The Big Bang Theory is dead.

[Esteban X]

So anyway -- although interesting, the point is also that the Bible says a day can be 1,000 years in God's eyes. Furthermore, in the creation account, the 7th day is not said to have ended.

If the Seventh Day has not ended that would mean God is still resting. That could explain his apparent absence. Although he is supposed to have been busy, talking to Adam, making bets with the Devil, killing his son and what have you. So we can assume the Seventh Day has ended.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well if someone draws a picture. Have you left reality,
It is impossible and refutes all evolution and billions of years.

Sure, God could have used evolution in some lower life forms, but NOT where human kind is concerned.
Adam was formed/ fashioned (created) from the already existing dust of the Earth. Then Eve from Adam.
Adam went from non-life, to life by the breath of God - Genesis 2:7 - Not evolution.

Plus, for God to make a young Earth look old would be deception on the part of God.
God does Not deceive - Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If the Seventh Day has not ended that would mean God is still resting. That could explain his apparent absence. Although he is supposed to have been busy, talking to Adam, making bets with the Devil, killing his son and what have you. So we can assume the Seventh Day has ended.

Huh? God's 'rest day' from further creating things ended with the end of the 6th creative day.
God's 'rest day' was still on-going in the first century- Hebrews 4:4-11 - and is still on going today
- Proverbs 4:18 has Not yet arrived.

To me there is nothing absent about what Jesus said would happen at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 and is happening more and more each day.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's a bit abstruse or complicated for me -- but even that fusion -- I can't figure how it shows (certainly not proves) that is/was the "common ancestor." Did it make for (whatever the right terminology is) humans for sure? Meantime, that fusion--do you think that it made/enabled/promoted the ability to read, write, and figure out things like quantum physics in humans while gorillas, chimps and orangutans remained the same?

It all gets back to the concept of scientific evidence. I went over this with you, but one of the traits of a hypothesis is that it is supposed to be testable and the hypothesis is tested by the predictions that it makes. It is relatively easy to explain something after the fact. But we did not know if there was fusion for sure or not. That is what the hypothesis predicted. That the difference was due to a fusion. If we did not find evidence of a fusion, remember the technology did not exist before this, that could show that the hypothesis was false. Instead they found strong evidence for a fusion. As you have heard to within a few base pairs. That is extraordinarily accurate.

By the way, the hypothesis could have been "saved" if they investigated the other great apes and found evidence of fissions. But that would be extremely unlikely since they would all have had to have fusions that occurred after we split off from the other great apes, and since there were three splits there would have to have been a fusion of a chromosome for orangutans after our split. Another one for the ancestor of gorillas after our split. And a third split for chimpanzees. And each time it would have had to have been the same original chromosome that was the same as our number two and the splits would have had to have happened in roughly the same place. The odds against that are huge. That is why they concluded that it was a single fusion rather than three splits. And not finding the fusion would again have been evidence against humans sharing a common ancestor with other great apes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure, God could have used evolution in some lower life forms, but NOT where human kind is concerned.
Adam was formed/ fashioned (created) from the already existing dust of the Earth. Then Eve from Adam.
Adam went from non-life, to life by the breath of God - Genesis 2:7 - Not evolution.

Plus, for God to make a young Earth look old would be deception on the part of God.
God does Not deceive - Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18

But the evidence also tells us quite clearly that man is a product of evolution. So God planted false evidence if you want the Adam and Eve myth to be true.

 

[Polymath257]

It's a bit abstruse or complicated for me -- but even that fusion -- I can't figure how it shows (certainly not proves) that is/was the "common ancestor."

It shows there was an ancestor of humans that had 48 chromosomes. It also shows that the genes on the chromosomes match up between humans and the great apes. That means a common ancestor (in the same way genetics tests can determine ancestry more recently).

Did it make for (whatever the right terminology is) humans for sure?

Huh?

Meantime, that fusion--do you think that it made/enabled/promoted the ability to read, write, and figure out things like quantum physics in humans while gorillas, chimps and orangutans remained the same?

No, of course not. The chromosome merger certainly happened much earlier than any of those things. More relevant for *those* is the increase of brain size in the human line. And no, that isn't related to the chromosome merger.

 

[Polymath257]

It all gets back to the concept of scientific evidence. I went over this with you, but one of the traits of a hypothesis is that it is supposed to be testable and the hypothesis is tested by the predictions that it makes. It is relatively easy to explain something after the fact. But we did not know if there was fusion for sure or not. That is what the hypothesis predicted. That the difference was due to a fusion. If we did not find evidence of a fusion, remember the technology did not exist before this, that could show that the hypothesis was false. Instead they found strong evidence for a fusion. As you have heard to within a few base pairs. That is extraordinarily accurate.

