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The biggest "plot hole" in Genesis...

Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

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Premium Member
Skwim said:
Hmm. I checked the following Bibles and none of them use the word "mankind" in Genesis 1.
New International Version
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
New American Standard Bible
GOD'S WORD ® Translation
King James Version
Douay-Rheims Bible
American King James Version
American Standard Version
Bible in Basic English
Darby Bible Translation
English Revised Version
World English Bible
​
...
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The fact that such effort would be invested in researching Jewish scripture while assiduously avoiding Jewish text is worth noting. :rolleyes:
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
MarkOfCain said:
From NIV:

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Click to expand...


A few things

there is no evidence a deity has ever created anything and Its factual man has evolved.

Mankind is a modern addition, the author/scribe/redacter/compiler is talking about plural deities.

Israelites were polytheistic, and worshipped a family of deities, which have all been depicted as having human form.

drawings have been found of Yahweh and his wife Asherah, and Baal, all in human likeness.


The father deity was always EL, the father of Yahweh, and Baal and other deities not worshipped by Israelites, but Canaanites
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Jayhawker Soule said:
Text reference?
Click to expand...


History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[72] and many other Ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on the cult of the ancestors and the worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[73] The major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_(Canaanite_deity)

The Hebrew/Christian god Yahweh, prior to taking on wholly monotheistic attributes in the 6th century BCE, was a part of the Canaanite pantheon in the pre-Babylonian captivity period. Archeological evidence reveals that during this time period the Israelites were a group of Canaanite people. Yahweh was seen as a war god, and equated with El. Asherah, who was often seen as El's consort, has been described as a consort of Yahweh in numerous inscriptions


Kuntillet Ajrud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


invoking Yahweh, El and Baal, and two include the phrases "Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah."



specific scripture


A Psalm of David.
Ascribe to Yahweh, sons of gods (bênê ’Ēlîm),
Ascribe to Yahweh, glory and strength
Psalm 89:6 (verse 7 in Hebrew) has:
For who in the skies compares to Yahweh,
who can be likened to Yahweh among the sons of gods (bênê ’Ēlîm).
​
 
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Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

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Premium Member
outhouse said:
Jayhawker Soule said:
outhouse said:
The father deity was always EL, the father of Yahweh, and Baal and other deities not worshipped by Israelites, but Canaanites
Click to expand...
Text reference?
Click to expand...
The Hebrew/Christian god Yahweh, prior to taking on wholly monotheistic attributes in the 6th century BCE, was a part of the Canaanite pantheon in the pre-Babylonian captivity period. Archeological evidence reveals that during this time period the Israelites were a group of Canaanite people. Yahweh was seen as a war god, and equated with El.

[emphasis added - JS]
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That must have been embarrassing.

By the way, any references to actual books that you've actually read?

[ Just in case you missed it: 'father of' is not the same as 'equated with' ;) ]
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Jayhawker Soule said:
That must have been embarrassing.

By the way, any references to actual books that you've actually read?

[ Just in case you missed it: 'father of' is not the same as 'equated with' ;) ]
Click to expand...

Emarrassing

No.


Polytheism was well understood, in the multicultural beginnings of judaism
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

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Premium Member
Oh, and how is the claim that "Yahweh was seen as a war god, and equated with El" evidence that El was seen as the father of YHWH?
 
M

MarkOfCain

Member
oldbadger said:
Hello MarkofCain! Welcome.

Yeah! Interesting! Skwim printed off Genesis 1, and the key verses show:-

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea................... etc

It does read (in this translation) as if Man is a term for a whole race of 'men'. And the use of 'third person plural' in 'let them have dominion....' does seem to support your point that God made a whole mass of men, and later took one them, Adam, and placed him in Eden.

Forgive me for saying that I do believe that Genesis is allegory, and that the whole description is in metaphor, but the above point does seem to throw a slightly different angle onto that story.

I like it...... for what that's worth to you.... but if you posted this thread to go into battle with creationists who take it all literally, you'll probably have 'not many' to argue with. You'll just have to be in contentious-agreement with most of us 'metaphor' supporters!

All the best.......
Click to expand...

Thanks badger, I had my suspicions that most on this forum are generally quite "flexible" on their views of scripture regarding its application as a literal historical framework :)

However, this "plot hole" has always bugged me - even as a kid growing up, being subjected to the classic Sunday School teachings, etc.

But as we're seeing in the development of this thread, there's really no "right" viewpoint. Every argument posited basically has to rely on what's written "between the lines".

So basically it's all just fun speculation.

Thanks for chiming in, appreciate it

-MOC
 
M

MarkOfCain

Member
outhouse said:
A few things

there is no evidence a deity has ever created anything and Its factual man has evolved.

That's not what we're debating; your comment is out of left field.

Mankind is a modern addition, the author/scribe/redacter/compiler is talking about plural deities.

Israelites were polytheistic, and worshipped a family of deities, which have all been depicted as having human form.

drawings have been found of Yahweh and his wife Asherah, and Baal, all in human likeness.

The father deity was always EL, the father of Yahweh, and Baal and other deities not worshipped by Israelites, but Canaanites
Click to expand...

That's highly interesting to me. I'm going to research the sources you've listed in a later post on this.

Are these drawings of Yahweh authentic from the period?

Thanks

MOC
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

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Premium Member
MarkOfCain said:
But as we're seeing in the development of this thread, there's really no "right" viewpoint. Every argument posited basically has to rely on what's written "between the lines".
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But some viewpoints are more wrong than others and it helps to actually read all the lines.
 
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