do you believe and all those scientists believe it happened without God?
Because they are all trapped in circular reasoning.
I have also granted you 100 for the circular reasoning of your post.
My post is the citation whether you accept that or not.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
What was the first living thing and what features did it have?
Is abiogenesis even possible from just natural processes?
So if there are no real rational answers, why do you believe and all those scientists believe it happened without God?
Because they are all trapped in circular reasoning.
I have also granted you 100 for the circular reasoning of your post.
My post is the citation whether you accept that or not.
Asking you questions again is running away from the point I made.

Your accusations of circular reasoning against people on this forum are just comical.

I asked you to give even one single example of any scientist using circular reasoning in the way you keep describing. If you can't do so, we can only conclude that you're just making it up.

So can you give examples or not?
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
Asking you questions again is running away from the point I made.

Your accusations of circular reasoning against people on this forum are just comical.

I asked you to give even one single example of any scientist using circular reasoning in the way you keep describing. If you can't do so, we can only conclude that you're just making it up.

So can you give examples or not?
You have been shown it by me and your lack of answers to these simple required questions is the proof Of circular reasoning.
Did the first living thing have DNA, RNA, proteins or some mix?
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
You have been shown it by me and your lack of answers to these simple required questions is the proof Of circular reasoning.
Good grief.

You have accused several entire scientific disciplines of using circular reasoning, yet you continue to ignore my requests to produce even one single example. Why should I not conclude that you are not telling the truth?

I have answered your questions, so saying that there is a "lack of answers" is definitely not telling the truth.

Even if I hadn't answered your questions, that would not prove circular reasoning. You clearly have no grasp of basic logic.

 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Debate 101 techniques prove evolution and billions of years are false,
Once again demonstrating a total lack of knowledge of basic logic. Even if somebody has made a bad argument (which they didn't) that does not prove anything about the conclusion.

Bad arguments prove nothing.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Did it have a date on it?
Was it a headline the next day in the paper?
No
So, this is just the usual circular reasoning fallacy of the evolutionists and billions of year believers .

When and where did the first living thing come into being?
Why would it need a date on it? Do forensic detectives look for a date when they determine how long ago a person was killed?

And sorry, but logical fallacies are not magic spells. Mimicking the words of someone who spanked your butt in the past is not a refutation. It is only an admission on your part as to how little you understand about debating.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
You are making your rounds trying to recruit for Satan.
Fortunately for the rest of us, we have been able to resist your sad attempts.
Satan plays you like a fiddle.

Where did the universe come from?

If the explanation is the Bing Bang with or without inflation, what was there before that?

If there was nothing before the Big Bang, then that breaks cause and effect. It also violates every law of conservation too.

If there was something before that, what caused the thing that was before the Big Bang to come into being?
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Satan plays you like a fiddle.

Where did the universe come from?

If the explanation is the Bing Bang with or without inflation, what was there before that?

If there was nothing before the Big Bang, then that breaks cause and effect. It also violates every law of conservation too.

If there was something before that, what caused the thing that was before the Big Bang to come into being?
And here we see a prime example of Satans vise like grip...
 
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