By the way, the hypothesis could have been "saved" if they investigated the other great apes and found evidence of fissions. But that would be extremely unlikely since they would all have had to have fusions that occurred after we split off from the other great apes, and since there were three splits there would have to have been a fusion of a chromosome for orangutans after our split. Another one for the ancestor of gorillas after our split. And a third split for chimpanzees. And each time it would have had to have been the same original chromosome that was the same as our number two and the splits would have had to have happened in roughly the same place. The odds against that are huge. That is why they concluded that it was a single fusion rather than three splits. And not finding the fusion would again have been evidence against humans sharing a common ancestor with other great apes.

And it answers the 'good question' of why humans have 46 chromosomes and other great apes have 48. Which was how this all got started in this thread.

 

[Polymath257]

Question: are humans the latest supposed emergence from the Unknown as of yet Common Ancestor?

No. Again, of course not. Humans, chimps and bonobos have a common ancestor that is more recent than that for humans and ALL apes (which would include gorillas and orangutans).

even if humans supposedly came (evolved) from that fusion of chromosomes somewhere along the line--somewhere in the time table?

No, you misunderstood. That merger did NOT give rise to humans directly. It was simply something that happened in the human line and not in the other apes.

 

[Polymath257]

So anyway -- although interesting, the point is also that the Bible says a day can be 1,000 years in God's eyes. Furthermore, in the creation account, the 7th day is not said to have ended.

Actually, it did. That is why the seventh day is to be kept holy as a day of rest.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the morning and evening during the week of creation. That suggests actual days.

 

[YoursTrue]

If the Seventh Day has not ended that would mean God is still resting. That could explain his apparent absence. Although he is supposed to have been busy, talking to Adam, making bets with the Devil, killing his son and what have you. So we can assume the Seventh Day has ended.

In order to understand this, you really have to look at it properly taking it in context with God's help. So we know from the writing that the 7th creative day has not ended. But the 7th day of the week regarding work for the Israelites was not given as law until the time of Moses. The days of creation were clearly not as I have come to understand based on reasoning from the Bible 24-hour days. The first six days had a beginning and an end. Not the 7th day. One must take the scriptures in context.

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually, it did. That is why the seventh day is to be kept holy as a day of rest.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the morning and evening during the week of creation. That suggests actual days.

So is God resting in what way? You do notice what Jesus said, don't you?
John 5: And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."
So did Jesus lie and that's why in part the Jews sought to kill him, along with saying that God was his Father? Did he break the Sabbath law, did he lie when he said his Father kept working?
(Does the Genesis account say the 7th day of creation had a beginning and an end and it does the other 6 days?)

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually, it did. That is why the seventh day is to be kept holy as a day of rest.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the morning and evening during the week of creation. That suggests actual days.

You have already said that days are growing shorter, right? So the length of a day can change according to rotation. Furthermore, all 6 days of creation is said to have a beginning and an end. The 7th day does not say that. I could go on but if you can't admit that it is not written that the 7th day has an end written about it in the Genesis account, but the other 6 days do have a beginning and an end, I realize that maybe it's too difficult for you to say that the Bible does not say the 7th day of creation has an end written about that creative day. Please note I am not speaking of the sabbath day command given to the Jews. All 7 days in that week have a beginning and an end.

 

[YoursTrue]

It shows there was an ancestor of humans that had 48 chromosomes. It also shows that the genes on the chromosomes match up between humans and the great apes. That means a common ancestor (in the same way genetics tests can determine ancestry more recently).

It doesn't show that. It postulates what you said. It does not show that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It doesn't show that. It postulates what you said. It does not show that.

Sorry, it does when one analyzes the genes.

 

[McBell]

It doesn't show that. It postulates what you said. It does not show that.

How do you know?
By what criteria are you rejecting it?

 

[YoursTrue]

How do you know?
By what criteria are you rejecting it

By what criteria are you accepting it? Aside from the position that it was fused, what ape did it come from? One or two apes? Gorillas still remain gorillas, chimps remain chimps. Guess the fusion isn't happening lately. Because--they say--it happened sooo many years ago -- someone, somewhere had their chromosomes fused. (wow and yikes.)

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, a fusion means that some ancestor had 48 chromosomes. Two pairs fused and that gives 46 chromosomes, which is what humans have now.

So that answers the 'good question' of why apes have 48 and humans have 46.

Gorillas are supposed to have come from that "Unknown Common Ancestor" as well as -- humans, chimps, orangutans. That ancestor, however, has not been found.

 

[YoursTrue]

To what end?
It is not like you would know if I got it right or not.

Maybe and maybe not. But at least you can try.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I have a lot of cousins and we don't know who our common 75X Great Grandparents were. They haven't been found. It is so sad that my cousins and I are no longer related.

 

[YoursTrue]

They are in the video. We know the places on the chromosomes where the fusion occurred down to a few base pairs.

I saw the lecturer make that point. What evidence is there, however. Is the evidence that humans have 46 pairs while gorillas have 48? Where's the actual Unknown Common Ancestor from which the so-called evidence of 48 becoming 46 is taken from? Or maybe it was only one ancestor that mated with another with or without a fusion that humans evolved from? (Is that good?)